College Rules Changes

Discussion in 'Referee' started by kevbrunton, Mar 6, 2003.

  1. kevbrunton

    kevbrunton New Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Edwardsburg, MI
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Several rules changes were put in place in college soccer earlier this week. The meeting was apparently Feb 4-7, but the announcement was just posted on the NCAA web site on March 3rd.

    http://www.ncaa.org/news/2003/20030303/awide/4005n12.html

    Here's the keys...

    1) Zero tolerance for language. Any player who uses profane, offensive, insulting, vulgar or abusive language or gestures will receive a red card and will be ejected from the game.

    2) No reentry in any period. In response to the membership and in an effort to improve the flow of the game, lessen game times and promote student-athlete safety, the committee voted to allow no reentry in any period of the game.

    3) Much less clock stoppage. In conjunction with the substitution change and in response to the annual rules survey, the clock will not be stopped except for during the last five minutes of the second period when a substitute is beckoned on the field by a referee.

    There are a few other items that are clarifications or minor modifications, but those are the big changes.
     
  2. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    So, no re-entry. Are there any limits to the number of subs? I didn't find anything on that issue when I read it, though my assistant isn't back with coffee yet.

    Glad to see the language rule being clarified. I watched a match last year in which a player spent about twenty seconds yelling at the ref things like "you suck! you're the worst ref I've ever seen..." etc... and then another match a week later in which a player was booked for saying "oh sh.." after making a bad cross. A little consistancy might help here.
     
  3. kevbrunton

    kevbrunton New Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Edwardsburg, MI
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok, here's my comments on these changes.

    1) I hate it that they spell this out like that. The year before last they made a similar statement at the IHSAA rules interpretation meeting that all coaches and referees must go to at the beginning of the high school season. Then for the first 3rd of the season, every time a player would say damn or sh!t or something in reaction to a miss or anything, the coaches would be hollering -- that's a red card, zero tolerance, yada yada. So get ready to hear that in the college games this fall.

    2) I like this one.

    3) I also like this one -- I just got college certified this past weekend and when we were talking as a group at one break, one referee was telling about a situation where he had a coach with 30 players on the roster. It appeared that all were going to play in the first half because 30 minutes in he had already used 24. The ref said it took 86 minutes to play that first half.

    The one question I have is it states "the clock will not be stopped except for during the last five minutes of the second period when a substitute is beckoned on the field". So does that mean that is the ONLY exception -- i.e., no stoppage for goals, penalty kicks, injuries, etc? Or are they saying that is the only time it would be stopped for substitutions? That's not clear to me.
     
  4. kevbrunton

    kevbrunton New Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Edwardsburg, MI
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't know about the number of subs. Obviously these changes will have to be put into language and all the details will be put together when they come out with the actual rules changes for the referees this summer.

    I don't disagree that some of the language needs cleaned up. I just think there's a better way to deal with it than to publicly state that any language will be a red card. The problem is that what is offensive to one person isn't offensive to another. It'll be interesting to see how it works out in implementation.
     
  5. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I agree with you, too. I mean, the player who got booked for "ah, sh..." was only audible to me because I was standing maybe 20 feet away, and he was only booked because the Ref's assistant waved his flag and called over the center guy. Totally silly.

    Personally, I think that audible cursing (say, after a bad pass or something) should be discouraged with a word of warning, and any cursing directed at another player or an official should be bookable. But it's always going to be a judgment call.
     
  6. GoatBoy

    GoatBoy Member

    Apr 1, 2001
    Austin
    Can someone clarify the re-entry rule? Does that mean no re-entry at all, or just no re-entry in the same period the player came off? If it's the latter, then isn't that just a return to the rule of a couple years ago, where a player leaving in the first half could only return in the second?

    I have to say I don't like the foul language rule. Last weekend I watched a couple of women's college spring games, and there were three or four audible "oh, sh!t"s on bad passes or clearances. IMO a send off for this is silly. Now how does the ref make a distinction between incidental cursing upon making a poor play, and abusive language directed at someone?
     
  7. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    From the article:

    "As Bobb mentioned, the committee did address the issue of substitution, another longstanding point of contention in the soccer community. In response to the membership and in an effort to improve the flow of the game, lessen game times and promote student-athlete safety, the committee voted to allow no reentry in any period of the game. Appealing to the "purist" aspect of soccer, committee members believe this change will align the college game more with the world game while still allowing large numbers of participants and allowing coaches the freedom to do their job"
     
  8. kevbrunton

    kevbrunton New Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Edwardsburg, MI
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The old rule before last year was this...

    If you left in the first half, no re-entry in that half. In the second half, you COULD re-enter 1 time. In overtime periods, no re-entry within a period. If you left in OT period one, you could come back in OT period 2, etc.

    Then last year, they changed it so that you had a single re-entry in either half -- but still no re-entry in OT periods.

    Now it's no re-entry at all within any period. So in one year they moved from some restricitions to fewer restrictions and then the next year went to more restrictions than the original.

    Just imagine it like this -- if you had 2 players at every position and rotated them the maximum number of times...

    Under the 2001 system, you could have 4 substitutions per position.

    In the first half, A starts and B comes on for A (1 stoppage).
    In the second half, A starts, B comes on, then A returns and then B returns (3 more stoppages).

