Let's take a look at the whole roster, try to decide who will be back (and who won't) and why. I know there's another thread already devoted to this, but that one is incomplete and has already devolved into name-calling. Let's try to get to page 2 on this one before we vent our spleens at each other. Keepers Jonny Walker Why he stays: Because he's the best damn keeper in the league, and a bargain at his reported $130,000 salary. Even if its bumped up to $200k, he's still more than worth it. Why he goes: Barcelona decides to splash out $3m on a new keeper because Rustu sucks. Other than something like that, there's no way Walker isn't a Metro next year. Verdict: Keep him. Paul Grafer Why he stays: He's a vet with playoff experience, a great locker-room guy who doesn't make waves and loves the team. And he's not an embarrassment when he actually does play. Also, he makes minimum salary, or thereabouts. Why he goes: Because he's only just not an embarrassment. It's not outlandish to think there's a better, younger keeper out there. Verdict: Keep him. Defenders Eddie Pope Why he stays: He's the captain, our best player and the best defender in the league. He's a two-time World Cup vet who's still on the right side of 30, and completely irreplacable. Also signed a long-term contract at midseason, so he's tied to the league for the next 4 years. Why he goes: Max salary for a defender who's going to miss large chunks of the season due to call-ups and injuries? What if Dallas offers us Gbandi and the first overall pick, and Marshall declares for the draft? I'm just talking here. In reality there's no way he goes. Verdict: Keep him. Steve Jolley Why he stays: No one bleeds Metro like Steve; no one loves the team like Steve. He's also a very good central defender with a flair for late-game heroics. Before his midseason injury a case could have been made for him being one of the top 3 defenders in the league (with Pope and Boca). Since then he's dropped in form, but four months off should see him fresh and ready next March. Also tied to a long-term contract, and on the right side of 30. Why he goes: If someone offers us a forward who can actually put the ball in the net, good-bye Steve. Verdict: Keep him. Chris Leitch Why he stays: He's a quality role-player who works cheap and doesn't make mistakes on the flank, save for the gaffe against LA way back in April. Just 24 years old. Why he goes: Not a sure starter, not a dynamic presence. Why keep him around? Verdict: Keep him. Edgar Bartolomeu Why he stays: He's a threat to attack up the left flank who has shown flashes of brilliance this season. On the right side of 30, and a rare left-footer. Why he goes: He's shown flashes of pure crap as well. Also he takes up an SI slot, which ain't great value. Verdict: Keep him. Joey DiGiamarino Why he stays: An acceptable back-up or spot-starter on the left side, he's on the right side of 30 and works cheap. Considering that he'd been out of soccer for 2 years, he showed pretty well this season despite some embarrassing moments. Why he goes: Doesn't really solve any problems, and on his bad days he's very, very bad. Verdict: Keep him. Craig Ziadie Why he stays: Defender with international experience who can play in both the 3 and 4-back sets. On the right side of 30, and works cheap. Why he goes: He's more prone to mental errors than any back in the league and after three years it's clear he's not getting any better in that respect. Seemingly went out of his way to lose his starting spot. There's definitely more value out there for the spot. Verdict: Lose him. Joe Addo Why he stays: Wily experienced vet who works cheap. A true gentleman who loves the game, and who's never been a problem in the locker room. Why he goes: He's about three years past his sell-by date. The second goal v. DC, the PK against Dallas, and a hundred other plays illustrate that he just can't keep up mentally or physically in the league. And he's on the wrong side of 30. Verdict: Lose him. Juan Forchetti Why he stays: Young defender has performed well at times and doesn't count against salary cap b/c of TI status. Argentinean experience, however overstated, is still a plus. Also could provide cover at d-mid. Why he goes: Too small, slow and error prone for the league. Looked more and more overmatched as the season went on. Verdict: Lose him and see if Boca will send us someone decent instead. Kenny Arena Why he stays: Big, strong, young defender with youth international experience who is a non-rostered, developmental player - those are hard to find. Dude works hard in practice. for $600/month and doesn't