Cobi and Arena - Connolly

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Nutmeg, Oct 21, 2002.

  1. Nutmeg

    Nutmeg Member+

    Aug 24, 1999
    Monkeys

    This is a great article, and very indicative of the respect Arena gets from his players.
     
  2. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    I agree. It also shows the kind of, for lack of a better term, New York street bravado, that Arena uses to motivate players. I'm sure catching hell for the Galaxy's failures made Cobi bust his ass in practice.
     
  3. lmorin

    lmorin Member+

    Mar 29, 2000
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The "Monkey" article is nice and poignant. It also provokes a question concerning relative strength of players. I have not been a Cobi supporter (at least as a USMNT starter) for years, but his performance in the MLS Cup was outstanding, particularly as the game wore on. In contrast, Steve Ralston could not make an impact. He controlled the ball well, generally did not get stripped, and hit some nice crosses when given the opportunity. But the contrast between his play and that of Cobi's was the difference in the game. Cobi had a tremendous impact on the game because of his unremitting and escalating pressure on the Galaxy defense. This created repeated turmoil in the Rev defense that was bound to contribute, directly or indirectly, to a goal in OT. In the meantime, Ralston faded from the picture and lost most of his involvement. More important, it seemed to me that he never had the extra pizzazz that is so obvious in D. Beasley and was also a trademark of the younger Cobi. He failed to cause persistent worry among all the Galaxy defenders (as opposed to only his marker), as Cobi did. This has important ramifications for Ralston's USMNT aspirations. He needs something extra to win a spot there and, to me at least, he doesn't quite have it, although he is a very strong MLS player.
     
  4. Jambon

    Jambon Member

    Mar 3, 2000
    Austin, TX
    I wouldn't be so hard on Ralston.

    Remember that LA was attacking with Ruiz, Jones, Cienfuegos, Elliot, Hendrickson, Vagenas, Victorine and Marshall.

    NE had Twellman and Ralston.

    It's easy to make a guy look bad when you know that he's the only one on the team (Twellman excepted) capable of doing anything. Shut down two guys and you've shut down the entire NE attack.

    Say what you want about his national team prospects, Ralston is the best right mid in the league, and does much more for his MLS team than many of the players on our nats squad do for theirs.
     
  5. stopper4

    stopper4 Member

    Jan 24, 2000
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Steve Ralston...........

    Have you seen Ben Olsen's form lately? I'm not sure Ralston is the best right mid in the Eastern conference.
     
  6. Topo

    Topo Member

    Feb 15, 2001
    Re: Steve Ralston...........

    That's what I was going to say.
     
  7. Karl K

    Karl K Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    Suburban Chicago
    OK, everybody, copy the above post, and save it the next time you want to slam a....McBride....or an Armas....or a Cobi.

    Cobi is not the most technically accomplished player in US Soccer; compare Ralston's beautiful bending balls to Cobi's corners.

    Yet, this post hits the nail right on the head. To play at the national team level, you must create (yes, Ty's phrase IS applicable) HAVOC out there. You must go 100 miles an hour, you must be extremely strong, incredibly fit, busting your gut every second.

    Whether you call it work rate, hustle, or whatever, you must play completely out of your mind ALL the time, on both sides of the ball. You must view every moment in the game as crucial, there must be no give up or let up; you must play as though the next moment were going to be the DEFINING moment of the game.

    When you look at a national team roster, and you are tempted to ask "Why is Player X there? Player Y is just SO much better/athletic/faster/technically skilled/graceful/dribbles better/scores more" ....and yada yada yada.... refer back to the post quoted above.
     
  8. StingRay37

    StingRay37 Member

    Dec 4, 2000
    North Carolina
    This still leaves no explination for agoos.
     
  9. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    Re: Steve Ralston...........

    Not enough games (you could chalk that up to enthusiasm and adrenaline about being back). You have to give it Ralston for consistency. Frankly, there are precious few players in the league at any position who have been as consistent as Ralston has over the years.
     
  10. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    I'm willing to do this. I'll take half pay.
     
  11. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Twellman sucked on Sunday, which partly explains why people think Ralston did poorly. Ralston gave him several opportunities.
     
  12. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    It really doesn't explain much except what Arena values. Nor does it address the issue that some players might play worse on high gear for 90 straight minutes.
     
  13. Noah Dahl

    Noah Dahl New Member

    Nov 1, 2001
    Pottersville

    And how 'bout if we want to criticize REYNA? Insert Claudio into this definition of a National Team player, then try not to laugh.