    Under the 2002 system, you could have 6 substitutions per position -- just do the second half above twice -- so that's 6 stoppages. Under this system, just imagine doing this for a handful of positions -- you can easily have 10 to 20 stoppages per team in each half.

    Under the 2003 system, you'd have at most 2 substitutions per position. This combined with the fact that the clock only stops in the last 5 minutes of the game, will drastically cut down on how long it takes to get a game in.

    This new rule will bring some strategy back to substitutions.
     
  9. monster

    monster Member

    Oct 19, 1999
    Hanover, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe I'm just stupid, but I'm confused about re-entry.

    Does this mean, you leave the game and you're done for the day regardless of when you leave?
     
  10. kevbrunton

    kevbrunton New Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Edwardsburg, MI
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No.

    The change is no re-entry within the same period. If you leave the game in the first half, you cannot return in the first half. But you can return in the 2nd half. Likewise, if you leave in the 2nd half, you wouldn't be able to return unless the game goes into overtime. If you've left in the 2nd half and it goes into OT, you'd be able to come back during OT.
     
  11. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    That's not how I'm reading it. But I have to admit, the part I underlined above is more ambiguous than I thought. I mean, I assumed "in any period" meant a player could not re-enter... period. Otherwise I would think they would use the word "same" like you do.
     
  12. Flying Weasel

    Flying Weasel Member

    Mar 22, 2001
    Harrisburg, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually I thought that if they had meant no re-entry at all, they wouldn't have even used the term "period" or the phrase "in any period." They could have just said "no re-entry in the game."

    By saying "no re-entry in any period", I think they were distinguishing it from re-entry in the 1st period (half) only or the 2nd period only or in each/both periods.

    I believe they mean no re-entry in the 1st half, no re-entry in the 2nd half, etc. Just my take on it. Otherwise, it's a very radical change, and I just don't see the NCAA making such a big jump all at once, if ever.
     
  13. Keith

    Keith New Member

    Jan 3, 2000
    Denver, Colorado
    Zero tolerance laws/rules are about control. Control to take away the control or decison from the judge or referee because they're afraid someone might escape punishment. The U.S. Supreme Court just approved California's "three strikes" zero tolerance laws. Guy who stole some children's video tame for his kids, got 50 years. Justice is served.

    The example about a player abusing a referee, and maybe getting off or a caution compared to the player who says "oh, sh-t" after a bad cross and automatically getting a red. . is what we're talking about. We're not the "language police" and this isnt' a vacuum from reality.
     
  14. terp fan

    terp fan New Member

    Nov 21, 2000
    YES

    I agree with this explanation of the new rule. Simply, no reentry within a period and each period is a separate event.
     
  15. Flying Weasel

    Flying Weasel Member

    Mar 22, 2001
    Harrisburg, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    SoccerAmerica.com
    COLLEGE: NCAA bans reentry in any period
    3/13/2003 4:25:00 PM
    http://www.socceramerica.com/article.asp?Art_ID=562133011
    Just some confirmation as to the correct interpretation of the rule.
     
  16. kevbrunton

    kevbrunton New Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Edwardsburg, MI
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually regarding the bolded part -- this isn't really true. In the past, the coach could use a substitution to stop or change the momentum, but they could not use it to kill the clock because the clock was stopped during substitutions.

    Under the new rules, except for the last 5 minutes of the game (and one would presume OT as well), the clock will NOT stop during substitutions. So now a coach CAN use substitutions to kill the clock at least down to the last 5 minutes of the game.

    As far as the comment about "mass substitutions", I'm not sure what they mean by that. If they mean it will cut down on the total number of substitutions, yes it will. But if they mean that the coach would not be able to do something like sub 10 players at once, that would still be allowed based upon how I read it.
     
  17. XYZ

    XYZ New Member

    Apr 16, 2000
    Big Cat Country
    Exactly. As it was last year, coaches couldn't manipulate the clock because the clock stopped. Now the NCAA is giving coaches the ability to run time off the clock once again. They're going back to the way things were just a few years ago. (It does seem that almost any rule change the NCAA makes is reversed within a couple of years, often the very next year.)
    I think they're leaving the mass sub rule the same. According to NCAA rules, a team cannot sub more than eleven players at one time. (The most I think I have ever seen is 10 at once although, counting players from both teams, I've seen more than 10 at once.)

    Last year the NCAA went from allowing a zillion subs to allowing a zillion and a half, and now they're reversing that (after only one season), and will only be allowing about three quarters of a zillion subs next year. A significant number of teams have rosters of 30 or more. If they sub only field players, they can still make 20 subs per half if they want - that's 40 subs in a 90 minute game - counting both teams that's, theoretically, 80 subs in 90 minutes - although, admittedly, that's considerably fewer subs than were allowed last year.

    The change will cut down on the subs a lot. Coaches will not be able to rest their better players midway through a half because the players won't be allowed to return in that half.

    Based on their track record, the NCAA will probably change the rule back again next year.
     
  18. kevbrunton

    kevbrunton New Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Edwardsburg, MI
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think that even the NCAA has a rule forbidding subbing more than 11 players at a time. That'd be kind of like making it illegal to drive with 3 hands on the wheel. :)
     

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