complain. Has definite upside, and because of his non-rostered status Metro can afford to be patient. Why he goes: Was horrid, just horrid in his time this year. The game at this level is too fast for him. Verdict: Keep him. Midfielders Amado Guevara Why he stays: When on his game, he's among the most dynamic midfielders in the leauge. A wealth of international experience. He also came through clutch repeatedly in the USOC, and is on the right side of 30. Why he goes: Hasn't come up clutch in the regular season or playoffs so far. Hasn't put the ball in the net with any regularity, even for a midfielder. Verdict: Keep him. Ricardo Clark Why he stays: Future of the national team at d-mid, a guy with as much potential at that spot as any American who's ever laced up the boots. Young, gifted and black. Works cheap (for now). Why he goes: No way he goes, even given that he's not going to be a pro-40 next year and will take someone's slot. Verdict: Keep him. Mark Lisi Why he stays: Most gifted passer in the league, plays better in crunch time, on the right side of 30 and works cheap. Showed this past weekend that he's capable of playing defense, and has big "I'll play with a torn tendon in my foot, then chaperone Clint" balls. Why he goes: Eddie Gaven takes his spot making Lisi redundant, and someone offers us a forward for him. Verdict: Keep him. Eddie Gaven Why he stays: He's a 17 year old Luis Enrique. His potential is damn near limitless, and even at 16 didn't look overwhelmed in the league. Will still be pro-40. Why he goes: Someone offers us Adu instead Verdict: Keep him. Richie Williams Why he stays: A great locker-room guy who's won in this league and with the national team. A useful late-game "kill the clock" guy. Why he goes: Past his sell-by date, in addition to the fact he makes a lot of cash for a guy who will spend most of his time on the bench. Verdict: Lose him. Tim Regan Why he stays: Showed that he can be an effective back-up for Clark at d-mid. Has some upside, works cheap, just 22 years old, and provides cover in the back as well. Why he goes: Terrible in the regular season finale, and he's almost painfully ugly. Verdict: Keep him. Jacob LeBlanc Why he stays: 22 year old right midfielder has worked hard and put the ball in the net twice in limited time this year. Has some skill and is on a pro-40 contract, so he's not rostered. Why he goes: He's not likely to be a starter for the Metros, probably ever. Verdict: Keep him. Jose Galvan Why he stays: Is keeping him even an option? Why he goes: He's gone already. Verdict: Lose him. Forwards Clint Mathis Why he stays: If he ever recovers his form he'll be one of the best forwards in the league, a real terror. He's on the right side of 30, a World Cup vet, and is probably the only Metro that actually is a draw. Why he goes: Has lost his scoring touch, first step, and temper. He cost the Metros games last year, and this year the team has been better without him. Also makes max salary, and doesn't appear to link well with the other guys on the team. Verdict: Lose him. Andrzej Juskowiak Why he stays: Has shown flashes of skill. Big and strong, he holds the ball well and has big-game experience internationally and in the Bundesliga. Why he goes: Slow, inconsistent finisher, a SI, on the wrong side of 30. Verdict: Lose him. John Wolyniec Why he stays: Late game hero on numerous occasions, he never stops working, is a local guy, works cheap and is on the right side of 30. A real warrior. Why he goes: He's ideally a fourth forward on any team. No one who's four deep on the chart is ever untouchable. Verdict: Keep him. Mike Magee Why he stays: Skillful and opportunistic teenager has scored some big goals for the Metros. Likely to be Pro-40 for one more year, he's not rostered. Has improved his overall game greatly from game 1 to game 30, though is in a slump in front of the net currently. Why he goes: DC offers us Adu for him. Verdict: Keep him. Mike Nugent Why he stays: A developmental player, he showed a lot of hustle, some skill and intelligence against New England. Especially for a guy who makes $600/month. Bradley had him in Chicago, and brought him to Metro, so there's a bond. Why he goes: Who's to say Robens Jerome, or one of the other now-ex MetroBlack players isn't better and willing to work for the same contract? Maybe we sign a few Pro-40 players to take up the six non-rostered spots, meaning Nugent would become rostered. Would you spend a full roster slot on him? Also, he looks like a dick. Verdict: Keep him. Jaime Moreno Why he stays: Oh please. Why he goes: Too many reasons to list. Verdict: Lose him.
