When your lone striker can't get on the ball or hold on to it when he does, that really demoralizes a team. When that striker is your captain, who never yells or gets in your face to motivate you but leads "by example", well, that example permeates to everyone. 75 minutes of that. Then, when your 2nd captain refuses to lock arms with the rest of you during a shootout because he had a bad game, it becomes pretty clear that leadership has been placed in the wrong hands. No team becomes winners if they're not lead by winners. Quieroz just started on the wrong foot in that regard. This new era has started with failure. I don't blame the new guy for not turning a team around in a few months. However, I hope he knows that this game was lost from the get-go by sticking to our captain who just can't pull off anything in this type of scheme against these types of tough teams. And I hope he knows that Colombia will continue to peak out at reaching knockout stages of tournaments if he's not going to step in and make the difficult changes that need to happen...
I think what Yerry Minda did after the PK speaks on what the players are thinking thats why shit like that happens. we are simply not taking the matter seriously
No more Cuadrado or Falcao please thanks for your service If Duvan isnt the man to replace Falcao someone else needs go be he is done. Tho the coaches insistence on Cuadrado is beyond annoying. Cuadrado has no stamina or speed.... why can't the coach see that diving also doesn't work because of VAR
IF we want more defense then put another defensive midfielder but Cuadrado is just a mess. He ran the whole game. I have to give him that but what else? CQ game was not a very good one
This was THE problem in Copa 2015 and the beginning of the last qualifies. In our surprise 2014 everybody celebrated each gol because, let's be honest, after 16 years of no WC, that stuff was worth celebrating. Than we'd see these choreographed dances after scoring gols at the 80th minutes against Bolivia at home. That stupidity, for the most part, seems to have ended. Mina is always going to be Mina the same way that Armero was always Armero. I can't believe these guys played for the shootout half way through the 2nd half only to approach it the way they did. Vidal smiled his a$$ off and got everybody riled up when he scored. Each of the Chileans gave hugs to their GK after scoring. We were a barrel of nerves...
I just spat my drink out. Best post of the night. Thank you for finding a silver lining despite tonight’s defeat.
The good news is that we did not give up a goal during the whole tournament. We have a good core base of players for Qualifying and a bunch of friendlies to experiment in. We also have a Sub23 Tournament we are hosting which can help us find new role players at certain positions and a Copa America we are hosting to tweak things tactically even more and give the fans some good positive morale and vibes if we win both tournaments. The bad news is what many people here expected. With a new manager and new tactics it is difficult to get a true pulse on this team when the pressure squeezes the life out of these players. And this team suffered through many of the same things it usually does under that stress... ...going through goal scoring droughts and not having a clue how to put decent shots on goal. We are just going to have to trust the process and hope the players step up and figure things out.
Homie, you're really reaching with that one. Pre-var, we lost that game by 2 goals. Even while seeing the replays, it took me time to see what was wrong with them. And just like all goals we concede against the top 4 sides in SA, the goals came out of nowhere. Chile cut through us like butter. And that's what's so demoralizing about them. You can see it in this team's face EVERY time it happens. They give up a goal when they're playing well, and they fall apart because of it. The Argentina match was one of the few times where Colombia was on the other side of that. I have no faith in our defense against strong opponents. None. Who knows if Quieroz will even coach this thing. I REALLY hope that he does, but I have my doubts. With the 2020 Copa America, it's unlikely he can coach the actual Olympics. So, we're going to see Reyes... And that Copa we're hosting...F tweaking. We HAVE to win that thing. Anything other than an appearance in the final is an utter failure, imo.
VAR is there for a reason and both calls were spot on. Just like we do not count the goals and penalties that VAR took away from us against Qatar and Paraguay we can't count the ones it took away from Chile. Our defense did what it was supposed to do and should only get better as the cycle goes along. I am not saying he will coach the Olympics. I am saying there may be some players who become role players from that team if they have a great tournament.
Tweaking in the sense that there is not much else that needs to be done schematically to win it. Especially at home.
I see where you are coming from but If we win the tournament but fail to make it to the World Cup that would be more of a failure to me. (Looking at Chile last cycle.) Believe me , winning the Copa would be wonderful but the main objective is to get to the World Cup and make a run in 2022. All I really care about is seeing improvement from the team and having new players fit into their roles by the time the real test comes here. (Qualifying and hopefully another World Cup.)
you were one of the ones who was talking about being champions and chile being old and slow.. talking about "expectations"
I was trying to be optimistic. I did not say we were going to be champions though. I did allude to it being there for the taking and that the players had to go out there and do their job. They obviously did not and we are back to square one.
If we're going to look big picture, then let's really look at things from the big picture. Colombia has become a team that's a favorite to qualify to knockout stages of every tournament they're in. Yes, the SA qualifiers are an entirely different animal, but failing to qualify to Qatar would not just a colossal failure but 10 steps backward. Qualification is priority #1, but it's time we move above that. We saw yesterday, just as we saw in the last world cup, in the Centenario, and in CA '15, just how much Colombia struggles when we face a difficult opponent in matches where everything is on the line. Colombia will not be a serious contender for Qatar 2022 if we're incapable of reaching the final of a tournament we're hosting. It's as simple as that. We've only beaten a Suarez-less Uruguay and Peru on penalties in knockout rounds in the last 6 tournaments we've been in, reaching the knockout stages in ALL of them.
