Here are the 16 teams that made it: Lyon Bayern Arsenal Lokamotiv Moskva Monaco Depor Juve Real Sociedad ManU Stuttgart Real Madrid Porto Chelsea Sparta AC Milan Celta Vigo The restrictions for the 2nd round draw are that: 1) A team cannot play a team it played in the group stage. 2) A "seeded" team (finishing first in its group stage) will play a group runner-up (from a different group). 3) No team may play another team from its own country. The only team constrained by rule 3 is Real Madrid. 3 other Spanish teams finished runner-up, so it will play either Sparta, Stuttgart, Bayern, or Lokamotiv Moskva.
An easier way to look at this is... Each pairing will be one team from Pot A and one team from Pot B, subject to the restrictions mentioned above, with the team from Pot B hosting the first match. Pot A Lyon Arsenal Monaco Juventus Man United Real Madrid Chelsea AC Milan Pot B Bayern Munich Lok. Moscow Deportivo Real Sociedad Stuttgart Porto Sparta Prague Celta Vigo Final tally, 4 from Spain, 3 from England, 2 each from France, Italy & Germany and 1 each from Russia, Portugal and Czech Republic. Gotta be considered a failure for Italy to only have two teams advance and for NONE from Greece, Turkey or Holland.
Again, WHY DID GREECE HAVE 3 TEAMS in the CL? I understand one of the slots they took away was from Holland, who came up equally lame this year. I think they should let some of the "minnows" from E. Europe in. Perhaps they'll put up a better fight. The Russians and Ukranians put up a good fight in Group B this year.
On the whole I would agree that it is a failure that Italy only got 2 teams through. But saying that, the 2 teams they got through are the best teams left in the competition, imo. Nobody expected Inter or Lazio to win the CL. But Juve and Milan have a great shot at it. Big achievements for both Sparta and Loko this year. Both clubs have made the last 16 two years in a row. That is something huge clubs like Bayern and Inter can't claim to have done. And with home legs in Prague and Moscow on February 24/25 no club will be relishing those trips.
Who wants to bet they we get a ManU/Bayern or Real/Bayern matchup? For a couple of years we would get those matchups every year. But with Bayern crashing out early last year it ruined UEFA's plan. But now it can happen again.
Would <3 to see a Real - Bayern. The 2 German teams are the only 2 on Pot B that could go thru no matter who they match-up with. Pot A have been in my Europe's top 10, except for Lyon.
Because they earned it: http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/crank03.html And they will get three teams again next year.
It all has to do with the Coefficients -- which are derived from the individual clubs performance in Europe. Here is a good thread that not only tells how the coefficient is calculated, but has been tracking how it has changed over the last couple of months. The coefficient is calculated based upon the last 5 year's performances. Greece's coefficient put them 6th in Europe behind Spain, Italy, England, Germany & France and ahead of Netherlands, Turkey, Portugal and Russia. Greece passed Netherlands this past year to get the 3rd team in the CL. If you look at how things are going so far this year in the thread I linked above, you'll notice that for next year, it appears that Portugal will jump from 9th to 6th. Greece is holding onto 7th. Netherlands is currently 8th, but Czech Republic is 9th and with Sparta staying in CL and all but 1 team from Netherlands being knocked out of Europe, Netherlands is in serious danger of dropping to 9th.
I believe that makes it 6:00 am EST and I believe that's when they start the draw, so it should be complete by 6:30 or 7:00 EST. The UEFA Cup draw is at 1:00 pm CET, 7:00 am EST.
True, but probably not the year after, when these rankings kick in: http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/crank04.html If the above stay as-is, Portugal will get three teams in the CL. One could say that seems unfair, but it's a result of Portugal placing two teams in the last 16 of the CL two years ago, winning the UEFA cup last year (and having a semifinalist in it as well), and having another team make a good run so far this year (Porto in last 16 of CL). Similarly, it's not that absurd to think that Greece has that many teams in the CL. Just a couple years ago Panathinaikos pushed Barca to the brink in their CL quarterfinal, and Panathinaikos was a quarterfinalist in the UEFA Cup last year. The problem is, after the first four big countries in European soccer (England/Spain/Italy/Germany), there's no one country with the depth of quality to consistently deserve several spots in the CL. Some of the second-tier countries can have good years, but weak ones as well (e.g., Greece or Netherlands: Ajax in the CL quarters last year, Feyenoord winning UEFA the year before--but this only PSV is left in Europe).
And if Germany continues to slip like this year, that 4th place in the Uefa ranking might soon be up for grabs...
That may be, but there is no difference between the number of teams or where they play between 4th place and 5th place. Also, one point about the 6th thru 10th place rankings... 6th thru 8th places get 6 teams in European competitions (6th gets 3 in CL and 3 in UEFA Cup, 7th & 8th gets 2 in CL and 4 in UEFA Cup). 9th & 10th only get 4 teams in all Euro competitions -- 2 in CL and 2 in UEFA. If as a league, you only have 2 to 4 dominant teams, it is a benefit to be in 9th place because then if you're 2 good teams out of 4 in all competitions do well, it impacts your coefficient more than having only 2 teams do well out of 6 overall. For example, if Portugal's top 2 teams earned 12 points and the rest earned none, they would get 3 points added to their coefficient. However, if Greece's top 2 teams get 12 points and the rest earned none, they'd only get 2 points added to their coefficient. Therefore, until one of these leagues gets some strength in their 4th, 5th and 6th best teams, you'll continue to see this topsy turvey bouncing up and down in that 6th thru 10th or 12th area year by year.
