I was watching Arsenal on ESPN this week (don't worry I still love DC United and MLS, but I just got TiVo and it recorded it for me--very cool) and noticed that their stadium clocks count down not up. Interesting...
First of all, I don't think Arsenal was on ESPN this week--I think it was on the regional Fox broadcast (Arsenal v. Fulham) However, I could be very mistaken--in which case I'd be pissed because of missing Arsenal on tv... Highbury park does, indeed, count down. But the key difference is that whereas the count hits zero, the ref still has the final say as to when the game ends, and has full discretion to add as much time as he deems necessary. I couldn't care less about whether the in-stadium clock counted up or down (I'm more used to watching a game by the clock as it counts up, though) as long as the ref has the final whistle.
In all our youth games the clock counts down (maybe school scoreboard clocks can only go that way), but the scorekeeper has been instructed to shut off the clock as it reaches 1:00 left to play in the half/game. The referee then still has the final whistle. I agree I really couldn't care if the clock counts up or down, as long as you retain the refs decision of how much time to add and when to whistle the end.
No one is saying the ref shouldn't have control of the time. However, official time should be put on public display. There isn't any other aspect of soccer or any aspect of any sport that is kept secret like that.
I disagree. This is one of the beauties of our sport, the fact that when the game is over, it's not really over. Is there ever a more nailbiting time than in the 90th when your team is one down and pressuring the net. You almost go crazy because you don't exactly know when time will run out.
Other than the salary cap, player salaries, player allocation rules, and certain roster rules (oh yes, and those well publicized "weighted lotteries").
I think the distinction between count up v. count down as opposed to secret official time v. public official time is a good one. I'll agree the uncertainty is fun, but on the other hand I think secret official time encourages time wasting by teams with leads. We all know that referees never give back as much time as is wasted.
who cares what the scoreboard clock says. 45 mins is 45 mins. What is important is the watch on the refs wrist.
PZ, thanks for such a well thought out and insightful addition to this thread. It's people like you who make BigSoccer so interesting and fun.
I think this statement is wrong. I don't think it's the secret time that makes teams with the lead waste time--it's the fact that they're in the lead. Whether the time is secret or out in the open, the team with the lead will waste it. But by having the time out for all to see, the team with the lead has that much more control over how to waste the time, because they'll know exactly how much time to waste.
Teams that are ahead will waste as much time as is possible regardless of whether there's a public display of time. In fact, this would probably encourage time wasting, unless you wanted to stop the game and readjust the clock every few minutes.
You are correct if the referee allows the clock to continue to run when time is being wasted. In that case he does give control over to the team with a lead. However, if the referee simply makes a clock stoppage signal whenever a team isn't promptly taking a goal kick or throw in--or when they play keep away preventing the other team from restarting play quickly--then public time keeping ensures that the team trying to waste time can't count on the current fact that referees keeping secret time never give back as much time at the end as was wasted. Imagine if you are a player on a team with a lead and the referee stops the public clock whenever your team wastes time, you'll know right at that moment that you aren't getting any benefit out of doing it. (Sort of like training a dog... you have to punish them while they are doing something bad, not later.) By the way... when I talk about time wasting I'm talking about when the ball is out of play. When it's in play you can walk while you dribble if the other team will let you.
I'm not sure if anyone reading this thread is a little confused or not, but just in case - although the clock is counting down it isn't stopped when the ball is out of play or anything like that. There's no suggestion that when it hits zero the game should be over. Normally when it get to zero, or very near to zero the time added on (as indicated by the fourth official) is indicated, although the clock doesn't keep counting beyond zero. Essentially, although the clock is counting down the referee never indicates for the clock to be stopped, it records elapsed time, nothing more.
> This is one of the beauties of our sport, the fact > that when the game is over, it's not really over. Not only is this not true, I can prove it is not true. In every other facet of human entertainment that is based on time, we always include a countdown to the exact moment that time runs out. When Seven of Nine has to fix the warp plasma intermixer before the core breaches, the computer always tells here how much time is left down to the second. When James Bond has to deactivate the nuclear bomb, the bad guy always is kind enough to leave a timer on it. It is human nature that we are better at comparitive measurements than absolute measurements. If you give me a stick, I would be hard pressed to say if it was 30, 32 or 35 inches long. But give me two sticks and I can tell you which is bigger right away - down to fractions of an inch. By knowing the exact time, players can better regulate their play - comparing their output to the time left - so that they give the maximum amount of effort. Also, when time is secret, it means that there is an aspect under the control of refs that we cannot see or judge. Through imcompetance or corruption he can change the course of a game, and in only the grossest cases is it even detected - and even then usually nothing is done about it.