News: Club World Cup to Expand; Confederations Cup to End

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Nico Limmat, Sep 9, 2016.

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  1. fero

    fero Member

    Oct 31, 2011
    Argentina
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    if you have champions league champion every year you need a club world cup every year.
     
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  2. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    I would hate to see a quadrennial CWC with 32 teams if that's what Infantino is talking about. Some of the clubs that qualified several years ago could be in dreadful shape by the time the tournament comes around. If we have to move away from an annual format then biennial with 16 teams makes the most sense. But that still doesn't address the potential clashes with some Nations Cups.
    That's my take as well.
     
  3. mfw13

    mfw13 Member

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    What a joke....there aren't enough well-financed (or good) clubs throughout the rest of the world to challenge the UEFA giants.....the knockout rounds would just end up being a mini-UEFA Champions League.
     
  4. shizzle787

    shizzle787 Member

    Apr 27, 2015
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have a better idea. Just can both of them. There is too much going on anyways. I do think that all of the confederation championships should be the same year (two years on either side of the world cup). The truth is that the sport is too bloated as is. No one cares about the CWC. Some people find the Confed Cup interesting (I'll admit I do), but it is unnecessary. Same thing with countries: they need to get rid of secondary (league) cups. And get rid of the Nations League as well.
     
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  5. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Fully agree with you on the elimination of domestic League Cups and a standardized (quadrennial) approach to the various confederation Nations Cups. As for the Club World Cup I follow it with interest but realize it hasn't captured the interest of most casual fans. Still, it makes sense to keep it around in my opinion even if right now it appears to be a waiting game for non-UEFA sides to drastically improve their playing level and perhaps more importantly - their commercial pull (something the South American clubs lacked when they were still competitive).

    The CWC's history can be traced back to 1960 close sixty years ago. The Confederations Cup started as a Saudi toy in 1992 and never had a "unique" quality to it. The Club World Cup crowns a title that no other tournament does and provides match-ups you would be hard-pressed to find in other sports. Clubs with the stature of Real Madrid don't normally climb down from Mount Olympus to play mere mortals like Mamelodi Sundowns. The NHL or NBA for example still haven't been persuaded, after decades of trying, to play for a world title.

    Does that mean I support Infantino's bloated madness? Absolutely not.

    As for the UEFA Nations League, scrapping it makes sense if you're going to reduce the number of FIFA dates. If not it is a welcomed upgrade from godawful friendly matches with endless substitutions. But perhaps the "final four" should be played in March?
     
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  6. NaBUru38

    NaBUru38 Member

    Mar 8, 2016
    Las Canteras, Uruguay
    Club:
    Club Nacional de Football
    Indeed. It's the Copa América and Gold Cup in June-July, Asian Cup and Africa Cup of Nations in January

    If Barcelona and Flamengo qualify, why would Real Madrid or Vasco da Gama fans watch it?

    Unless they put four English teams, three Spanish teams and three Italian teams, just to exclude the smaller markets.
     
  7. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the most popular clubs would rather play friendlies or International Champions Cup games they decide on rather than a Club World Cup in the summer. If it had 32 teams and had the same format as a World Cup, it would take 31 days. In addition to conflicting with national team tournaments, it would conflict with Champions League and Europa League Qualifying Rounds. Most of the top clubs don't play in qualifying rounds or start in Qualifying Round 3 (which started on July 26 this year) or later, but there are exceptions. APOEL Nicosia started the 2011-2012 Champions League on July 13 and reached the Quarterfinals. Even if it was possible, I don't want there to be a 32 (or even 16) Club World Cup at the same time as Champions League and Europa League Qualifying Rounds. I also think the players should get a little break. Do you think Cristiano Ronaldo would want to have a five round (up to seven games per team) tournament in three out of every four years? The three tournaments would be the World Cup, Euro, and hypothetical 32 club Club World Cup. In addition to any issues with fairness or the equality of clubs changing, if multiple Champions Leagues qualified clubs for the same Club World Cup, it would be complicated to determine who qualifies. Let's give UEFA 13 spots in a hypothetical Club World Cup like they get for the World Cup. UEFA would deserve more than 13 clubs, but my point works for UEFA having 13 clubs, 20 clubs, or anywhere in between. The last four UEFA Champions League Semifinals had 8 different clubs. The amount of clubs who reach multiple Semifinals varies, but I think it's safe to say that four consecutive UEFA Champions League Semifinals won't have more than 13 different clubs. Next, I'll try to choose UEFA Champions League Quarterfinal losers who didn't reach any of those Semifinals. That provides Paris Saint-Germain, who has lost in the last four Quarterfinals, and four clubs whose best finish in the last four Champions Leagues was one Quarterfinal loss. Those clubs are Malaga, Galatasaray, Manchester United, Porto, AS Monaco, Wolfsburg, and Benfica. How do you choose which of them would qualify for a Club World Cup held every four years?
     
