CL 2nd Group Phase - Draw [R]

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by dwinkler, Nov 12, 2002.

  1. dwinkler

    dwinkler New Member

    Aug 11, 2000
    Denver, CO
    This isn't taking place until this Friday (11:30 a.m. CET in Nyon, Switzerland, or 5:30 a.m. ET), but I thought I'd start the thread and pass along what I know about it.

    There are 16 teams in four pots - the eight 1st Group phase champions, and the eight 1st Group phase runners up. The draw is divided into 4 pots of 4 teams, with the 8 champs going into Pots 1 and 2, and the 8 runners up going into Pots 3 and 4. The four 2nd Group Phase groups are made by drawing one team from each pot.

    Things to remember: You cannot be drawn against a team in your domestic league, and you cannot be drawn against a team you played in the first group stage.

    For all intents and purposes, the difference between coming in first in our group and finishing second is the level of opposition. Arsenal, as a group champ, will either be in Pot 1 or Pot 2. They will have to face another group champ (from either Pot 1 or Pot 2), but will then get to face two group runners up, who will be picked from Pots 3 and 4. If Arsenal had finished as runners up, they would have had to face two group champions and one group runner up.

    As far as I can tell, the other benefit of winning your group is that you start the next group phase at home, which begins Nov. 26th or Nov. 27th.

    UEFA should release seeding information this Thursday, so we'll know more then.
     
  2. dwinkler

    dwinkler New Member

    Aug 11, 2000
    Denver, CO
    Let the rampant speculation begin! Depending on what you read, Arsenal will/won't have to face either Real Madrid/Valencia/Barcelona in the next round. (For the record, the Sporting Life says it's a possibility, and Christopher Davies in the Telegraph says it definitely won't happen. But I think he's wrong.)

    Also, one report I've read said we're definitely facing Roma. Another said we're definitely either facing Roma/Deportivo La Coruna (who haven't even qualified yet).

    Then, depending on what happens today, the last opponent could come from a pool consisting of Ajax/Basle/Bayer/Brugge or Gala or Lokomotiv/Kiev or Feyenoord.

    Confusing? You bet. More rampant speculation as soon as it becomes available.
     
  3. dwinkler

    dwinkler New Member

    Aug 11, 2000
    Denver, CO
    What we do know

    Last night's Arsenal match program(me) explained that, using known coefficients, the main group (Pot 1, I assume) will have Real Madrid , Barcelona, Valencia and ManUre (if they win their group) or Juventus (if they dont). That means Arsenal will go in Pot 2 along with the other group winners not included in Pot 1.
     
  4. 442

    442 Member

    Dec 28, 2000
    Secret ArseAm HQ
    It's pretty impossible to figure out at this point. But here's my "Fun" group:

    Arsenal
    Barca (love Kluivert)
    Ajax (my 2nd favorite)
    Galatasaray (revenge for the UEFA Cup final)

    For an easy draw:
    Arsenal
    Inter (weak group winner)
    Basel (nice story, but...)
    Brugge (weank 2nd in a weak group)

    Hard draw:
    Arsenal
    Valencia (16 out of 18 points)
    Roma (tough Italians)
    Lokomotive Moscow (brutal travel)

    Wow, coming in first really helps us. If we came in 2nd we could be looking at playing Valencia and AC Milan along with a tough trip to Dinamo Kiev or Loko Moscow.
     
  5. dwinkler

    dwinkler New Member

    Aug 11, 2000
    Denver, CO
  6. LeperKhan

    LeperKhan New Member

    Aug 10, 2000
    St. Paul, MN
    Well, Loko are in at the expense of Galatasaray.

    The final 2 spots, between Kiev/Newcastle and Lens/Depor look like they're truly going down to the last minute.
     