So looking at the above, our 18 rostered players are: 1) Walker 2) Grafer 3) Pope 4) Jolley 5) Leitch 6) Bartolomeu (si) 7) DiGi 8) Guevara (si) 9) Clark 10) Lisi 11) Regan 12) Wolyniec 13) 14) 15) 16) 17) 18) Our 6 dev/pro 40 slots are: 1) Arena (dev) 2) Gaven (pro-40) 3) LeBlanc (pro-40) 4) Magee (pro-40) 5) Nugent (dev) 6)
So, what does all this tell us we need or don't need? 1) Central defense: We know Pope is going to miss games. We have roster slots open, and money from Howard, Mathis and Moreno. There will be good defenders on the market thanks to LA and Chicago, and there will be good defenders in the draft. Would anyone mind a back-3 of CJ Brown - Pope - Jolley with a college prospect on the bench? I wouldn't. 2) Forward: As we stand with this lineup, Magee and Wolyniec will be our starters with Nugent as the spark. Ouch. It's clear we need a top-level striker and given the fact that we're bound to have at least one allocation and the money to pay (and the time too look), here's hoping we unearth the next Ruiz. Maybe Guevara knows someone besides Pavon in Honduras, as I'd prefer to stay in Concacaf for our SI's. 3) D-mid depth: As it is here, when Clark's gone at the olympics Regan is our only d-mid. That's not acceptable. If Williams halves his salary again, I'd bring him back. Otherwise I'd look to bring Jeff Moore back in, or perhaps Bilyk from Va Beach in the A-League. They both have MLS experience, and they both had productive years in the second division. 4) Flank depth: I don't think this is as pressing as it once was because I expect Bradley to play a 3-5-2 next year, which means that Barto and DiGi are adequate on the left. I also expect Gaven to become a first-11 player on the right flank, with LeBlanc and Leitch as backups. The end-game analysis is that we have far fewer needs to fill than this time last year, with more money and time to do it with. And while last year we focused on youth in the draft, this year we can take older guys with less upside, but greater ability to contribute early. We'll also be players in the "free agency" market as it were, because of the cap space we'll have. In short, we're in a much, much better position this time around. We've got a core of great players through the middle (Walker; Jolley, Pope; Clark, Lisi, Guevara) to build around, and a championship-caliber guy to do the building. I'm disappointed in how we've played since mid-July, but confident 2004 will be our year.
You're pretty much spot-on with your analysis. I could see some of your "keepers" leaving because of the numbers game. For example: We get Carlos Pavon and another SI midfielder to partner with Amado. Edgar would then be jettisoned (unless he gets a Green Card). The "Nuge" might lose out as well if we can pick up some decent developmental players later in the draft. I liked his hustle when he played but do we really need a #6 striker? I would love to see two more Boca players next year. Yes, these didn't work out but we need to keep the relationship alive. Also, Forchetti seemed to generally enjoy himself (from what I saw in the warm-ups and sitting behind his family at the games). He looked like he enjoyed the Metro experience compared to the moping (homesick?) Galvan. I wouldn't be that surprised to see him back if he's still a TI. Our biggest needs: A strike partnership of Magee and Wolyniec won't cut it. Spend an SI on a decent striker. Someone who is on the same page as Guevara (Pavon?). Another midfielder to partner with and mentor Clark. Maybe Bradley can pick out another good Eastern Euro for this position. A third defender. Possibly spend the SI spot on this position. A three-man back line of Jolley-Pope-? with Leitch and DiGi attacking on the flanks. Edit: Damn you type fast. You already covered most of the points I tried to make.
