I don't think it has been released yet, so names must be withheld, but Clemson has added two forwards to their recruiting class that will be eligible to play this fall. Both players are forwards, and from what I have been able to find out, are extremely talented individuals. One is from South Africa, the other I believe is from Australia. I'm sure there will be a press release soon with the names and more bio information. If these two guys live up to their billing they should be immediate contributors to Clemson, and factors in the conference. More to come...
Press Release Clemson Press Release: Carlton Hughes and James Georgeff have both signed letters of intent to play soccer at Clemson in the fall of 2003 as announced by Clemson Head Men's Soccer Coach Trevor Adair. Carlton Hughes of Riverview, South Africa played on the Chelsea Futbol Club of South Africa. He was selected for the Shakes Mashaba identification program, which is the South Africa U23 National Pool. He was selected as one of the top 30 players in South Africa in 2001. He will play in the midfield or as a forward. James Georgeff of New South Wales, Australia played for the Newcastle Breakers National Youth League team from 1999-2001. He was an alternate for the U17 Australian National Team pool. He will play the position of forward for the Tigers.
Why does Trevor feel the need to go overseas to get players? I don't get it, frankly. Most American kids would kill to go to Clemson....you can't tell me that the American pool was dried up.
Overseas Well, I can't speak for Trevor but I can give you my input on the situation from working in college athletics. The NCAA allows some sports to award partial scholarships, men's soccer is allowed 9.9 and they almost always broken up among all the players. Many players will make a decision on where they go to school depending on how much money they are offered. Americans (kids and parents) try to play these coaches against one another to get more money out of them. They listen to the offer, then say that Coach Whoever is offering more money and they are leaning towards that school in hopes to get more money out of the school that they really want to go to. Simply put, they play the game and I know several coaches at a variety of differnt sports that get sick and tired of dealing with parents that hassle and haggle over the difference of 5% scholarship. It's crazy. Foreign players don't act like this because they aren't spoiled and they are usually so happy to get the opportunity to come to the US and study/play that they gladly accept what is offered. The foreign players are also a lot more loyal to coaches and their commitments. I've seen it a lot. I was a national team game once and overheard a coach that just had his team in the Final Four. He was on the phone with a parent who was obviously trying to get more money out of him. He simply told him that "if your son wants to go play at that level for 85% rather than coming to a national contender for 80% then I made a mistake in recruiting him." The kid committed right then and there. Coaches get sick of that everytime they try and recruit somebody... Even so, what's wrong with recruiting foreign players? Do you realize how many thousands and thousands of foreign students are on American campuses? I know schools, especially technological schools, recruit foreign students to come study, so why shouldn't it happen for them to play soccer. Most importantly, to me at least, is Trevor Adair's job. Or any coach for that matter. College athletics is a business: Be good or be gone. He owes it to himself to field the best team that he possibly can. If that requires him getting foreign players, so be it, it's his program and his job on the line.
Roster This is a link to Clemson's 2002 Roster. http://clemsontigers.ocsn.com/sports/m-soccer/mtt/clem-m-soccer-mtt.html There are 3 foreign players on that roster. If I'm not mistaken, all 3 of those are now gone, so these new guys will be the only 2. I don't see where that is a pattern of recruiting behavior.
Fixxer, I don't argue that players - and their parents - try to get as much out of coaches as possible and play them against each other. But let's not pretend that isn't a two-way street. I don't know what Marfuggi, Chevanes and Ogunsola got out of Trevor in terms of scholarship money but I bet that if Trevor could have signed them for less, he would have. And, he's not wrong for doing so. His job is to spread the scholarships out among as many players as possible and if can get a good player to come for less than he would take elsewhere by saying "this is my final offer and if you don't take it, it's going to Player Y." That also happens. Like you said, it's a business and I don't fault the players for trying to get as much out of the program that's recruiting them as possible. As far as the foreign thing, I personally don't like to see programs of Clemson's caliber have to rely on foreign players because they don't have to. I've criticized Ray Reid for the same thing and I have to hold Trevor to the same standard. I mean, UCLA has won it all without foreigners, Maryland is a preseason No. 1 with only two foreigners and both of them went to HS in the US, Virginia's dynasty was built without international players and they still don't use any, etc., etc., I know nothing about the two players Trevor is bringing in but I find it hard to believe that there aren't two American HS seniors who are just as good who would have liked to have come to a program like Clemson if they were getting an offer. However, after losing in the Elite Eight for the umpteenth time last fall, Trevor said that maybe it was time to recruit a different type of player. Perhaps this is what he meant and this is the direction he decided to take because he felt the US players he was recruiting weren't mentally tough enough to make it to the Final Four. I personally don't think that's the case but I can see why Trevor might be wanting to try something else to get him over the hump. And, as someone who has pointed out his Elite Eight failures in the past, I have to applaud him for trying something new, even if I don't agree with it. For his sake, I hope this works as I've always liked Trevor and the Clemson program but for the sake of American players, I kinda hope it doesn't.
