Classic XI

Discussion in 'Soccer History' started by Naui_Ocelotl, Nov 17, 2008.

  1. kingkong1

    kingkong1 New Member

    Nov 12, 2007
    Rio, Brazil
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Some Classic Rio de Janeiro XIs:

    Starters:

    Manga (BOT)
    CarlosAlberto (FLU) - Leandro (FLA) - Domingos da Guia (FLA) - Nilton Santos (BOT)
    Didi (BOT) - Zizinho (FLA)
    Garrincha (BOT) - Zico (FLA) - Leônidas da Silva (FLA) - Júlio 'Uri Geller' César (FLA - in his prime, 'the best left-wing of the world' - César Luís Menotti)

    Subs:

    Castilho (FLU)
    Jorginho (FLA) - Edinho FLU) - Aldair (FLA) - Marinho Chagas (BOT)
    Gérson (FLA/BOT) - Jair da Rosa Pinto (VAS)
    Bebeto (FLA) - Romário (VAS) - Ronaldo (S. CRIST) - Zagallo (FLA/BOT)

    Sub-subs:

    Barbosa (VAS)
    Paulo Henrique (FLA) - Ricardo Gomes (FLU) - Brito (VAS) - Júnior (FLA)
    Djalminha (FLA) - Evaristo (FLA)
    Amoroso (BOT - 60's Garrincha's sub) - Ademir (VAS) - Vavá (VAS) - Vevé (FLA)

    FLA - Flamengo
    VAS - Vasco da Gama
    BOT - Botafogo
    FLU - Fluminense
     
  2. deleted

    deleted Member

    Aug 18, 2006
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    ballack was a joke btw!
     
  3. dor02

    dor02 Member

    Aug 9, 2004
    Melbourne
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    How about Fritz Walter or Helmut Rahn? No Matthaeus?
     
  4. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    1st Team

    .........................Ubaldo Fillol
    .......Daniel Passarella.......Oscar Ruggeri
    Jorge Olguin................................Silvio Marzolini
    ........................Fernando Redondo
    ....Omar Sivori....Alfredo Di Stefano...Diego Maradona
    ............Mario Kempes....Gabriel Batistuta

    2nd Team

    ......................Amadeo Carrizo
    .......Roberto Perfumo...Roberto Ayala
    Javier Zanetti.........................Alberto Tarantini
    ...........Antonio Rattin....Luis Monti
    ....................Charro Moreno
    ..Raimundo Orsi...Luis Artime...Angel Labruna

    I'm sure I missed some important players, but you can't go wrong with these guys.
     
  5. kingkong1

    kingkong1 New Member

    Nov 12, 2007
    Rio, Brazil
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Yep:

    Stábile, Lostau, Pedernera, Cejas, Ramos Delgado, Rossi, San Filippo, Roma, Brindisi, Luque, Valdano, Canniggia, Simeone, Crespo, Riquelme, Messi etc etc

    Enough for two other Classic XIs ;) ...
     
  6. deleted

    deleted Member

    Aug 18, 2006
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    yeah, take your pick in place of ballack

    i'd probably kick out schuster too
     
  7. spc3sc

    spc3sc Member+

    Jul 24, 2008
    Club:
    Sporting Cristal Lima
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    I find it amazing that Ibáñez is indeed probably our best goalkeeper ever :eek:
     
  8. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Also great choices, no doubt. Rattin himself would demand that his boyhood idol Pipo Rossi be put ahead of himself at DM.
     
  9. dor02

    dor02 Member

    Aug 9, 2004
    Melbourne
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Perú FC, what are your thoughts on Alberto Gallardo and Geronimo Barbadillo?
     
  10. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    I think they were great forwards, but I couldn't put in for the large number of forwards have Peru in its history, the same reason why I didn't consider impressive players in that position like Pedro León, Franco Navarro, Juan José Muñante, Julio Baylón, Percy Rojas or Alejandro Villanueva.

    P.D.: I definitely forgot defender Julio Meléndez who should be in the initial eleven :eek:.
     
  11. kingkong1

    kingkong1 New Member

    Nov 12, 2007
    Rio, Brazil
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    As I said.

    A hell of a great generation.

    Hope Perú looks back to those glorious times and get back soon to the world football forefront :) .
     
  12. dor02

    dor02 Member

    Aug 9, 2004
    Melbourne
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Did Barbadillo play as a forward in Peru? When he was at Avellino and Udinese, they used him as right-winger.
     