It is not as simple as that. It may depend on how serious we take the Copa and what players we choose for the Copa. Yes, more than likely we will have our best team since we are hosting. But I would not be surprised at all if Queiroz just says screw it, qualifying is priority so maybe I should rest some players the summer of 2020. That remains to be seen. What happens in 2020 could have no relation to how we do in 2022.
The fed wouldn't sign up for it if that was the case. We pressured to host the final for a reason, too. We took the Centenario seriously, smack dab in the middle of qualifiers with Pekerman's process already well established. After this start, hosting, and with only 2 qualifying matches to Quieroz' name, you can be damn sure the fed will make him take this thing seriously, too. Regardless, whether we go with the A-squad or not (Quieroz would be silly not to try and gather data with the little time he's had at the helm), this is THE golden opportunity to improve the mentality most of us are acknowledging as being the main issue with Colombia. Barring a confrontation with a peerless opponent (think of Messi's Argentina in sub 20 2005), bowing out of our own tournament without winning at least one, preferably 2, knockout match pretty much ensures we're going to get a repeat of last night and of our match against England if we get to Qatar. Especially if, and this is more likely, the other teams don't take Copa 2020 too seriously...
The point is there is little to no correlation between 2020 Copa and the 2022 World Cup. Look at the squad from 2016 and compare it to 2018 World Cup. You say we took the Centenario seriously and yes, we kind of did but we also had players on that squad that had no business being on that team and some players who were nowhere near the 2018 World Cup in Russia. The same will probably happen this time around. And if there is a player who needs some rest I think they will error on the side of caution and think about the big picture.
Just ask Chile about correlation between 15/16 CA and 18 World Cup. Even we won 01 CA and didn’t go to 02 WC. For the 16 CA, we took our best squad. There wasn’t any real omissions from that team if memory serves. Sure falcao sat out of 16CA, but he was rock bottom in terms of injuries and club form/fitness. We have taken our best possible teams to 15/16/19 CA. End of day we gotta trust the process and give the benefit that CQ will start leaning on Duvan to be a 90 minute guy up front and hope guys like Diaz/Roger continue to develop at the club level and don’t turn into the next Marlos. And we need to look for depth options for RB and LB. on the whole I liked Tesillo but he is a CB primarily - will be nice to see Fabra back in mix or find a youth prospect with 2012 Armero lungs. As for Medina - Thanks for the effort but the heart just isn’t there. Sadly he’s probably better than most of other options.
Muriel being left off was not a head scratcher but it was something I was shaking my head to when I saw someone like Dayro being given a chance. The core was solid but you look at the benchers and say were those guys really good enough Rufay? F. Aguilar? bleh. And Roger was not ready back then either.
This and hope that he finds players that fit into his system the best. Part of the reason why I emphasize that the Sub23 is important in finding some of those guys. We also don't know who is going to come out of the blue and help us win. Everyone here thought that JuanFer was going to be a Reggaeton singer in 2016 and he eventually became our best player in the World Cup. Nobody really knew about Davinson Sanchez around here other than people following the Libertadores or die hard Nacional fans and he became our starting CB. Let's see how it plays out. IT is a marathon, not a sprint as they say.
Mentality, Homie. There is a correlation. We played like we did against Chile last night because of how we've played against Chile several times in the recent past. We played like we did against Chile because of how we've played against SEVERAL other opponents who score on us early on. There is a very clear difference between Brazil, Argentina, and Uruguay and the rest of us. Honestly, I'd put Chile in the pot above us despite us qualifying ahead of them the last time around. Brazil and Argentina have some of the best players in the world, so I'd rather not focus on them. Let's talk about Uruguay. What is it that makes Uruguay better than us? They have a MUCH smaller pool of players. A far inferior league. A couple genuine stars, but that's about it. Mentality, dude. They fight until the last minute in every match. What gives them that mentality? History. Very few of these guys were there when they went to the semis in 2010. None of them, obviously, are around from when they were a world power in the 30s. But those dudes play with pride and a fierceness that only comes from a history of having played that way. Colombia will always be talented losers until we start winning things. The players themselves do not believe they can beat the toughest opponents. Why? Because that's the way it's always been. Not for want of talent do we suck. We suck because we can't beat anybody we're not favored to beat when things are on the line. We can't simply because we haven't. Really, every tournament is a chance to turn things around. CA 2020 is a golden chance. If we go out on our home soil playing like we did last night, that same thing will happen in the next tournament. Sure, some players wont be there in Qatar. Most won't be in whatever WC comes afterward. But every player for the next 15+ years will be watching the tournament on their TV sets. When you grow up thinking you're mediocrity, you end up becoming mediocrity. Everything correlates.
The winning mentality does not magically come by winning a Copa America. I agree it can help if we win but it could be useless too just like it was useless for Chile. The mentality can come gradually as the team becomes more accustom to the manager's tactics and finding ways to score. And by finding players that fit into the system the best which could take a couple cycles for all I know.
We have been eliminated in three of the last four tournaments via penalties. I don't think that is ALL mentality. Sometimes it is just the way the ball bounces. But other than maybe last night we were not favored in any of those elimination matches. The better team advanced each time and last night we might have been favored but Chile played like the better team. Just the way it goes.
Useless? How so?? Are you saying the only thing that matters in the world is qualifying to the WC? Imagine Chile wins this tournament. You would trade 3 successive CA titles for our round of 16 elimination against England? I wouldn't. No way.
If it means Chile misses 2022 yes, useless. They are no guarantee to make it to the next World Cup at all.