Coaching Philosophies and the Gregg Berhalter System

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Susaeta, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Of course it is. But he still implemented it.

    It's so tremendously hard to some of you to give even the most basic of credit. No one said that it was a Herculean effort where he trained our players from youth.

    It's coaching. It's mostly all the players.
     
  2. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I can agree that it is unfair if people are not acknowledging what he has done and deserves credit for. We've seen enough arguing why he should not have the job, but what are the real positives? What has he done that people are ignoring? He is not responsible for a new generation of players appearing, this happens outside the control of a national team coach for good or ill. So, what has he done to make them better as a team?

    He's playing a fairly standard formation with a bit of variation in how much or how little we press and play out of the back. His initial blueprint with the right back sliding into midfield a ton and the deep playmaker was scrapped so he did change up when things weren't working. Not much has happened in setting up an offense that creates clear chances regularly either early or more recently. We don't seem to have a strong identity at this point although I do think we had more of that in the World Cup, the way our midfield shut games down and controlled a lot of territory was a notable characteristic that was identifiable. We usually get more conservative for big competitions, so nothing earth shattering there but more of the same.

    His biggest tactical success that I see is fielding a team that can kill a game by loading the midfield with tacklers and taking few chances moving forward, especially centrally. It's not a coincidence that the World Cup game often pointed to as our biggest success is a 0-0 draw against England. Probably also not surprising that teams can attack us down the wing since that's the only area we really push numbers forward and that's still a place we can be exploited. Part of why we can strangle games is because it is tougher for an opponent to score attacking the wings since they have to get it back in the middle eventually, but it also means it's harder for us to attack when we limit our numbers to the wings. We are poor at getting the ball or players in the middle of the box where you need it to score goals. This is probably not entirely Berhalter's fault, but he hasn't figured out a way to help it either.

    I'm a bit stuck figuring out what he has brought to the table that makes this team better that people are ignoring. I see lots of people acknowledging he is a solid coach as far as defending goes. I hear about the team culture being his big contribution, but this team has discipline issues with red cards (5 in half a cycle for this go 'round with very few competitive games is quite a lot) and the players tend to lack playing with urgency and intensity which has been mentioned both by the players and Berhalter, so I don't see anything special to the culture as far as how it manifests on the field.

    I guess you can credit him with recruiting dual nationals, but that's not really coaching, and I don't know that he is solely responsible for that, or that it is really the role of the national team coach should be. But sure, give him some credit for that and I've seen many people talk positively about this aspect, so it's not ignored.

    So, for those who think he's done a good job and is not getting the credit he deserves, what has he done that stands out as his contribution? What has he brought to the table? What am I missing and what has he done that does not get the credit it deserves?
     
  3. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    He's been fine, and perhaps a little better than that in places. I'm not crowning him but people act like he's been a disaster.
    1. Repaired a broken locker room left by Klinsmann and Arena
    2. Integrated a TON of youth; not every club that has a generational shift does so as smoothly culturally
    3. Recruited well
    4. Consistently dominated CONCACAF trophies, qualified for WC despite a LOT of injuries
    5. Did to spec at the World Cup which should not be assumed
    6. Adapted gameplan to changing personnel, introduced a more proactive style of play, generally very solid defensively with constantly changing personnel.
    No, he's not 100% responsible for these or even close. That's my point all along. I'm not saying he took us into a brave new world; but he also didn't create a massive divide in the locker room and organization and then start us on a path to not qualifying for the World Cup.

    None of these are massive accomplishments, but he was a good shepherd in the first cycle, especially as we constantly had injuries and player turnover.

    What did he fail at?
    1. Failed to really create a dynamic offense without sacrificing defense
    2. Has seemingly not been able to transition the locker room to the next step
    I look at that. That's fine. Even good, in the sort of "yep, that's what we wanted" expectations of a coach.

    But we're past the point where the pluses are still relevant -- either job done or the cycle is over -- and we need to look for someone who can fix #1 and #2. Because the first definitely isn't him, and while maybe he could turn around #2 ... eh, general common sense says that it's probably just coaching fatigue.
     
  4. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    The 'fixed a broken locker room' is just silly nonsense, as most of the 'broken locker room' had simply been moved on.