  13. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    He was a winger. Here a winger is a forward player, isn't there?
     
  14. dor02

    dor02 Member

    Aug 9, 2004
    Melbourne
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    True. Sometimes it's not easy to determine the two positions because some players who are wide midfielders (like in a 4-4-2 formation) are labelled by some people as wingers. They're just not labelled as wingers in a traditional manner. For instance, I wouldn't classify players like Garrincha, Matthews and Hamrin as midfielders.

    In Barbadillo's case, he would have been a forward in a 5-2-3 or 4-3-3 formation during his time in the Serie A, not a midfielder.
     
  15. uamiranda

    uamiranda Member

    Jun 18, 2008
    Club:
    Vitoria Salvador
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Gilmar​

    Djalma Santos...Domingos da Guia...Bauer...Nilton Santos​

    Zito​

    Garrincha...Didi...Zizinho​

    Pelé...Leônidas​


    Subs:

    Taffarel​

    Carlos Alberto...Luís Pereira...Mauro...Roberto Carlos​

    Falcão​

    Gérson...Zico...Rivelino​

    Ronaldo...Romário​
     
  16. kingkong1

    kingkong1 New Member

    Nov 12, 2007
    Rio, Brazil
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    At last a twin soul!...

    UAMiranda & I agree in almost everything:

    Classic XI

    [FONT=&quot](By UAMiranda)

    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Gilmar[/FONT]​

    [FONT=&quot]Djalma Santos...Domingos da Guia...Bauer...Nilton Santos[/FONT]​

    [FONT=&quot]Zito[/FONT]​

    [FONT=&quot]Garrincha...Didi...Zizinho[/FONT]​

    [FONT=&quot]Pelé...Leônidas[/FONT]​

    [FONT=&quot]Subs[/FONT][FONT=&quot]:[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Taffarel[/FONT]​

    [FONT=&quot]Carlos Alberto...Luís Pereira...Mauro...Roberto Carlos[/FONT]​

    [FONT=&quot]Falcão[/FONT]​

    [FONT=&quot]Gérson...Zico...Rivelino[/FONT]​

    [FONT=&quot]Ronaldo...Romário

    [/FONT]​
    [FONT=&quot]***

    [/FONT]​
    [FONT=&quot](By KingKong1)

    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Gilmar

    Carlos Alberto...Domingos da Guia...Nilton Santos

    Didi...Zizinho

    Garrincha...Pelé...Leônidas...Tostão...Rivelino[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Subs[/FONT][FONT=&quot]:[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Taffarel[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

    Djalma Santos...Luís Pereira...Marinho Chagas

    Zito...Gérson...Evaristo

    Julinho Botelho...Jairzinho...Zico...Canhoteiro

    [/FONT]​

    Best National Teams Of All Times

    [FONT=&quot](By UAMiranda)


    [/FONT]
    Brazil 1970
    Hungary 1954
    Holland 1974
    Brazil 1958
    Germany 1972-1974
    Brazil 1982
    France 1998-2000

    [FONT=&quot]***

    [/FONT]​
    [FONT=&quot](By KingKong1)

    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Brazil (1958-1962-1970)[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Hungary 1954[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Holland 1974[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]***

    [/FONT]​
    The ‘almosts’:

    For me it’s a sin not have Tostão in the starting team (the Tostão of Cruzeiro and not the one of 1970, when he played half-blind), and have Garrincha in the middle just in name of the symmetry Pelé-Leônidas.

    With a pleiad of players like that Brazil is one of the only teams of the planet (maybe the only one) that might afford starting with 5 forwards, what would make justice to its historically formidable offensive tradition (this Brazil needs no ‘tactics’: all it’s got to do is…attack).

    Two players in the midfield (Brz’s best ever: Didi, Zizinho) would be enough to give the touch of class.

    In defense I could see Djalma Santos in place of Carlos Alberto and Bauer side-by-side with Da Guia, but since the proposal here is a totally offensive team (i.e., 5 forwards), we'd obligatorilly have to have 3 men on defense; besides for offensive purposes Carlos Alberto would fit better on the right along with Nilton Santos on the left.

    The only player fixed in defense would be Domingos da Guia (we’d forgive him and Gilmar for the considerable amount of goals they’d have to allow. No problem to them: with forwards like that, to each goal they’d accept Brazil would easily score five or seven).