    I remember a couple of games where Claudio was manic - like the Iran friendly. I also remember him giving up and allowing Korean and German strikers go one on one to goal - in the World Cup. Oh, because he had so heroically "given it his all" and had "nothing in the tank"? To this I respond in classic Bigoccer fashion: Pleeze.

    Funny thing is, regardless of whether (A) his tank was empty or (B) he simply chose NOT to bust his gut - Bruce still wanted him out there.

    And come to think of it, when Bruce took over the team, didn't he strip the captain's band from Cobi and hand it straight to Reyna? Hmm.

    So maybe Brian McBride does not offer the sole example of a potential Nat.
     
  14. KAESO

    KAESO New Member

    Nov 5, 2000
    San Gabriel Valley
    I'm glad I'm not the only that's never been impressed with Claudio Reyna's work rate. If that's what you're saying, if not then I still stand by my statement.
     
  15. Noah Dahl

    Noah Dahl New Member

    Nov 1, 2001
    Pottersville
    Claudi has a number of qualities which impress me and a number of qualities which do not.

    But try saying that around here and Arena sycophants will quote Arena sycophants to say you're an idiot.

    (and they'll think they're really clever about it.)
     
  16. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Cobi

    Well, yes. But Cobi can be pretty tricky with the ball at his feet. In the stretches of the MLS Cup that I saw, Cobi was easily the best player on the field at beating the defender 1 vs. 1. Not just by running by a guy in the open field, but in traffic.

    Guess what I'm saying is that I'm a bit tired of the notion that Cobi is a technical hack. He is much more technically accomplished than he was a few years back, and at times shows flashes of real skill. If you took his current abilities and put them into a 22 year old body, you'd have a heck of a prospect.

    I don't want to overstate things; for the most of the past year, Cobi in an international match was not a pretty sight. But he has become much more than just a fast guy with a high work rate, and for that we should all give him some credit.
     
  17. Noah Dahl

    Noah Dahl New Member

    Nov 1, 2001
    Pottersville
    Re: Cobi

    Amen brother. In my view, over seven seasons he's been MLS's best player, though Ralston is up there.

    And he wasn't with the national team just to kill the clock. That's a hackneyed misrepresentation from people who never wanted to give Cobi the respect he deserves.
     
  18. Karl K

    Karl K Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    Suburban Chicago
    General responses.

    Never said, nor meant to imply, that Cobi is a technical "hack." I said he wasn't the most "technically accomplished" player in US Soccer. Richard Mulrooney has better technique; Cobi is a better player.

    Which leads me to the second point. Technique alone is NOT enough. Speed is NOT enough. MLS goal scoring is NOT enough. Being able to beat guys off the dribble in MLS is NOT enough. Athleticism and gracefulness is NOT enough. All the things that make the misinformed and naive posters around here palpitate with ecstasy over the Jeff Cunningham's or Jason Kreis' of the world are --- REPEAT --- NOT ENOUGH!!!

    At the same time, work rate and fitness, heart and dedication and desire and smarts are NOT enough. But give me the less technically accomplished guy -- not the "hack" -- over the smooth and silky and speedy guy -- if that less technically accomplished guy has all of the work rate/fitness/smarts/heart qualities, more than the smooth operator, ANY day of the week.

    And this dissing of Reyna, not being "impressed with his work rate." Yes, Noah, about this you ARE an idiot.

    Do you guys know ANYTHING about soccer?? Go back and watch the Germany tape where deep in the second half, with the game still on the line and watch Reyna make a 35 yard full sprint out defensive recovery run to blunt an attack when he is the ONLY guy who can do it.

    The incapacity to be "impressed" with Reyna is the complete triumph of ignorance and the total failure of understanding.
     
  19. Chester FC

    Chester FC New Member

    Jul 19, 2001
    I always thought the best teams have the ability to play at a number of speeds; fast, slow, patient, absorbing pressure, frantic (when need be) etc.

    One day relatively soon, the USMT will be sufficiently stocked with quality players that they will have the ability to shift gears several times during the course of a game. I'm predicting that the team will corner this particular corner when the present U-17s back up the bulk of the team -- say 2010 or 2014.
     
  20. Short Corner

    Short Corner Member

    Jun 28, 2001
    Amen.

    I do not like soccer stats nearly as much as BenReilly, but one thing services like Match Analysis and Opta are useful for is checking your impressions on who works. Reyna has always outworked his teammates, whereever he plays. He shows for the ball more often, covers more ground, and makes more defensive plays. Check Sunderland's Opta stats for things like tackles: Reyna is far and away the leader.

    Or, if you don't believe stats, read the Sunderland bulletin boards. Everyone agrees that Reyna's workrate is outstanding. There are disagreements on whether Reyna is an attacking mid or a defensive mid, and whether he is their best, or second or third best player, but no disagreements that he "covers every blade of grass on the pitch".