  8. napolisoccer

    napolisoccer Member

    Feb 20, 2005
    Napoli
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I am 100% agreed wit a 32 team CWC, but not in June, when every 2 years there are the World Cup or the Europe Cup.
     
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  9. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    I would rather see the CWC scrapped than the Confederations Cup. Both are kinda useless but at least in the Confed Cup there are more than 2 teams that can win it. Plus its only once every 4 years.
     
  10. almango

    almango Member+

    Sydney FC
    Australia
    Nov 29, 2004
    Bulli, Australia
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    If you added more teams from Europe and South America you would have more than two teams that could win it.
     
  11. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    Yeah, you would have about 4. But they would be the same 4 teams that played in the CL semis so kind of redundant, and thus, pointless. :sleep:
     
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  12. dinamo_zagreb

    dinamo_zagreb Member+

    Jun 27, 2010
    San Jose, CA / Zagreb, Croatia
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Scrap the Confed Cup, play 8-team CWC in late July/early August (during preseason).

    Players aren't robots (OK, Ronaldo is), they can't play on constant basis, they need free summer here and there, ffs.

    Gianni looks like real-life Football Manager Editor player.
     
  13. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #38 Nico Limmat, Nov 22, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
    Well, CONCACAF and Fox continue to bank on a Confederations Cup happening in 2021 as evident in the new Gold Cup deal for 2017 and 2019.
    And yet here I hope 2017 is the last time Mexico plays back-to-back summer tournaments on the FIFA calendar as it is an absolutely ridiculous situation. At least in CAF's case, the only other confederation insisting on a biennial nations cup, the AFCON is played in January and not right after the Confederations Cup.
    So just because club football outside UEFA is in an underwhelming state you want to throw out nearly 60 years of competition history and scrap the only tournament around crowning a club world champion? Over a competition that started as a personal amusement for King Fahd? No, can't say I agree.
     
  14. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Even if only 2 clubs can win the CWC, it still gives clubs a chance to battle for third and lower positions. I think TP Mazembe is happy there were CWCs, and Deportivo Saprissa (from a low-population country) was the last CONCACAF club to finish in the Top 3.
     
  15. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Plus, Auckland City's run in 2014 was something to behold - who ever thought an Oceanian team could take the Copa Libertadores winners to overtime? :D We were legitimately this close to a Real Madrid-Auckland City World Cup final, which might well have been the craziest matchup in sports.
     
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  16. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    Average attendance for matches not involving the UEFA team in the CWC last year was about 20,000 per game.

    For the 2013 Confed Cup, even if we exclude Brasil matches, the average attendance was about 50,000 per match.

    Would be interesting to know what the TV ratings are but I wouldn't be surprised if the disparity was even greater than stadium attendance.
     
  17. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 8, 2003
    209, California
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Not sure how interesting it would be. Confederations Cup has almost always kicked off during prime time hours in Western/Central Europe. CWC before noon.
    For me in the Pacific Time Zone Confed Cup is usually around 9am-12noon. CWC between 11pm-2am. Despite the hours I'd still rather watch CWC (in its present format) than Confed Cup but I know and accept that I'm in the minority.
     
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  18. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Outside the absolute club elite the national team game is much easier to sell to the casual fans. Always has been. The fan-bases are a lot less fragmented. That doesn't mean the club game doesn't deserve its own global stage. Again, what does the Confederations Cup give us that the World Cup doesn't?

    Now as for Infantino's expansion folly, this article gives some background:
     
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  19. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Any idea where the 2021 Confederations Cup will take place? In Qatar it will be too hot in summer and AFAIK nobody from AFC has offered to host it (instead of Qatar) ... potentially the 2021 FIFA Club World Cup, would be held in Qatar in November/December 2021, as the test event for the 2022 World Cup ... no word on what happens to the 2021 Confederations Cup though. - http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/fifa-strips-qatar-of-confederations-cup-1.2973534

    Also, the 2021 UEFA Nations League top tier group winners will probably play Final Four in June 2021 ... from 2018 onwards every summer will be a summer of football for UEFA teams ... we'll be left with a terribly congested calendar if a 32 team FIFA Club World Cup and the Confederations Cup take place in June/July as well.