I think too much is being made of this honestly. Trevor lost all 3 of his foreign players from last season and now he gets two. So, as far as the anti-foreign sentiment goes, Trevor is doing better. I must say that I think a lot of the foreign players add a lot of flavor to the game and the programs. Not only is it great for them, but it's great for the American kids to experience people from other cultures. I'd be willing to be that the foreign kids are some of the more popular players on the teams, and probably on campus. When I started following soccer I thought that was what made it so great. People that didn't even speak the same language could come together on the pitch and play a game. Like I said earlier, I really don't get what the fuss is about. If the American kids are good enough, they will get scholarships and roster spots. Finally!!! Someone signed a player that Sandon doesn't know about!! It took a while to do, along with some really long plane flights. Seriously though, I know college coaches spend half their lives recruiting and while you can't see everybody, I gotta believe they saw the best of the best. If he saw these kids and they were better, then if he can, he should sign them. Once again, I can't speak for what a coach thinks, but I think his comments after that game were said with a bit of emotion. Sure there is some truth in it, but I don't think he changed a lot during his recruiting process. He saw the holes that needed to be filled and tried to fill those with the best possible players.
Re: Overseas My understanding, and it may be wrong, is that foreign "students" have available "scholarship" funding that doesn't "count" against the Athletic budget. Is there a cap on the number of foreign players in Div I? Why don't coaches just get eleven or twelve u-23's from Jamaica or Trinidad national teams and call it a day? I know my kid was a bit of a gift to his new college coach's budget because he had academic scholarship money available that made him "cheaper to recruit", especially at this school, than some other midfielders. Does anyone out there have the true skinny?
The true skinny is that college coaches who recruit these foreign kids do so for the "quick fix." A large portion of these players will play one season, and then return home to Europe, South America, Australia, etc. Foreign college players see it this way...they're in essence getting paid to play, because they're getting a full ride, and for a good portion of these players, school is way down on the priority list. So for them, they get a free year in the states to play soccer. I don't know if their scholarship money doesn't count against the 9.9 allowable, but you can bet your bottom dollar that college coaches are working every angle possible. Here's what the coach will tell you....that he has to offer a full ride to get a foreign kid, due to the cost, etc. That's a bullsh__ argument if you ask me. These coaches offer partials to regional team starters, and national pool players, then find some 24 year old hack from overseas and give him a full. But maybe more importantly, there is still a very strong bias AGAINST American players in this country, by many coaches who hail from other parts of the world. I've seen it, and it does exist. It's especially true with European college coaches. To say it doesn't exist, is naive. Sandon is right...Virginia built a POWERHOUSE using only American players when BA was there, and it can be done. And, I don't buy the argument that American kids play both ends against the middle by "negotiating" offers between 2 or more coaches.
So it's OK to have foreign coaches but not have foreign players? I would expect a foreign coach to recruit foreign players. Where do you think there network comes from? How/Where do you think that they hear about players? Maybe we should close up the borders and not let anyone else in the country.... Then you are fooling yourself. I've seen/heard parents do it and I KNOW it happens. To say that it doesn't tells me your responses are more emotional than factual. Maybe you can give me some example because this has not been my experience at all. I know a few foreign kids that played college soccer. Some play(ed) MLS, a few tried A-League, I know of one that is teaching and preparing for graduate school....so your argument holds no water with me. I tell you another thing, a lot of the foreign players were a lot more respectful and appreciative of what they had been given than the American kids.
FIXXXER, my comments are based on the fact I've been following college soccer for more than 20 years. Look at the University of Kentucky last season to confirm my post...and that's just one example. Look, I'm not saying we should close the borders, but I'm saying that American kids are not getting the respect they deserve. As far as kids negotiating for more money between coaches...well you know what, that's the system, and you can thank the NCAA for that. If they had more than 9.9 scholarships, then that wouldn't be the case. That wasn't the case for us personally. However, had I been more knowledgable during the recruiting process, that may have been our approach too. Who knows. One other thing....if I saw more opportunities for American kids to play overseas, maybe I'd be a little less negative about foreigners coming over here and taking roster spots from our own homegrown talent. Does that make me a homer? Yes, but so what? Once again....UVA did it the right way, with American players, and let's face it...our country is producing many more talented players today than it was in the 80's and 90's.
Mike...great post. Your friend in Northern Virginia is right, let the buyer beware. We fell victim to that, I'm sorry to say...unfulfilled promises by a coach who didn't put it in writing, but nonetheless, I was brought up to believe that a man's word is worth something. How wrong I was. In the game of college soccer, if it's not in writing, it ain't worth squat, and you can take that to the bank. Yes, a lot of high school kids and their parents are gullible, but more than that, these coaches get away with lying through their teeth. I don't know how some of these coaches sleep at night.
luvdabears... you make it sound like just because a kid is recruited into a program he's entitled to a spot in the starting lineup. the fact is, he has to earn his way into the lineup once he gets there. the bottom line is that when players come into a program, everything they've done up to that point is forgotten and they start with a clean slate. coaches offer scholarships on the potential they see in high school athletes and then it's up to the athlete to realize that potential. if they don't, they don't play, regardless of what the coach had "promised." these "promises" are conditional, the players have to come through on their "promise" of being a great player before the coaches are going to follow through- you can't expect it to be any different.