    Of course, you could just watch Reyna play for the USMNT, but that assumes you have eyes and can see.
     
  21. ReynaFan

    ReynaFan Member

    Sep 30, 1999
    Brentwood, TN
    Re: Re: Steve Ralston...........

    In reference to Ben Olsen...
    This almost implies he wasn't a player before his injury. Don't forget...He had won the starting job at right mid and would've started every match in the WC had he been healthy. Any good form after being 100% fit shouldn't surprise anyone. He'll be back in the Bruce's plans soon enough, and I'm glad for that.
     
  22. Kaiser

    Kaiser New Member

    Nov 12, 2000
    dark side of the moo
    I doubt Ralston will be on the roster in Germany 2006. He's 28 yrs old.(?) And I don't think Steve has that intangible aggresiveness that Cobi has. On the pitch Cobi's a baby tiger and Ralston's a pu$$y.
     
  23. Nutmeg

    Nutmeg Member+

    Aug 24, 1999
    Re: Re: Re: Steve Ralston...........

    I don't remember it that way. The starting job hadn't been locked up by anyone at that point, and Sanneh was still playing the majority of his minutes there.

    Olsen probably would have made a run, but nothing was solidified.
     
  24. Noah Dahl

    Noah Dahl New Member

    Nov 1, 2001
    Pottersville
    You know KK, I nailed you on the last post and I'll nail you on this one - but reading this I don't know why I bother. It's not like you're going to start editing yourself for length, circular arguments, grandiose diction or sophomoric insults.

    See above.

    Do you guys know ANYTHING about soccer?

    ...

    Go back and watch the Germany tape where deep in the second half, with the game still on the line and watch Reyna make a 35 yard full sprint out defensive recovery run to blunt an attack when he is the ONLY guy who can do it.

    Why I should go through the motions of dragging out the tape when I know this is going nowhere, I don't know. Anyway... I recall Reyna having a GREAT game, but in the end he'd shot his wad and let other players overlap him while he hung back. After the great play you depict, Reyna let a guy go straight to goal, one one one against Friedel, while he stood there and watched. At this point Reyna looked like he knew the game was over, and he was okay with going down 2-0. He did the same thing against S Korea after losing a tussle on the right side. I think fitness was an issue, and maybe desire. Regardless - these examples show Reyna does not meet YOUR standards (not mine, yours) as stated here:

    To play at the national team level, you must create (yes, Ty's phrase IS applicable) HAVOC out there. You must go 100 miles an hour, you must be extremely strong, incredibly fit, busting your gut every second.

    Whether you call it work rate, hustle, or whatever, you must play completely out of your mind ALL the time, on both sides of the ball. You must view every moment in the game as crucial, there must be no give up or let up; you must play as though the next moment were going to be the DEFINING moment of the game.


    Inspiring stuff Karl. Too bad even you don't believe it. The biggest trouble I have with grand, blanket philosophies - like you try to establish for soccer - is that the philosophers are too reluctant to go back to the drawing board.

    The incapacity to be "impressed" with Reyna is the complete triumph of ignorance and the total failure of understanding.

    Funny, my previous, three sentence post began like this:
    Claudi has a number of qualities which impress me...

    But why should we piddle with such minor concerns when Darkness has this day won its eternal battle with Light, and I, I am it's unwitting herald!

    ...complete triumph of ignorance and the total failure of understanding.

    Oh, woe! Woe and more woe is our fate!
     
  25. lmorin

    lmorin Member+

    Mar 29, 2000
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    KK said it right, but his sentences reduce to this: to be an acceptable USMNT player these days, you have to be exceptional at nearly all facets of the game.

    "All facets of the game" includes the intangibles such has 'desire,' 'heart' or 'motivation,' and the more obvious such as speed, endurance and error rate. If a player is weaker in one category, it can be made up, to some degree, by excellence in another. Bursts of speed (DMB), endurance and tenacity (Heydude), or unexpected playmaking (LD). The Peles of the game are near the top of many categories. At the same time, a player can be at the top of the heap virtually across the board, but a severe deficit in one category will kill his opportunity. Maybe it's ankle sensitivity for Olsen. If I recall, we held our collective breaths waiting to here whether or not injury-proneness would keep JOB out of the WC picture. Same with CR. Then, on top of all the above come other intangibles such as getting along with team and coach, and being able to play well in combination with one's mates on the field at the same time. When everything is summed, the balancing act of the selection process is really quite remarkable. More credit to the coaches who can do it well. Hail BA and his natural successor, BB.!
     

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