    More importantly will be what will change, if GGG stays on. The team were elo-ranked 34th after his first game. It's now ranked 31st. It's difficult to see what will be so different. He's had 5 years. This doesn't look like a team that's been operating under the same system for 5 years. Uruguay do. Colombia do. Spain do. El Salvador did under Perez. Ecuador did against Argentina.
     
  5. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #9280 xbhaskarx, Aug 26, 2024
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2024
    We have people who defended Berhalter for years, didn't want him fired, think he should still be the coach... telling the people who wanted Berhalter fired and are happy to see US Soccer finally make an ambitious hire like Poch, that they are negative... up is down black is white.

    Meanwhile have we heard anything about Berhalter's next job? Chicago Fire maybe? After winning zero trophies with the Crew, who won a bunch of trophies pre-Gregg and post-Gregg, surely he is in high demand! What happened to those European rumors from back when US Soccer re-hired him a year ago? Were they as fake as the Klinsmann to Spurs rumors that got him re-hired a decade earlier?

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    The Gregg Berhalter coaching tree is really impressing. First we had Anthony Hudson leave for Qatar where he lasted exactly three games. Then Nico Estevez got fired by FC Dallas who are actually looking decent now under Luccin. Then we had Luchi Gonzalez fired by the Quakes who are looking at least better now under Russell. And BJ Callaghan (the only USMNT coach to convincingly win a trophy during the Gregg era in 2023 whereas all three of Gregg's trophies were due to flukes) took over Nashville who were a middling team at worst, and they haven't won a single game since. Which club wouldn't want to be next on that "Gregg Berhalter System" express train to success...

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    Who is "WE"??? If USSF did what YOU ask for Gregg would still be the coach!
     
  6. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    That was thorough!!
     
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  7. jgardner02

    jgardner02 Member

    Aug 30, 2011
    I don't normally condone dancing on graves but sometimes a little can be tolerated.

    There is a certain percentage of the sports fandom that will always, no matter what, defend the coach and blame everybody else. It's the players, it's the media, the other team got lucky, the xG looked positive, it was just one play, it was injuries etc etc. They will dig in and refuse to admit it even when it becomes undeniable.

    Don't worry about them though, they just as quickly glom on to the next coach and begin defending them in the same passionate manner.
     
  8. zhe fulano

    zhe fulano Member

    Real Madrid
    United States
    Jan 31, 2010
    Florida Keys, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Berhalter is history. I don't doubt that he did the best he could, but it is time to move forward.
     
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  9. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    Anyone with eyes to see and a brain to think knew that after the WC.

    WHY he was ever re-hired is beyond explanation.

    Finally we have someone at USSF who is bringing in a manager at least at the level that most of our main players are playing. Can't wait to see what Poch can do with this bunch.

    That is pretty devastating take down of the 3Gs coaching tree. I think the new guy at San Jose has worked wonders with just a few tweaks. The list posted proves that coaching does matter.
     
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  10. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    There are people who defended his first cycle but nobody wanted a second cycle and everybody was ready for a firing after Copa America.
     
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  11. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "nobody wanted a second cycle"

    lol delusional
     
  12. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Easy enough to disprove. Go ahead, do it.
     
  13. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #9288 xbhaskarx, Aug 27, 2024
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2024
    If "nobody wanted a second cycle" how was Berhalter hired for a second cycle?? Think about how crazy that is. If US Soccer hired a coach that 0% of people wanted, people must have been furious! Surely people calling for Cindy Parlow Cone, JT Batson and/or Matt Crocker to be immediately fired if they were so incompetent as to bring back a coach that litearlly nobody wanted!
    When US Soccer re-hired Berhalter on June 16 2023, this place must have blown up over such an outrageous decision that 0% of the people here supported, right? So where are all the threads where 100% of the posts are from people pissed off about Berhalter coming back for a second cycle?

