http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/03/21/willing/index.html Article about the coalition of the Willing and Uninformed. And just how willing are even the ones who don't say the invasion is illegitimate? Here's a hint. (Rossin is the US ambassador to Croatia.) IOW, we're threatening nations because they won't put their name on our list. I wonder if the Bush fundraising team directed this strategy.
Ah. Now I understand why Rove sits in on cabinet-level meetings...and why Powell won't meet with Mr. Bush while Rove is in the room...
Both of you are being pathetic. At some point, you have to stop making a public fool of yourselves. I wonder how vociferious your opinions would be if you did not need to hide behind a keyborad. I say this both to you as a friend and fellow American. You both need to take a long look in the mirrow. Our countrymen are at WAR, or maybe that fact does not have any affect with you? Have either of you have absolutely no shame at all?
A friend in soccer who is trying to point out that your closemindedness is obscuring your better long term judgment! Friends will do that on occasions.
I might suggest that after 12 years, it is Chirac (and given his history, well documented, with Saddam) and Shroeder who are closed minded. A lot you guys are writing a LOT of checks with your posts that you will not be able to cash... Memories last, your credibility may not!
Its posts like this that simply and elegantly elucidate the clear gap between two Types of Americas. One you live in, the other I live for. By the way, why don't you place your DD-214 next to mine, and we'll swap stories about being on active duty, taking oaths, and standing posts... Hide my ass... Our countrymen - and women - are conducting armed conflict. I don't want them there, period. It is wrong, not just in my view, but in my heart and soul. It affects me tremendously. You've supported a weak-kneed so-called president that has bowed to the fear of 9/11, given the nation to the right-wing cabal, and sent my cousin and 250,000 other young people to fight, kill and die when a plethora of other options had lay between doing nothing and "war"...where is YOUR shame? My position before shots were fired would have been as weak as Bush is as a man were I to abdicate it after shots were fired...I don't get that logic: "Argue all you want before war, but once we start killing, we all need to just 'support the troops'." This is foolishness; anyone who embraces the notion that Americans of conscience have a duty in wartime to be quiet is a fool, and deserves the ignominy to which America is sentencing herself. YOU need to stop hiding behind your keyboard, your fascist accusations, and your soon-to-be-shattered world view, and go see what war does to people. It must be a last option of self-defense, period. Do you really think that the majority of the world is outraged becasue, given the coverage of this whole thing since 9/11, they just don;t "get it?" Bull. Maybe they get it entirely too well. The only ones pathetic around here are you and those that support this neo-fascist view...
OK, fine, I'll play it straight. My post is, mostly, clips from a news article recounting facts. These facts all relate to the overarching fact that the administration is lying to us about the coalition. From this fact, and the fact of all the lies the Bushies told us in the run-up to the war, and the fact that the world is predominantly against us, and has good reasons for being so, and the fact that even if you buy the Bushies' latest, greatest casus belli, there are other hotspots in the world where we'd get more humanitarian bang for the buck, and the fact that we completely f****** up our standing in the world, and several other facts I wont list because you're probably already bored with this paragraph (in fact, you're probably not reading it), From all of these facts I have the opinion that this war is a bad idea. Many, many posters here think it goes the other way around. You're supposed to have an opinion based on your political viewpoint, and then you go searching for the facts to back up what you believe. On the war issue, the hawks have taken it like a prag in OZ. And that's because, time after time after time, the doves bring up facts, and the hawks change the subject. There's a reason the liberals condescend to the conservatives (Colin and TWUB and one or two others excepted.) For whatever reason, probably listening to the talk radio echo chamber too much, the conservatives here are incapable of building and defending an argument. Their response is either the ad hominem attack, or bringing up Monica, or making a smart ass quip in an attempt to derail the thread. Well, here it is. A thread on one of the facts we doves keep injecting into the argument. The hawks keep dittoing about how the world is with us in other threads. So let's keep it all on this one thread. Bush and his minions are godd***** liars. This thread is illustration of another one of their lies. Let's all have fun with. And, if it really works out, maybe there will be a meaningful give and take and all of us, from all points of the spectrum, can gain a more nuanced view of the issue. But I'll still be right.
Nah, it really doesn't. Many years from now, when you're on your deathbed, you won't give this war even a second's thought. OTOH, Superdave will be fantasizing about the What IF? of a President Gore.
Dave, of the contries you mentioned, only Eritrea was on the list of 30 countries released by the government, and your quote admits that they are backing us, they just have "no involvement"--perhaps because what scarce resources they have are committed to defending their borders? The other countries aren't on the list, so why is it suprising that they don't support us? Alex
Superdave... How is it that you know soooo much more than everyone else, that you are given this keen insight that Bush, Powell, and the entire Executive Branch of government is lying and engage in this overwhelming conspiracy. 45 governments have lended support. Many others are supporting us quietly and effectively.... Were you aware that we have troops using Jordan as a base of operations? Bet you diidn't. Why would you stand with China, Cuba, France, Gemany, Russia, Iran, and North Korea, and agaisnt your own country is simply beyond me and a lot of others...
Could anyone please give a link to the list of the countries of the "coalition of the willing"? Thanks. @ USAsoccer Why should superdave be with Bush if it is not what he believes in? I think this is a legitamite question. domingo
Legitimate questions deserve answers... I'm not suggesting he should...but it is one of degree. Superdave continues to rant about decisions long sense past. It like arguing about the results of a game that has long sense been played and lost. After a while, you have to get over it and move on. At this point, we are at war, and OUR countrymen are in the field of battle. THEY DESERVE OUR SUPPORT.... "It's the soldier, not the campus organizer, who's given us freedom to demonstrate. "It's the soldier, not the reporter, who's given us freedom of the press. "It's the soldier, not the poet, who's given us freedom of speech. "It's the soldier, who serves under the flag, who defends the protesters' right to burn the flag. "Isn't it time now to demonstrate that we support our troops? "Were it not for the brave, there'd be no land of the free."
Alex, you sublime, perfect idiot. Read the article, and it will all be clear. Ummm, the Marshall Islands? Micronesia? Is this a Daily Show skit or reality? Anyway.... If you had even READ MY POST, you'd see that what I clipped noted that Portugal had been added. Not even the link, but THE POST!!! I guess Croatia went from New Europe to Old Europe there. Alex, why do you think I provide the link? It's so you, dear reader, can read what I read, and judge for yourself. I'll hold your hand to lead you to the truth, but you're too heavy to carry. I don't post to "win," I'm not trying to trick you. I post to inform, and provoke thoughtful responses from the other side. After the several bitch slappings I've given you the last few days, you should have learned by now. How many times have you questioned something I wrote, as if I was pulling an Ari, when a simple click on the link would let you know that, no, superdave isn't trying to trick you, he's playing it straight. There's a reason the liberals here condescend to the conservatives. We're smart. You're not.
Nobody here has said anything against the troops. Their problem is with the people who sent the troops into conflict. But I guess it's easier for you if you think everybody who disagrees with the president is unpatriotic and hates the soldiers.
Excuse my English please: I believe that the US fought alot of legitamite wars (e.g. Civil War, WW I and II) and I thank the US for freeing Europe and my home country. I´ve always been defending America against others (last Gulf War). But I believe in this case right know it is wrong to fight this war. You have a glorious tradition in the US, and I don´t want to attack your troops, but one shouldn´t stop argueing or discussing when there is war. And to other users here (eric d or so): I ´d like to discuss, don´t call me Adolf or something, that´s not a basis. my opinion domingo