Club World Cup Refereeing [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Apr 8, 2025.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
  3. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Lot easier to give a red card in the 88th minute than in the 15th minute.

    I guess the logic for the first one was he pulled out and it was "glancing."
     
  4. Thegreatwar

    Thegreatwar Member

    Seacoast United
    May 28, 2015
    New Hampshire
    #154 Thegreatwar, Jun 18, 2025
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2025
    Great simulation YC by Tello for Vinicius.
    Correct disallowed goal for OS by AR2
    Bellingham with a “our ball! Our ball! (AR2 signals other way) F*** off!” picked up on the mics.

    EDIT: Penalty for Al Hilal! Soft but supportable I think, even though the attacker goes down on his own, defender can’t complain after grabbing him like that.
     
  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This has to be a penalty for Real at 87'...
     
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  6. Thegreatwar

    Thegreatwar Member

    Seacoast United
    May 28, 2015
    New Hampshire
    Should’ve gotten it live TBH. His foul recognition hasn’t been as good this half…
     
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  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The last replay after the OFR showed that Tello put his whistle to his mouth for the foul and then opted not to blow. That's really too bad for him.
     
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  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He almost did!
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Was there a restart after the penalty save and, if so, what for? Because if not, the goalkeeper held the ball for a really long time.
     
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  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And for what it's worth, Al Hillal keeper had the ball from 60:58 to 61:09 without a whistle. Since this is new, I think it is important to see how this is being applied (and not applied), particularly per the discussion on the IFAB/LOTG thread.
     
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  11. coreyrock

    coreyrock Member

    Mar 11, 2014
    A very reliable source told me his assistants started the 8-second count, then at 5, he took over the count with his hand in the air counting down 5-4-3-2-1.
     
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  12. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds and looks like he whistles the ball out of play and signals for a goal kick (from around 5:00).
     
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  13. Thegreatwar

    Thegreatwar Member

    Seacoast United
    May 28, 2015
    New Hampshire
    Potential DOGSO for Penso at 16’. YC supportable I think, but very close to being red.
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You nailed it. I missed the signal (and didn't hear the whistle) the first time. On the broadcast, they showed a bunch of replays right after that and then you finally see the ball going into play when they come back, so you didn't see a goal kick get taken.

    I wonder a little about the veracity of that goal kick call but... meh. Sensible move no matter what in that context.
     
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  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In a vacuum and with benefit of replay, I find the case for yellow difficult to make. The only component you can even argue is missing is likelihood to control the ball... but, is it?

    I guess with the bouncing ball and it being the 16' minute, you err on the side of caution because FIFA wants you to do so. "DOGSO needs to be clear" and all that. But if this got shown for instructional purposes and removed from any specific context, I think the majority of referees in a room are voting red over yellow, no?
     
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  16. Thegreatwar

    Thegreatwar Member

    Seacoast United
    May 28, 2015
    New Hampshire
    Perhaps, but I was thinking one of the defenders in the center might have been able to challenge the attacker as he cut towards goal. I don’t think a red would be wrong, either.

    What do you think about the VAR non-intervention?
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is the moment of the foul. No one is challenging him. It's just a question of if he can get control.

    upload_2025-6-18_22-4-7.png

    You're just not going to get an intervention for that play at a FIFA event. MLS might be a different story.
     
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  18. Thegreatwar

    Thegreatwar Member

    Seacoast United
    May 28, 2015
    New Hampshire
    I concede the point then. That does seem like a red. Have to remember to take the ‘snapshot’ of the covering defenders early enough. Almost like the flash lag effect …
     
  19. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member+

    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    39' PAL- AHL
    Taylor gives red for a challenge at midfield, then called over and changes to yellow.

    I think that's a correct decision, given the standard these days

    I kind of wish we were back when this was routinely given as a red but that's just not where the game is.
     
  20. Thegreatwar

    Thegreatwar Member

    Seacoast United
    May 28, 2015
    New Hampshire
    Also two later challenges that he cautioned were more SFP-ish than that one
     
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  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First, on the announcement... it's the best one we had. Now, obviously English is his first language, so that helps a great deal. But even still, he explains why he changed from red to yellow, which is not something you see (or hear, rather) in MLS. If you're going to have the announcements, this is best in class. Now, does it actually matter to fans generally? I'm still skeptical.

    Staying on the technical matters, I'm noting that someone else is turning on their mics rather than like in MLS, where the referees do it themselves. Seems inefficient and potentially dangerous. I've noted referees talking too early and, in the case of Tello yesterday, telling off a player when the mic was still on.

    Final small technical thing... Taylor dispensed with the charade of taking out the red to wave it off and put it back in. Whether that's his own choice or a new instruction, I don't know, but it's the right route.

    Now, on the merits of the decision...

    Yeah, I think football expects yellow nowadays. I would quibble with Taylor on the why/how he gets there, though. For me, it's the fact that the leg was bent and he didn't follow-through with force. I think those aspects get you to yellow. Because Taylor said "the contact on the foot was low"--okay, but that's only because the opponent jumped to avoid the challenge; if he doesn't jump, contact is flush on the shin (and then maybe it's a red despite the bent leg). I think Taylor's explanation here is a reminder that the idea we punish the nature of the challenge, rather than the result, has mostly gone out the window except with some exceptions for extraordinary circumstances.

    Oh, final thing... that "only the captain" thing is really working out, huh?
     
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  22. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    Great points all around.

    I have no idea why FIFA has this setup where the ref’s mic is controlled remotely. It seems like such an obviously worse technical solution in every way and it makes almost all the announcements look more awkward than they need to. But then again I’m still wondering why VARs don’t have direct control over video playback so what do I know
     
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  23. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I wanna see the Taylor red.

    Funny in the other thread everyone quibbling bout 8 second rule. But the captain only rule has been deceptively effective in the youth and USL2 leagues. Although, both leagues, I did not have to institute it, the mere thought of it was a factor in avoiding mobbing and the captains being proactive. Which I think is good for the game
     
  24. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Found video of the VAR announcement. This is how it always should be
     
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  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just catching up on Miami-Porto highlights. 28 fouls without a single card for a Miami game feels like a very deliberate approach. Ramosesque, even. For anyone that watched, did it work? I noted 39' below (3:42 timestamp) and it makes me want to pull my hair out.

    The penalty process is amazing. Live, the announcer (Cantor) just says "clear penalty." It happens at 4:11 of match time. Review initiated at 5:19 (despite the ball going out of play at 4:50 and the announcer knowing then there would be a review). Decision to give the penalty made around 5:50. Penalty finally taken and scored at 7:52.



    Imagine if, you know, we just called straightforward penalties live?

    Also pretty sure Messi's free kick goal comes from a phantom foul, since Garay indicated he called the foul from behind (and spotted it as such).
     

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