I'd actually be amenable to keeping him as well, though I listed him as a "cut". I think with a spring training he could end up being the third d-mid for this team. And - this is important - he has a mullet. It's not a soccer team if one guy doesn't have a mullet. I don't buy that we need help in midfield. What we need is a dangerous forward who will open space for our midfield to flow like it did in May and June. I'd prefer Gaven and Edgar attacking on the flanks, but yours is good too. One little fantasy of mine is that we send one of our allocations to DC for Stokes and Eskandarian, who are both still, IMHO, top-level prospects in the league. Stokes steps in as a starter in the back 3, Eski becmes our third forward behind Magee and (insert foreign star here), and we laugh all the way to a 60 point season.
Very nice analysis. I think you're being overly generous to the young guys. There's no way that Arena, Nugent, LeBlanc, and Regan all stay even if they were willing to work for slave wages. Bob shouldn't keep a guy who cannot play just because he's cheap or free. Of those four, I'd give Nugent the best (and possibly only) shot of staying because of our lack of depth in that position and his links to Bob. None of the other three would be missed. Also, I'd probably dump Edgar and start clean on the SIs. Bring in two to start the season (in order of need: forward, outside mid, d-mid), hold the third for any good deals that come available. I wouldn't be surprised if Esky ended up here somehow next year.
No, but that's not why they'll stay: They'll stay because they're cheap and likely better than anyone else out there at the same cost. Last year was a bumper crop of Pro-40s and we're not likely to see the same this draft in both quantity or quality. So while none of Nugent, LeBlanc or Arena are likely going to contribute anything meaningful next season, they're probably nos. 22, 23 and 24 on the depth chart, and at that level I think you stick with guys who know the system unless there's someone clearly, inarguably better about. And I don't put Regan in the same category as the other guys as I think he'll be good enough to start in this league by game 1 of next year.
...not enough people are able to realistically look at the big picture like it's been done in this thread...on the other hand, when your team is so close to a Cup or is in the position we were in so late in the season, rationale goes out the window and you truly believe you can win, and we should...being the in position we are in now, we can acknowledge the mess bradly inherited before the season, and appreciate the highs this team gave us with what it had to work with...more importantly, like Matrim said, we are in a much better position than a year ago...i think bob and this core has to be given a chance before people start going crazy all the time, it would be easier to just plan around winning it all in one year, but you want a championship core, a team that will win year after year... ...also, i've been wanting to say this much about moreno despite all the hatin towards him...people question why we even got him, but he's really eddie pope at the forward position in the sense that what kills their overall value is their penchant for getting injured...the man is not past his prime, and unlike clint, they were raving about his positive attitude despite the frustrations of his injuries...our top priority by far is the forward position, but as we've seen, it's not so easy to want one and just go out and get a solid forward...i would love to bring in a new one, but would not be surprised if we saw moreno come back at a lesser salary (hopefully pairing up top with another SI)...im sure our forward situation will eventually earn itself its own thread sooner than not, but i just think moreno gets hated on a lot and he doesnt necessarily deserve most of it
first to let go would be Tim Regan - just doesn't look like a soccer player Clint Mathis - he needs a change Jacob LeBlanc (P-40) - must be others better then him out there Andrzej Juskowiak (SI) - senior international spot we need someone younger Juan Forchetti (TI) - did not prove good enough José Galván (TI ) - same Kenny Arena (DP) - loan him to A league second wave after some thought and consideration Joe Addo - its time to move on retire, A league poss Edgar Bartolomeu (SI)- not good enough for a senior international spot Mike Magee (P-40)- he is a cute boy, try A league Jaime Moreno (SI) - i like him, but I like metros more, we need to move on and get better senior international, unless he fully recovers and proves himself fast Richie Williams - he is a hard worker but we could trade him for younger and better player Craig Ziadie - has green card or citizenship, sometimes has a good game, depending on salary if to high trade him we would be left with 12 players, maybe a streach to get replacements, lets see, 2 SI,two argentines, couple Dev/ P-40, there are 6 already, we need 4 or 5 more from trades, its doable
He did against San Jose during the 2-0 win. I rated him an 8 out of 10 for that one. The only bad performance he's put in this year (while in the midfield) was the finale against New England. I'm willing to give him a mulligan for that one. What in particular don't you like about his game? He's relatively athletic and efficient with the ball, good on the tackle and no prone to positional mistakes. What do you see that doesn't translate? Not likely, as we won't pick until 14th at the earliest (unless we get something in a trade). And really, I thought he looked pretty good against New England. Relatively clever with the ball, and not afraid to shoot. Not a bad idea. Why? He takes people on, is clever around the box, and an opportunistic finisher. 7 goals as a rookie is just one short of the pre-2003 record. And he's just 19! Besides being, erm, too "cute", what do you find flawed in his game? Are we going to get Dev/P-40 players who are better than what we already have? In a draft that supposed to be weak to begin with, we don't pick until the second round. Not likely to be a lot of quality there. And picking up 4 or 5 quality players from trades means we're going to have to part with quality players, draft picks (which we don't have), or allocation (which you have us using on SI's) ourselves. How do you propose we do this?