    Edit: Here is one, which disproves "nobody wanted a second cycle" because nobody would 0 zero people and this is one person

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/next-coach.2123787/page-229#post-41472753

    Gregg is simply the best option and the safest option. We know what he can do in a tournament. We know the team likes him except for a few players who were salty for not starting.​

    Also the person who just posted below this comment was literally defending Berhalter beating up his then-girlfriend... ONE DAY AFTER he was re-hired so yeah obviously 0% support :thumbsup:
     
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  14. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Coaching trees are interesting but not meaningful. Check out Bill Belichik’s disastrous coaching tree.
     
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  15. zhe fulano

    zhe fulano Member

    Real Madrid
    United States
    Jan 31, 2010
    Florida Keys, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The problem with trees is that there is always some dog on Big Soccer waiting to pee on them.

    Berhalter took the USMNT as far as he could. His efforts give us a baseline reference point from which we'll all be judging Poch. And then there's this point: that we couldn't ask for a better incentive or test ground than the 2026 World Cup.

    Time to enjoy this ride.
     
  16. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you go to the original Next Coach thread you will find plenty of posters who argued for a 2nd cycle. You will also find many of the same posters who did not believe he should be fired after Copa.
     
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  17. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gregg ball continues to pay off even after he's gone
    1832546613262233939 is not a valid tweet id


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  18. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    We shouldn't forget Jay Berhalter's role in his brother's awful assistants. During Jay's time in charge, the USSF took money away from coaching and instead began paying enormous salaries to do-nothing administrators.

    Due to this change in salary structure, we could no longer afford coaches with the same level of experience/success. We're stuck with novices like Varas and Matkovic.
     
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  19. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gregg coaching tree update: Nico Estevez was brought back to be an assistant coach under Mikey Varas for the USMNT after failing at FC Dallas... and they lost to Canada at home for the first time since 1957. So that's what San Diego FC have to look forward to next season. Oh and BJ Callaghan is still winless with Nashville SC. Nashville are not even a bad team, they were headed to the playoffs once again under Gary Smith when he was fired after only getting 7 points out of his final 4 (2 wins, a tie, and a loss) games. Callaghan has dropped them to 15th (last) place in the east... they lost both games in the Leagues Cup as well. Gary Smith isn't exactly a good coach but the dropoff to Callaghan has been precipitous.
     
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  20. zhe fulano

    zhe fulano Member

    Real Madrid
    United States
    Jan 31, 2010
    Florida Keys, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    These comments sound essentially like repeats of Jurgen's about our systemic problems. Landon Donovan has been echoing similar - but not identical - sentiments publicly. Not sure if Crocker & company are the right staff to move things forward. They can't make all of the necessary cultural and structural changes in two years, but they can start.

    Simultaneously, Poch is being handed perhaps the best crop of U.S. soccer talent ever to work from. If he gets results he and those that brought him in will get a chance to impact the whole system from head to toe. Until then those entrenched in the status quo aren't changing a thing.
     
  21. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here is one:
     
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  22. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ^ And that's in September 2024, that was obviously a far more common sentiment in early 2023.
    any response?
     
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  23. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    That's your task. Disprove me. After all you can't prove a negative.
     
  24. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did you not see the comment immediately above that one?

    Consider yourself DISPROVEN
     
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  25. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Are you sure?

    Remember my claim is

    "There are people who defended his first cycle but nobody wanted a second cycle and everybody was ready for a firing after Copa America."

    This is from June 2023 from the same poster.

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/next-coach.2123787/page-211#post-41466313

    And that's my thing. Even if you "give him credit" for beating Mexico (not unprecedented), qualifying for the World Cup (in 3rd place on goal difference—the bare minimum required for direct qualification), and escaping the group (again, not unprecedented, and we came oh so close to blowing it), you also have to consider that 1. Even if you account for the investigation, you'd still be wasting 2 tournaments on an interim coach just to hire the guy you had to begin with, and 2. Look at how all of our coaches have fared past their first cycle: Arena crashed out of the group in '06, Bradley choked the Gold Cup against Mexico and was sacked, JK's second cycle was an absolute s**tshow aside from the 2016 Copa semifinal run (which could be attributed to an easy group and quarterfinal opponent in addition to having home field advantage), and Arena 3.0...well, I don't think I have to remind you what happened there.

    All things considered, it's obvious we need a fresh face if we want to "graduate" to the next level with this group.
     

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