    After a diluted EURO2016, the worst tournament I've seen, I'm looking forward to the inaugural edition of the Nations League to make up for it ... looks like UEFA aims to make the Nations League a major tournament ... it's going to be cut-throat ... Europe's top sides facing each other straightaway in qualifiers ... e.g. a GoD of Germany, Spain and Croatia ... tough yet mouth-watering Qs ... even the top sides can't hide from a relegation battle ... and all that before the Final 4 kicks off. The Confederations Cup and Club World Cup, on the contrary, struggle to attract interest in Europe ... winning those tournaments hardly has any prestige at all over here (feels more like a corporate gig than something to keep supporters at the tip of their seats) ... even though the Nations League will be brand new, this tournament could very well draw more attention and winning UNL silverware could quickly carry plenty of prestige.
     
  20. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #45 Nico Limmat, Nov 23, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
    Until we get back to a point where at least 20-30 percent of CWC titles are won by a non-European side it is these secondary story-lines that make the tournament worth watching. Yes, Real Madrid will walk away with the ninth title for UEFA in the last decade in December but will CONMEBOL manage to defend its privileged seeding against the rest? With every year that passes the Libertadores winner seems less and less stellar (Corinthians being the obvious exception).
    In short - no. It's all a big mess.
     
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  21. tudobem62014

    tudobem62014 Member+

    Feb 26, 2014
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I'm one of those people lol.

    It's fun to watch =D. The Brazil 2013 Final was great as well as the Italy Spain Semifinal. That was one the SEXIEST set of PK's I ever saw. And USA almost won that 2009 one. Wasn't the 1997 one the one where we got the Roberto Carlos Banana kick? Lots of good moments.
     
  22. tudobem62014

    tudobem62014 Member+

    Feb 26, 2014
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    sad can't find a HD version of the PK shootout between Italy and Spain
     
  23. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    It seems congested at first glance but remember that they're likely to be all different teams. Instead of 1-2 UEFA team playing in the Confed Cup in June 2021 you'll have 5-6 NT's involved in int'l competition that month (still a small minority). But the Nations League is only 2 matches I believe (?) And its during a regular FIFA int'l break which already exists so technically speaking they're not playing any extra matches.

    but yeah.. a 32-team CWC would increase the level of congestion notably. That's why its not a very feasible idea.
     
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  24. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I will suggest that the format should not group play, but single-elimination the whole way; play consolation matches, so all 32 teams play in each of the five rounds; if you don't want the #25-#32 consolation matches to played, say that teams that lose their first three matches are eliminated.

    Europe (8, seeded 1 to 8), South America (8. seeded 1-8), North America (6), Asia (6), Africa (2), Oceania (2); rest-of-world is seeded 1-16

    In the first round, seeds EUR-1 and SA-1 play ROW-15 and ROW-16; so forth down the line, so ROW-1 and ROW-2 play EUR-8 and SA-8.

    Second round is bracketed so that if only EUR and SA teams advance, EUR-1 plays SA-8 and so forth. Rest of rounds are bracketed similarly.
     
  25. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    #50 Blondo, Nov 23, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
    One of Infantino's kooky ideas will stick eventually ... and yes, hopefully it won't be that 32-team CWC in June/July. Now IF the Nations League had started already (those cut-throat Qs just having finished this month) ... in 2017 both Germany and Portugal would have had a fair chance of advancing to the Final 4 or together with the other UEFA teams they would be playing double matchday Qs ("Week of Football" overhaul) ... in any case there'll be more competitive matches year round and regardless of which teams go to the Confederations Cup all those matches will further cut into the player's rest ... Germany not only acknowledged that players need more rest but they also put their words into action and gave them more rest while clubs often have done the same ... and that's the sentiment already before adding more competitive matches (for all UEFA teams from 2018 onwards).*

    The Nations League could very well expand rapidly ... especially the real danger of top sides being relegated or failing to advance to the final event, e.g. a huge media market like Germany dropping down/being a no-show, could mean we won't have to wait that long to see the return of a 16 team tournament in Europe ... doubting the diluted 24 team Euros will go back to the 16 team formula that worked beautifully (another expansion is more likely as that horrible 24 team format is unbalanced and more teams means more profit) ... so the next step could be a Nations League with a top tier of 4 groups of 4 teams ... after 3 double matchdays the group leader & runner-up advance ... a straight KO final event with QFs, SFs and Final ... that's already elegant as fvck and you can still expand to a final event with 16 teams.

    *some teams prefer to play fewer friendlies or even struggle to find an opponent ... that sort of thing can also help "game" the FIFA rankings, e.g. Wales and Romania had top seed status in the Russia2018 Qs draw while Italy shot themselves in the foot playing useless friendlies ... also, taking a breather in friendlies is hardly the same as having to get results in competitive matches year round. When you like the Confederations Cup to be viewed as something bigger than a simple dress rehearsal/corporate gig/gala event, then those matches would also have to be highly competitive.
     

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