News: Club World Cup to Expand; Confederations Cup to End

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Nico Limmat, Sep 9, 2016.

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  1. AlbertCamus

    AlbertCamus Member+

    Colorado Rapids
    Sep 2, 2005
    Colorado, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    I like the CWC and think the format is good. We don't need to see UEFA rematches, so only one country from each confederation is the way to go. Plus, for the UEFA team, its only 2 games, so they don't miss out on their more lucrative Champions League and domestic league fixtures. The next step is more imaginative hosting, but still keeping it in one city with the semi finals and finals in a big stadium and the other games in a small stadium.

    This needs to move around, Mexico City, Florida, a non-big league European location like Denmark or Athens, back to Japan again one day, and South America, and one of the stadiums they made South Afrcia build to host the world cup. Tickets will sell better if its understood to be no more than a once a decade event wherever it is.

    I think the December time frame is fine, except the Qatar WC year, leave summers for rest and/or international games.
     
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  2. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    DFB President Grindel calls for Confederations Cup to be scrapped
    If associations start sending "B" teams then it's probably time to call it quits.
     
  3. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who else is bitching about it, though? Germany has always hated this tournament (see: sending a B-team in 1999, punting on 2003 entirely), but I don't see anyone else joining them - and other than Chile, I'm thinking everyone else (including Portugal) will bring their best side available. Besides, if that's how the DFB feels, I'd love to hear their 2 cents on the upcoming Nations League...
     
  4. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, from the DW's article on the draw:

    "That's because the 2022 World Cup in Qatar will be held in November and December, meaning the Confederations Cup would cause severe disruption to the club calendar if held in its traditional slot a year before the bigger tournament."

    ...what? How does a 2021 Confed Cup in June (since FIFA's already stripped it from Qatar) change anything in the football calendar?
     
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  5. almango

    almango Member+

    Sydney FC
    Australia
    Nov 29, 2004
    Bulli, Australia
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    The two tournaments you mentioned with Germany were ones the year after a World Cup and they were pretty meaningless. FIFA dropped those versions and now hold it every four years as a test event. Most sides have treated the tournament more seriously since then.
     
  6. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    FIFA logic:

    They received applications for hosting the WC in the summer of 2022 and chose the one country (Qatar) where football can't be played in summer.

    They invent a test event (the Confederations’ Cup) which is supposed to help WC-host countries be better prepared to host the World Cup, and then decide not to have this tournament in the country that is about to host the World Cup. No big deal, its only the main reason the tournament exists at all.

    They invent a cup to determine a true club world champion (CWC) and within a few years start discussing moving it to the summer and playing it in countries where its too hot to play football in the summer.

    The comedy never stops….
     
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  7. almango

    almango Member+

    Sydney FC
    Australia
    Nov 29, 2004
    Bulli, Australia
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    FIFA do some wonderful things at times. You must admit, Qatar did have a nice set of drawings and those air conditioned stadiums and floating clouds providing sun cover will be magnificent once they overcome the technical and engineering difficulties of doing the impossible.

    The test event has been very successful, with nations qualifying for it taking advantage of some first hand knowledge of conditions they are likely to encounter. With it not being held in Qatar in 2021, I'm not sure people will take it so seriously. We always did when we were in OFC because we didn't have too many opportunities for any other competetive matches before our playoff.

    I've never been overly wrapped in the CWC. The only time I've been interested is when an Australian team has qualified. There is still too big a gap between club teams from different confederations.
     
  8. It's called FOOTBALL

    LMX Clubs
    Mexico
    May 4, 2009
    Chitown
    Anyone who wants to scrap the CWC is not a true football fan. You can't shut out the ROTW in this global game.

    I'm vehemently opposed to the ridiculous idea of expanding the CWC. If anything, the host team should be scrapped, and that's it. Contraction, not expansion.

    Please just keep everything as is, the Conf Cup is fine, if it becomes mostly B teams, so what. The A team tourney is the following year. You gotta keep the CWC annual with no expansion, it already involves all the world's teams, so any "expansion" is actually just redundancy.
     
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  9. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Of course the counter-argument to that is "the FIFA World Cup is basically just an expanded Confederations Cup". The Confed Cup already involves all the world's national teams. ;)

    Of course I'm half-kidding. But only half-kidding.

    I think the main argument against an expanded CWC is that ROW teams are just nowhere near the level of the top UEFA teams. If and when they are it would make sense to have a 16 or even 32-team CWC (not every year though). For the same reason we have a World Cup for NTs.
     
  10. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Would you then oppose an expansion of the World Cup as well ... it already involves all the world's teams ... a final event with 32 teams is a great size and Qs, which are World Cup matches as well, remain meaningful ... just like the EURO was perfect before UEFA degraded it into a diluted 24 team borefest last summer.