  7. dwinkler

    dwinkler New Member

    Aug 11, 2000
    Denver, CO
    Unofficial "Pots" for the draw

    Based on the coefficient information presented on the Arsenal site, here's my guess how the pots will look. They officially come out tomorrow sometime:

    Pot 1
    Real Madrid CF (ESP) 147.233
    Manchester United FC (ENG) 125.729
    FC Barcelona (ESP) 116.233
    Valencia CF (ESP) 106.233

    Pot 2
    Juventus FC (ITA) 91.334
    Arsenal FC (ENG) 90.729
    Internazionale FC (ITA) 88.334
    Milan AC (ITA) 69.334

    Pot 3
    RC Deportivo La Coruña (ESP) 82.233
    Bayer 04 Leverkusen (GER) 81.495
    AS Roma (ITA) 77.334
    BV Borussia Dortmund (GER) 73.495

    Pot 4
    FC Lokomotiv Moskva (RUS) 57.645
    AFC Ajax (HOL) 48.082
    Newcastle United FC (ENG) 43.729
    FC Basel (SUI) 14.312

    So, based on this, Arsenal will draw a very tough Spanish team (one of the three in Pot 1), either Leverkusen or Roma from Pot 3, and either Lokomotiv, Ajax, or Basel from Pot 4. Again, this is all unofficial until tomorrow.
     
  8. dwinkler

    dwinkler New Member

    Aug 11, 2000
    Denver, CO
    Official pots for the draw

    Guess we don't have to wait until tomorrow after all, although this story does say that "the draw procedure is to be ratified at a meeting of UEFA's Club Competitions Committee in Geneva on Thursday."
    http://www.uefa.com/uefa/News/Kind=16384/newsId=42253.html
     
  9. cosmosRIP

    cosmosRIP Member

    Jul 22, 2000
    Brooklyn NY
    By my calculations the group will be
    Arsenal
    Roma
    Barcelona or Valencia
    Lokomotiv Moscow, Ajax or Basel
     
  10. dwinkler

    dwinkler New Member

    Aug 11, 2000
    Denver, CO
    I think you're exactly right, here's why as far as I understand it.

    Remember, teams from the same domestic league and who faced one another in the previous group can't meet in this phase.

    So...Roma (Pot 3) has to face a team in Pot 2. The only non-Italians in Pot 2 are Arsenal.

    Then, since we're facing Roma, that means we avoid Real Madrid, since Roma and Real were in the same group in the first phase.

    I doubt if anyone's going to have it easy. Looks like ManUre are going to have to face:

    Deportivo
    Juventus/Inter/AC Milan
    Lokomotiv/Ajax/Basel
     
  11. kygunner

    kygunner New Member

    Aug 12, 2001
    Winchester KY USA
    Ive noticed that a number of people hold Arsenal and Ajax as favorites, possibly because of DB10. So who are you going to support? A draw maybe? This will be the first meetings of the teams, if it happens, that I can remember.
     
  12. kygunner

    kygunner New Member

    Aug 12, 2001
    Winchester KY USA
    Teamtalk.com agrees with you as the only possibilities.
     
  13. Senor Askew

    Senor Askew Member

    Jan 19, 2001
    San Francisco, CA.
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hmm, playing Roma might be fun.

    If memory serves (no guarantees) last time we played at Stadio Olimpico we manhandled Lazio 2-0 with Robert Pires scoring a majestic goal from way the hell out.

    Champions league first group phase two years ago.
     
  14. 442

    442 Member

    Dec 28, 2000
    Secret ArseAm HQ
    Clearly I'd vote for both teams to advance. I love the Dutch, Cruyff and that 95 Ajax team (Kluivert, Davids, Seedorf, Kanu, Overmars, Rijkaard, teh De Boers, Van der Sar, oh my God what a team). But Arsenal is my #1.

    Arsenal played in the Ajax preseasn tournament in 2000, don't remember the outcome.

    Speaking of Ajax, did anybody see the move their young Superstud Rafael Van der Vaart made in the game the other day? Two guys in front of him, inside the box. He draws the ball back with his left foot, then with the same foot slides the ball behind himself to the right, steps over and shoots on goal. I have fantasies about him coming to Arsenal. I rate him as high as any midfielder we have, and he's maybe 20 years old.
     
  15. dwinkler

    dwinkler New Member

    Aug 11, 2000
    Denver, CO
    The game at Lazio was a 1-1 tie, with Pires scoring that great goal in the 88th minute. It started from the edge of our box on the left side when Wiltord hit a long ball that the Lazio defender (Nesta?) misjudged. It went over his head and Pires ran onto it and chipped the keeper from way out. Great goal.