ok well i did say the second wave of players after some thought and consideration, would look to see if the replacebles are better or not first. we need to get rid of the weak elements and would love to have reserve teams or to be able to loan players to A legue for a year have this Dev and P-40 play day in day out competitive soccer. Certainly there must be better prospects out there in the youth ranks, even A-league. I know it aint as easy as we must work within salary cap in the real world of MLS. But we all agree changes need to be made and those are my picks. M Magee need to join the World Gym, he needs to put on some muscle, a year in the A league would do him great.
I can't believe everyone's talking about the off season already - Whatsa matter fellas? Don't think the the boys are going to knock in 3 or 4 on Sunday?
Seems a bit far-fetched - but we've scored 3 against New England twice this year, so it's not out of the realm. I suspect, however, that even if we somehow advance, Clint, Moreno, Ziadie, Jusko and Addo won't be back next year. That's $$$ and roster space to play with, and a chance to make the team much more dangerous than it has been this season.
Spot on analysis, even more so that it's in this forum. One thing and I can't get my mind around is Jusko. Something deep down inside me wants to keep him next year. To be fair to him, he was thrown in late and his strike partnership has been less then stellar. I can see him linking up with a Buddle/ Johnson type player and really making a contribution. Let him play as a target and have a strong speedy player link up off him. Granted we need to get better play in the middle and maybe a wing who can cross the ball. Lets be honest SI slots aint what they used to be, and Jusko in the limited action I have seen may be the best passer of the ball we have ever had play up top for us. He just hasnt been on the same page with Clint, et al. Unless Bob finds a better option, I say we give him one more chance. Also I can see Jolley moved in a trade. He is our only player that has trade value that I could see Bob moving.
Jusko's the type of player who needs a very creative midfield behind him to set him up. He's a finisher, and he sets others up well, but he never creates his own chances. Until and unless our midfield becomes a more coherent offensive force, I think Jusko will continue to fail to impress. If he comes into next season in-shape he may be worth keeping around. But he seems like a very particular type of player who will make the team play around him, rather than the type of guy who would contribute in any role as defined by the coach. I think there's probably a better SI for our money out there, whether we can find him or not is another question. I dunno... if you trade Jolley you'd better get an all-star central defender in return (or somehow). With Pope out for Nats and injuries and Jolley gone, our defense would be a sieve. I can't think of any possible trade for Jolley that would make sense for us. Also, there are plenty of guys on the team who have trade value (although I'm not sure of their salary/contract situations, which will affect transactions more than anything else). Lisi, Ziadie, Leitch, Digiamarino, even Richie Williams. Then there's the roster-protected players (LeBlanc, Arena, Nugent) who I could see shipping off for a draft pick. All have some trade value depending on the situation.
Wahoo! Page 2, let the mudslingin' begin! Seriously, spot on analysis. Nagging issue for me is still Clint Mathis on another team. I imagine Andy Williams times 2. I think he has been improving slowly this season (regardless of goals, he would have had 8 more assists if there was another forward on the same page). Feel bad for Moreno. All indications were that this was his comeback year.