    In Europe, squeaky bum time doesn't exactly set in when the CWC or Confed Cup come around ... still I don't mind a CWC in winter (just don't move it to June) ... if the Confed Cup is scrapped though, I won't lose any sleep over it ... actually it has a distorting impact on the ranking (higher multiplier than Qs / only World Cup final event matches have an even higher multiplier) ... especially as the Confed Cup is held during the most important/highest yielding time frame (making these matches more important than those played at the World Cup or your confed's championship; e.g. World Cup matches will have depreciated to only 20% while Confed Cup matches are still worth 100% for the final draw/to decide the top seeds) ... and the teams playing in it get the lay of the land in the host nation.
     
  11. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    I hate the idea of expanding the WC but I wouldn't be opposed to it if the current WC only had 8 teams in it.

    So expansion of CWC is a separate matter altogether. A world tournament with 32 clubs is not too much by any means considering how many football clubs exist in the world. But the key to a successful 32-team CWC is parity. Parity not only across continents but also within continents. If every continent had CONMEBOL-like parity and the ROW's top teams could compete with UEFA's then it would be an epic tournament, perhaps even at the level of the World Cup. But we are light years away from achieving that sort of parity.
     
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  12. It's called FOOTBALL

    LMX Clubs
    Mexico
    May 4, 2009
    Chitown
    The CC never called itself a world championship. That's the difference, we all know it's a glorified exhibition tourney.

    I don't think that's a good argument. ROW would all have to sink to OFC levels for that argument to hold water. Corinthians' win is recent, so the gap isn't that large.

    If the ROW catches up, I'd only want a 16 or 32 team CWC if CLs are eliminated. Again, it's just a matter of labeling. The CWC is already a 1000 team tourney. It's just that when it's down to 32 teams, the games are all over the world at different times of year. I prefer it that way, minimal neutral venues.
    I vehemently oppose the WC expanding to 40 teams. Horrible idea.

    As I said, if the UCL labeled itself as part of the CWC, it would help enormously. Idk why it doesn't, the other CLs do. When the other CLs conclude, the announcer says "and now they move on to Japan!!!". The UCL announcer needs to do that too.

    The non-Euro CWC matches are competitive with a decent level of football. The Euro matches aren't always blowouts, Chelsea-Corinthians was a game for the ages.
     
  13. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    OFC levels is sorta where they are. Even the semifinals of the CWC (ie uefa v whoever) is about as competitive as New Zealand against Germany or Argentina. That's the real reason it shouldn't expand.
     
  14. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    @It's called FOOTBALL ... even if there was a massive push to promote the CWC in Europe, I doubt it would gain much recognition.

    World Club Cup deserves respect - BBC

    The Britons might be more vocal about it but hardly anybody in Europe pays attention to the CWC and supporters don't demand that it's taken seriously ... for example:

    Porto winning the 2003–04 Champions League was the last time an underdog was able to punch above their weight in the world's most prestigious and most lucrative club football competition (even then Porto is a bit bigger than the e.g. the Lincoln Red Imps from Gibraltar) ... IIRC Ajax changed their vision roughly a decade ago to reflect reality ... the gap between them and the elite clubs is unbridgeable ... if ROW clubs were competing in the UCL they'd suffer the same fate ... there's hardly any competitive balance ATM and the situation is NOT getting better ... what's worse professional football is disappearing in the smaller leagues ... you're far too optimistic about the Chelsea-Corinthians match ... there are many clubs that are at a clear competitive disadvantage because of economic constraints in Europe and elsewhere ... the imbalances won't be resolved overnight nor will we have a competitive club tournament to crown the world champion ... well, despite all the criticism that can be levelled at the UCL, it's the "competition" that comes closest.
     
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  15. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That might help the CWC, but the UCL gets enough attention that it doesn't need to call itself a CWC qualifier. I think fans of Real Madrid would be more likely to be able to name their 2015-2016 UCL Semifinal and Final opponents than to be able to name Barcelona's 2015 CWC Semifinal and Final opponents.
     
  16. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But it's so fun, though! :D

    Um...who's going to break it to him that Infantino's now thinking 48? :cautious:
     
  17. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As far as Europe and the CWC: Europeans look down on it because they're dining on UCL caviar year-round, which basically is what it is. I'm from the US - and honestly, if a CWC existed in basketball or baseball, we'd give it the same treatment, if not with even more disdain.