    The 2-0 game happened at Highbury, Freddie with both goals.
     
  16. dwinkler

    dwinkler New Member

    Aug 11, 2000
    Denver, CO
    Besides the pre-season match that Rick mentioned, the teams have met four times in the early '70s. Arsenal won the first meeting 3-0, then proceeded to lose the next three.

    You can actually go to the official website, click Statistics then Advanced Search, and type a team in the Opposition field.
     
  17. dwinkler

    dwinkler New Member

    Aug 11, 2000
    Denver, CO
    Only four possible groups

    Looks like there are only four possible groups for Arsenal:

    -Barcelona, AFC, Roma, Ajax
    -Barcelona, AFC, Roma, Basel
    -Valencia, AFC, Roma, Ajax
    -Valencia, AFC, Roma, Lokomotiv Moscow

    Ajax is the only team in Pot 4 that's not "poison," if you will, for one of the other teams in the first three pots. Barca and Lokomotiv were both in Group H, and Valencia and Basel were both in Group B.

    That means we have a better chance of getting Ajax than Lokomotiv or Basel.

    So, the first or third group above looks the likeliest.
     
  18. Jeff L

    Jeff L Member

    May 12, 2002
    London
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The draw should work out like this.
    Definately ROMA. We can't play against any of the other Italian teams.
    Either BARCELONA or VALENCIA as we can't get Man. U.
    If we get Barcelona we can't get Moscow, and likewise with Valencia we can't get Basle, and obviously not Newcastle.
    So the group should look like this.
    ARSENAL
    ROMA
    BARCELONA / VALENCIA
    MOSCOW / BASLE
     
  19. paulocesar

    paulocesar Member

    Oct 4, 2000
    Please...please....no Valencia!!!!....

    Arse have a better chance against Barca...you heard it here first.

    Match up well against Ajax and Roma IMHO.
     
  20. BazoDee!

    BazoDee! New Member

    Mar 11, 2002
    B'klyn
    Drumroll please......................

    Group A
    Inter Milan
    Bayer Leverkusen
    Barcelona
    Newcastle United

    Group B
    Ajax
    Roma
    Arsenal
    Valencia

    Group C
    Borussia Dortmund
    AC Milan
    Real Madrid
    Lokomotiv Moskva

    Group D
    Juventus
    Basel, Basle, Whatever...
    ManUre
    Deportivo La Coruña
     
  21. ArsenalTexan3

    ArsenalTexan3 Member

    Arsenal
    Sep 24, 2002
    Jakarta
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Not too bad. Going to be tough, but Arsenal can get through. Sucks to be Man U though.
     
  22. BazoDee!

    BazoDee! New Member

    Mar 11, 2002
    B'klyn
    1st Rd. Stats

    Goal Differential:
    Arsenal: 5
    Valencia: 13
    Roma: -1
    Ajax: 1

    Don't be misled by Valencia's strike rate. Look at who they played: Spartak Moscow, Quiverpool, Basle.
     
  23. 442

    442 Member

    Dec 28, 2000
    Secret ArseAm HQ
    I'm excited about this because A) I think we can progress, and B) my two favorite teams will play.

    I've already started speaking with the guys from Ajax USA and hopefully we can do some fun things on each others websites and maybe organize some viewing parties.
     
  24. revelation

    revelation Member+

    Dec 17, 1998
    FC St. Pauli
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Not a bad group and the non-flying Dutchman can at least make it to one of the games. Of course, in the 2nd round of the Champs League none of the groups are "easy". Arsenal should go through this group, hopefully as group winners. Valencia will be the toughest opposition as they are flying high and in good form.

    The keys to the campaign will be Vieira and Henry. Vieira needs to control the midfield and cut out the service to opposition forwards. Henry needs to actually finish his chances! Here is his chance to prove he is the best striker in Europe (if not the world).

    BTW - Ajax is going down!
     
  25. mogador

    mogador New Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    New York
    Time for Arsenal to step take their seat at the table.

    I just saw the result and they're already calling our group the 'Group of Death', which I think is an overstatement, they all look tough, that's why its called the 'Champions League' no?

    I think the real headache is going to be Valencia who alway seem to run rings round Arsenal, or any other English opposition.
     

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