Agree on the midfield. Disagree on Jolley. If we are going to play 3 in the back for most of next year, I would be mor comfortable with a player that is more mobile than Jolley. Mind you I am not saying we need to trade Jolley, but if you want something good in return you need to give something up. And I dont think any of those guys are really tradeable. Ziadie- play has regressed- Middle round draft pick at best Lisi- Maybe a #2 pick at the most Leitch- I would rather keep him. Lets not forget we picked him off waivers this ear from the Crew. Digi- I think he has played his way out of any trade value. Richie Williams- Nothing needs to be said about his value And the roster protected guys are would be using the same reasons to trade as keeping. Unless we are packaging them with a tradeable player, then I say we keep them.
I dont know if I agree with that assumption. If Clint isn't playing well here, and he never will, to hold him back from another team just so he cant come back and bite us is a poor move. Unlike MLB for example we have so few roster spots with such a small cap and pool of available players, I would find it hard to stomach him and his salary just to keep him off someone elses books. A lot of us figured that if Clint can't get it together for Bob, then there is no hope for him. I think we are about to cross that bridge.
No way. Second in the league in assists, first in assists per minute, numerous examples of late-game heroics. If we trade him for anything less than a top-level defender and a high pick, I'd be both shocked and disappointed.
This team does not need to be gutted. The priorities are one more solid central defender (I'm assuming a 3-5-2 here) and one superstar forward (to replace the not so super Mathis, who looks to be very much on his way out.). Everything else comes second. To be perfectly honest, this team is better than last year's version - also don't we all remember how many games we managed to eke out at the end...they are not a great team, just an average team that works hard. This is better than last year's crap and giving up squad. Walker Pope-Jolley-???????? Gaven-Rico-Lisi-Guevara-Edgar ???????-Magee/Woly/Jusko I hope Rongen calls up Eddie for Tunisia. Also is Jusko's contract up this year, because if it isn't, we're stuck with him unless someone is willing to pay a transfer fee. More importantly we have some depth as Leitch, and two of the other forwards, and Edgar, are better than our bench players of the past. And if we acquire more than two players (probable), our bench is even stronger. There is hope for optimism, it's just that the Metros overacheived in the early part of the season, pushing up expectations, and when they returned to form, there was (is) much bitterness. Of course, off the field is and always will be a mess as long as Nick is around. I also would guess some contract info (who still has contracts, who is an FA this year) would help in figuring out what is going to happen.
As much as I like Edgar, I think we need to add a top level wing mid to that shopping list. At times this season, our midfield has looked awful, and that was mostly due to the fact we could never go wide. Gaven at right mid is acceptable I guess, but I prefer to see the kid in the middle of the field or up front. Problem with that is with Lisi, Guevara, Clark et al, those spots are a bit crowded.
Let 'em go - Edgar - He's no Villegas and we've be poor on the wing side since Chung left. Chuung also had a nice cross. Arena-LeBlanc-Regan - Don't have it. Even Reagan. Cliint, Moreno - saving lotsa money here Juskowiak - I think the check bounced on him anway. The Boca Boys - please, they have to be able to play the sport before they are even considered. Graffer - I really like the guy, but seeing what DC went thru and how they coped, made me realise Paul is not enough to depend on. Maybe Richie - Won't stay back and just handle his job, screws up the midfield too much - may be fixable though, and Bob likes him Keep the rest Jolly - is the only real tie to the old Metro and he plays very well. The rest of the team is a nice core. Between Walker and Gaven and Guevara, Lisi, Pope, Magee, Woly getting better ... lots to like. I even like the Nuge. What we need most - What we need most - A striker with experience. Granted every team wants a star striker. It would really help if we had someone who could not only put it in the net but serve to help bring the rest of the team up to that standard. Yea, I mean a killer player who is a nice team player. Take the money from Moreno, Jusko, Clint and if we can find this guy, spend it all. So many other MLS teams have one, two or three quality dependable consistent strikers....and we don't. We also need that maturity. No not someone over the hill, but someone with enough self confidence and composure that it begins to affect our team play as a whole.