    There are two things that the European club involved cares about significantly, though:

    1) Winning another trophy to lord over its rivals, and
    2) Adding that FIFA World Champions badge that amounts to a de facto new jersey sale mid-season. :D
     
  18. AlbertCamus

    AlbertCamus Member+

    Colorado Rapids
    Sep 2, 2005
    Colorado, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    3. Expanding its fan base in the host country and with TV viewers
     
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  19. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Not really (maybe the prawn sandwich brigade look down on it, IDK, they do like shiny trinkets) ... European nights are very special to us all ... even more so when you support or play for a smaller club from one of the smaller leagues ... for the supporters and the players every group match is a final (to use a cliché) ... and usually you don't survive winter. I guess this is somewhat similar to the CWC experience ... although a David-esque club will never have a decent chance to face a Goliath in the Champions League Final. I wouldn't claim that the disinterest in the CWC is due to disdain (as in looking down on unworthy clubs) ... the event does feel like a corporate gig though and that sort of thing generates disdain, for unworthy commercialism, naturally (selecting the host based on economic deals and not on their footballing merit isn't really helping its cause) ... the CWC lacks that rare sense of 'history in the making', the quality is poor, 99.99% of clubs will never be involved: Unknown is Unloved (Flemish Proverb), etc.

    The FIBA Basketball World Cup doesn't attract interest at all ... not even in the countries that are shit at it yet get a chance to face the best players (if these guys even bother to show up) ... and that's supposed to be basketball's equivalent of the FIFA World Cup ... things could be a lot worse ... we just lack interest in what's a Super Cup of sorts while basketball struggles to generate interest for its World Cup and a basketball CWC, Confed. Cup, etc. don't even exist.

    Hahaha ... are the prawn sandwich brigade out on the piss?

    I doubt there's a yuuuge spike in sales unrelated to Christmas shopping ... the prawn sandwich brigade really do like shiny trinkets though ... well, at least it will give sweatshop kids something to do and they won't be on the streets during Christmas.

    Everything for the gloryhunters ... clubs are just tools to service the media markets anyway.
     
  20. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not sure what FIBA came from, in this discussion, but here is my thread on the new FIBA qualification format
    http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/fiba-world-cup-new-fifa-like-qualification-format.2021123/

    FIBA is banking that having home-and-away qualifiers (using a standardized format for each of FIBA's four regions, and including a promotion-relegation methodology) would generate interest in national teams and the FIBA Basketball World Cup.

    And since the Continental Cups will be played at the same time each four-year period, I wouldn't be surprised if they came up with a Confederations Cup-style tournament, even if it would be the four continental winners.
     
  21. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #71 Nico Limmat, Dec 5, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
    I don't remember Italy being overly enthusiastic in 2013. Italy also declined to take Germany's spot in 2003 resulting in third-choice Turkey getting the nod. But that was in the biennial days. 2017 would be the first time the competition gets the B-team treatment from anyone since the "new and improved" quadrennial re-alignment.

    I agree with you on Portugal. After winning the Euros they are eager for more hardware.
    FIBA has been trying for years to get a proper CWC going but the NBA refuses to walk among the great unwashed. Instead we have the underwhelming FIBA Intercontinental Cup. I have come to the conclusion that the major North American sports leagues will never be truly be part of the fabric of their respective sports. The arrogance is simply impossible to overcome.

    Therefore I am glad that we have a true world title in club football even with all its flaws. That rather unique inclusiveness alone makes it worth preserving the competition in some shape or form. And the current format works just fine for me for the time being. I even enjoy the timing just before Christmas. It's a nice way to finish the year.
     
  22. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Balotelli certainly was...then again, he's overly enthusiastic about a lot of things. :D
     
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  23. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Arrogance? Or the fact that the American sports leagues have max'ed out their schedules, and participating in international events (outside of the Olympics) would mean cutting into their slate of games? ("Hey, NBA, cut six games out of your schedule so that Cleveland can play in our world title tournament!" NBA teams: "Uh... no.")
     
  24. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    And yet there was still enough room to squeeze in the ridiculous NHL-run World Cup of Hockey. A tournament with the underlying agenda to discontinue Olympic participation and pocket any revenue at the NHL directly. God forbid someone else makes money with NHL players on the rink. Yes, arrogance. The North American sports leagues have never seen their peers as equals and likely never will. If they did they would agree to an internationally run player transfer system with fees that promote a trickle-down effect and reward player development. Instead they "draft" our players whenever they like.
     
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  25. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    By "fabric of their respective sports" do you mean that Europeans would care more about American teams if they made and participated in a tournament like the Club World Cup? Two of the most popular American leagues, MLB and NFL, are in sports rarely played in Europe. Would Europeans care more about the NBA and NHL if they agreed to have their champions compete against the top European clubs (and maybe from other places like a Chinese basketball club)? I don't think abolishing the Club World Cup would make Americans care less about the top European clubs.
     

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