I know that... As you pointed out, this is how the CL spots are awarded: 1. Four Teams, GP <CH & RU>, Q3 <N3 & N4> 2. Four Teams, GP <CH & RU>, Q3 <N3 & N4> 3. Four Teams, GP <CH & RU>, Q3 <N3 & N4> 4. Three Teams, GP <CH & RU>, Q3 <N3> 5. Three Teams, GP <CH & RU>, Q3 <N3> 6. Three Teams, GP <CH & RU>, Q3 <N3> 7. Two Teams, GP <CH>, Q3 <RU> 8. Two Teams, GP <CH>, Q3 <RU> 9. Two Teams, GP <CH>, Q3 <RU> 10. Two Teams, Q3 <CH>, Q2 <RU> 11. Two Teams, Q3 <CH>, Q2 <RU> 12. Two Teams, Q3 <CH>, Q2 <RU> 13. Two Teams, Q3 <CH>, Q2 <RU> 14. Two Teams, Q3 <CH>, Q2 <RU> 15. Two Teams, Q3 <CH>, Q2 <RU> 16. - 25. One Team, Q2 <CH> 26. - 52. One Team, Q1 <CH> GP = Group Phase Q# = Qualifying Round 1, 2, or 3 CH = Champion RU = Runner-up N3 = 3rd Placed Club N4 = 4th Placed Club All I'm saying is that "The Big Four" might not be the big four for much longer...
One thing to add to the above break down, There is also a spot for the defending champion in the group stage, but if the champion would have qualified for the group stage any way because of their league position (which is very likely) then the champion of the 10th ranked country goes straight to the group stage and everyone below gets bumped up (not in number of teams but in where they enter).
Yes, you're right on this. France (in 5th) is closer to Germany (in 4th) than Germany is to Italy (in 3rd) and since Italy still has 6 out of 8 teams still active and France still has 6 out of 7 but Germany only has 2 out of 7, Germany are likely to fall further behind Italy and France to draw closer.
And should France pass Germany one of these years, I'm sure Bigsoccer will overheat with discussions about what we're left with. The big three, the big four (with France taking Germany's place), or the big five . Or if we should just restrain of trying to give the top leagues a silly label.
This report ratifies my position. http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_y...slug=reu-championsreal&prov=reuters&type=lgns
I know I'm in the minority on this, but I don't think it's at all likely that Germany will be overtaken by anyone for the fourth spot. It's true that this year Germany is sucking in Europe and France is doing well--but that's only going to be good enough to shave off a few points from Germany's lead this year (and that's assuming that France outperforms Germany--not a given with Bayern and Stuttgart still in it). Remember, 7 points (the current margin between France and Germany) is a HUGE difference in UEFA standings--most other places are separated by less than 2 points. So in order to overtake Germany, some country will have to outperform them on a consistent basis, and I just don't see France (or anyone else) doing this. France is having a bit of a Renaissance year in Europe, but the Championnat has been in a steady decline for some time and fails to draw anything like the talent of the Bundesliga. Based on the UEFA rankings, there really isn't a top four (where all four teams are roughly equal), but a series of echelons: Clearly the best: Spain Jockeying for second: Italy/England Clear fourth: Germany Jockeying for fifth: France/Portugal Rounding out the top ten: Greece/Netherlands/Czech On the cusp of the top ten: Turkey/Scotland
I don't know, I think the French league is heavily underrated (especially here on bigsoccer where France bashing is the trend du jour.) The 98 World Cup sparked a renaissance for the French league and attendance, interest, and quality has risen dramatically since then. I for one would not be surprised to see France pass Germany.
From a Milan perspective I hope we get a Spanish club. Milan have dominated Spanish clubs the last 15 years or so. And I hope the English clubs play Spanish clubs since the Spaniards seem to have thier number. Which would leave Milan to pick off the remaining La Liga clubs en route to the title. I would rather not play Stuttgart or Bayern.
2nd round draw This is the 2nd round draw: VfB Stuttgart(Ger)-Chelsea FC(Eng) FC Porto(Por)-Manchester United FC(Eng) Real Sociedad(Spa)-Olympique Lyonnais(Fra) RC Celta de Vigo(Spa)-Arsenal FC(Eng) FC Bayern München(Ger)-Real Madrid CF(Spa) AC Sparta Praha(Cze)-AC Milan(Ita) RC Deportivo La Coruña(Spa)-Juventus FC(Ita) FC Lokomotiv Moskva(Rus)-AS Monaco FC(Fra) First legs on 24/25 February, second legs on 9/10 March.