project-40's role I enjoyed reading everyone's posts and agree with the majority of the statements, but I wanted to throw another topic into the ring and that is project-40. Top college programs have to be aware of project-40 and the pool of players they are targeting. Project-40 only targets attack-minded players year in and year out ( Eddie Gaven, Memo, Corey Ashe...etc...), so every top program who needs to replace a attacking player is recruiting the same kids. If you lose out on those kids, many of the other kids have already made decisions and you are forced to look elsewhere. If you look at Clemson's situation these players are committing in June, so I would be shocked if they did not exhaust all thier options, before choosing to go overseas. Another issue with project-40 is that while they allow some kids to go to school ( mostly defenders) , if they do well they will be after them in a year's time ( i.e. Chad Marshall..etc...). Most foreign players who attend universities have either made a decision to go to school or have not made it professionally and are forced to go to school. They are not looking to leave after a year for the professional ranks and because of their foreign status are ineligible for project-40. So by targeting these players you may be able to keep them for 4 years before you have to do it again. So right or wrong,college coaches have to play the cards they are dealt. I think if you look at the way project-40 has worked over the years you would see where the problem lies. Schools who continue to recruit and develop players are raided every year by project-40 and forced to start over. Recruiting foreign players is not ideal, but sometimes they may be the best options considering the environment.
Re: project-40's role Not true. Chad Marshall, Brandon Owens, Jonathan Spector, Nelson Akwari, Oguchi Onyewu etc. could have signed Project-40 contracts straight out of Bradenton. Do you really think Seth Trembly was the #1 defensive target of MLS from the '99 U17 team?
Re: Re: Exactly Which Defenders???...name one U17 defender or for that matter any defender that has skipped HS and gone straight to the pros...I wouldn't call that not very successful I would refer to that as non-existent... Exactly..which is why they didn't sign or maybe MLS isn't offering them enough to make it worth thier while cause MLS doesn't put a high priority on young American defenders???? Exactly...which is why they are going overseas..to avoid having to deal with this environment
Re: Re: Re: Exactly Seth Trembly (LB) is the only U-17 defender that signed with MLS straight from Bradenton. The other defenders that received MLS offers (Owens, Spector, Marshall, Gooch, Akwari) didn't feel they were ready for MLS or didn't like the money or had European aspirations or whatever. But, THEY STILL HAD OFFERS FROM MLS. MLS felt they were ready enough to give them a Project-40 offer. MLS wanted them before they went to college. You original post stated that MLS didn't offer contracts to defenders pre-college. You were wrong, so I felt the need to respond. They offered the same low Project-40 contracts they offered the offensive players. However, the young defenders aren't physically prepared to battle with MLS forwards at 18 years old unless they are VERY gifted and mature. The players feel they aren't ready, so they aren't going to MLS right away.
The simple answer here is that each college coach must fill needs. Clemson with graduations and transfers needed attacking players. Remember Dwayne Jones decided to leave late in the Spring, so early in the recruiting season Trevor might have felt good about his attacking players but with Jones leaving this led to a need that was discovered late in the recruiting season so yes maybe the pickings were not as good as going overseas, Another thing is we don't know how long Trevor has been working on these two recruits as he must go through all the ncaa paperwork to insure they are eligible to play college soccer. Just a couple of ideas on why Trevor chose to go abroad for talent.
I had not heard about Dwayne Jones? Where is he transferring to? About the defenders and P40, I know that MLS gets enticed by goal-scorers and is willing to pay them more to leave early than they would defenders. There's nothing really too controversial there as attackers traditionally make more than defenders, as rule, world wide, though there are obvious exceptions. So, if MLS has X-amount to pay on P40 players, they are more prone to use a bigger chunk of it on attackers. For instance, I know for a fact the offer Alecko Eskandarian got was higher than the offer Chris Wingert got even though Wingert was just as good a defender as a junior that Esky was as a forward as a junior. Also, Mike Magee, Tino Quaranta and Eddie Johnson got bigger offers than Chad Marshall did. For these defenders, it makes more sense to stay in school or wait for a Euro offer. Look at Onyewu, Yi, Salyer, Spector - all these guys originally took the money in Europe. The difference between 25 and 40K may only be 15 thousand dollars but it is make or break for a lot of players when it comes to deciding to leave and MLS is more likely to give the 40 (or more) to an attacker than a back. That's just the way it is and until MLS puts more emphasis on signing the defenders - any by emphasis I mean spending more money to get them to give up school entirely or leave early - we're going to see this gap between attackers and backs at the youth national team level.
True The Project 40 money also can change quite a bit based on how a player does in the combine and their ultimate draft position. They get their base money but the first GK, defender, midfielder and forward taken get a bonus on top of the original offer. The round that a player is taken also influences the the final salary. There may be a misunderstanding that all the P-40 players get the same salary and that is not true. The other point to be made here is that attacking players can get minutes even when playing over their heads because their mistakes probably won't cost their team the game. Defenders at every level can cost their team the match with just one mistake so they are likely to find more playing time to aid in their development at the college level.