    Whoever it be (Hungary 54, Germany 74, or even non-orthodox Holland 74) the adversary (even, in the case of the 1st 2, if they used the ‘modern’ 4-3-3***) would just have (numerical) advantage in the midfield, equality in their offense x Brz defense duel, but would be absolutely clobbered by the numeric and qualitative Brazilian superiority in the attack.

    (*** Holland, in the tactical aspect, with its ‘total football’, would be the one to give that Brz the best fight, but in my opinion they’d up sinking in face of the aversary's absolutely technical superiority).

    I think it’s a sin too - as far as The Best National Teams - and even an incorrection, to dismember 1958 from 1970: the latter - although with just Pelé and Zagallo (as a coach) from the original team - was the tactical tip of the iceberg, a logical consequence of the former, and naturally also of 1962 (which practically had the same players of 58).

    1958, 1962, 1970 (and amidst them the unsuccessful 1966 team) IMHO are inseparable and belong to the same ‘linha evolutiva’.​
     
  17. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    Mago Valdivieso, Soriano and Asca should be ahead of him, peru had a few good gks in the 30's 40's and 50's

    Leao Butron will be the best of them all;)
     
  18. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    definetly deserves a starting spot...not forgetting Guillermo Delgado
     
  19. uamiranda

    uamiranda Member

    Jun 18, 2008
    Club:
    Vitoria Salvador
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil

    Actually, Tostão was really a brilliant player, but I considered the importance of Ronaldo and Romário for Brazilian team (Ronaldo the greatest scorer of all time, 15 goals and Romário almost "winning alone" WC´94).​





    That was the way Zagallo, as a coach, was "gifted" with the team qthat won WC´70. Remember that there were at least 5 players "nr. 10" in main squad: Pelé, Rivelino, Gérson, Tostão and Jairzinho.​





    Yes, but I thougt it was necessary a defensive midfielder to give balance.​





    That is a reasonable choice, but I learned to give importance to a balanced squad, so, I prefer winning 3-0 than 7-5...It´s a matter of preference.

    By the way, it´s good to find a twin soul in football :D




     
  20. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    I don't believe it, I've the impression (by theory) that Ibáñez was better than them, including Juan Valdivieso and Rafael Asca, my other options.
     
  21. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    gotta ask what that theory is

    but Valdivieso is a legend in Peru and was gk in the 1939 Copa America winning team

    and is widely considered our greatest

    most regard Quiroga as better than Ibanez

    I would even say by the time Leao Butron hangs up his gloves he will have been better than Ibanez but thats still up in the air

    Soriano also deserves some credit even do he played most of his futbol in argentina
     
  22. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    Articles in sport diaries, in internet, some "golden" descriptions in CMD and especially reports about Valdivieso when he died the last year.

    It isn't true mate, I live here in Peru and he's considered one of the best goalkeepers, but not especially the best and less widely. Here isn't a goalkeeper called the best all-time clearly, is only a group popularly of the best like Valdivieso, Asca, Quiroga, Gonzales Ganoza, Soriano and recently Balerio or Ibáñez...

    In spite of the legends have some of them, I still believe Ibáñez had better performances and was probably the best.
     
  23. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    i dunno since i was a kid it was all about el Mago Valdivieso, then guys like Asca, Honores and the rest

    woudlnt surprise me that most would probably put Valdivieso as the #1 and Ibanez not in the top 5

    but hey agree to disagree;)

    maybe a topic we should bring back to the peru forum
     
  24. hackespitze123

    Jul 24, 2008
    Germany
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany

    -------------Maier--------------
    ----------Beckenbauer----------
    --Breitner----Vogts----Brehme--
    -----------Matthäus------------
    --Walter--------------Overath--
    ------------Netzer--------------
    --------Seeler---Müller----------


    Subs:

    ------------Kahn--------------
    -----------Sammer------------
    --Förster--Kaltz--Schnellinger--
    ------------Stielike------------
    --Häßler------------Littbarski--
    -----------Schuster-----------
    ---Rummenigge---Klinsmann----


    Coach: Helmut Schön


    Honorable mentions: Heynckes, Briegel, Völler, Möller, Augenthaler, Fischer, Helmer, Hoeness, Rahn, Kohler
     
  25. deleted

    deleted Member

    Aug 18, 2006
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    yup, that would own any brazilian team!
     

Share This Page