I don't know that either of these are true. I think most of the ISO ball comes from Christian himself. And just in this South Korea game, SK was throwing two men at Dest -- Christian is not the only player keyed on. The reality is that Christian thinks he's a one on one guy off a stopped ball, but he hasn't been that for club or country for years. Most wingers lose that early on. He's very, very good in the open field and he can skin most people if he's already moving. He's actually very good off ball, which is one of the reasons we struggle when he's constantly on ball. He's much more explosive these days moving to a pass -- there was a moment against Japan where Balo fed him from the wing and he split two guys with amazing speed. But he doesn't quite have that step from a standstill with the ball like a lot of one on one dribblers do. Most of them are very young, though, and everyone loses that step; it's just if you have enough to lose. His passing vision is mediocre and he tends to want to dribble people much more for the US than at club; whether that's a coaching direction or just Christian thinking he needs to / CONCACAF comp can't handle him is not something I know. But I do know that makes him textbook to throw guys at, because he's just not good at even making that first pass to punish it. I think the two unlocks for him for the US are Balogun, who can create space for him, especially on the break, and if we can get an on ball guy who he works well with. Reyna should have been ideal, but I really can't remember a single good link up between the two; perhaps there was always some rivalry. Perhaps Tillman will be a better fit there to allow Christian's off ball work to shine.
He was also a handful and threat to do damage with the ball anywhere on the field. He could pick the ball up in his own back third, initiate transition offense, facilitate with a fantastic hockey assist/killer ball, and then finish the play demonstratively with skill. He was a truly multidimensional offensive juggernaut.
No other player has the combination of elite skill and athleticism that Donovan had. He was explosive and blazing fast. He’s what you’d get if you mixed some of the traits of Pulisic and Reyna. If you more or less combined them into a single player.
I think that some people are too young to know about Donovan and assume things about him because he played in MLS. Not necessarily those I have responded to here, but there is a lot of that out there. This generation is detached from soccer history here. There was a lot of difference in the ways that he and Pulisic played.
Vast differences. For those of us who’ve been watching the team religiously for 25 years+, and who witnessed Donovan’s impact on the program, it’s rather natural to compare our major stars from different periods.
Not here. Most here were around for Landon. As for places like Reddit, probably a factor. A 20 yr old would have been around 9 when he last played for the NT.
Right. In some other thread I posted to a few years ago, the sense was that only old timers were on Big Soccer. The younglings don’t “do” message boards anymore/these days.
Pulisic is much more technically gifted than Donovan. He’s also become arguably a more dynamic finisher. Donovan’s first touch was no great shakes. Reyna also has better vision and skill to make elite passes in my opinion. Donovan just was competitive as hell, fast, durable, and had a knack for scoring. If he’d played much of his prime like he did against Spain when we beat them - I’d agree more.
Pretty much agree, but feel that Donovan's vision was far better than Pulisic's. Hard to say about Reyna. Perhaps an 18 yr old Reyna did have better vision than Donovan but it's hard to compare Reyna to Donovan when Reyna hasn't played for four years... One thing that neither Reyna or Pulisic bring to the table that Donovan was defense. Donovan played end to end and his help on the defensive end is greatly underappreciated imo.
Isn’t Donovan’s assist rate for the national team almost identical to Pulisics? Not sure I’d say far better. I also thought Donovan would go awol in games at times.
I had to look it up but Donovan had 58 assists in 157 caps. 37% Pulisic has 18 assists in 78 caps. 23% To my eye, Donovan's vision was one of his major strengths. Imo, if Pulisic had Donovan's vision, he would be inarguably "world class" (whatever world class is :/ ). I don't remember Donovan dribbling into a crowd of defenders and losing the ball like Pulisic does at times. (I haven't fully decided whether I think it is a lack of vision or a case of Pulisic trying to do too much at times.) I would agree that Donovan sometimes disappeared. That being said, he generally showed up in big games.
He was better against Germany in 2002 than he was against Spain. He had several world class international games. Pulisic has had a couple of great games against Mexico, but not even those top Donovan’s role in the original dos a cero and its subsequent institution.
im simply using this as the baseline to say that i think donovan was the highest evolution of the "american soccer" archetype; elite physical attributes/basic technical skill. i dont know that there is a player is world history who had a better, or higher combination of pace, endurance and/or a better engine. he was beyond elite- he was elite among the world class. he had (in the bucket of only american players) very good- not great- finishing and touch. that, along with mentality, is why he never did succeed abroad imo. his international play (and shot everton stints in advanced age) show that he was clearly capable, but those technical limitations would have his life a miserable grind with a pretty finite ceiling. i would argue we never would have seen his nt career if he had chosen that path. in a fully different category, i think of dempsey as the root (not first) of our non-imported technical/skill players. after those "dual nats" in ramos, dooley, etc. deuce was the most notably (what is their tier just beneath world class?) fully american produced player. you can pick all of it apart but that, for me, is an entirely different branch of the tree. not simply the best applications of the american archetype, but technical ability on top of (or in very rare occasions parallel to) that archetype. thats the discussion pulisic belongs in. with job, dempsey, gio, etc.
Donovan wasn’t a part of the original dos a cero. And if McBride and Reyna hadn’t been hurt - it might not have been the original. He was electric and young vs Germany - but the Spain game was the height of his powers in his prime.
I didn't watch Donovan much but he's was one of those players who seemed to make the game slow down when he had the ball. It's a sign of real class.
Hopes for our USMNT are ebbing, so we've taken to nostalgic reminiscing about Donovan like he's some kind of sunshine Superman. Must be the season of the witch.
It’s because our NT level is pretty much the same and during the Donovan era many thought about how good things could be if we had more players at big clubs and leagues in Europe.
The combo of prime Donovan and prime Pulisic would have been exciting to see. Their combination of speed and explosiveness would imbalance a lot of defenses, especially if they’d had in their prime distributor behind them. Maybe height of their powers O’Brien, Bradley of Reyna?
Yes, but the reality is that all three (Dempsey, Pulisic and Donovan) were incomplete. That (imo) prevented any of the three from to becoming "world class". (I don't know why I use that when I don't even know what it means myself). It is also true That, in the case of Dempsey and Donovan, the bias against American players in Europe, multiplied the difficulties in achieving a successful career overseas. All three were/are extremely competitive. Dempsey was the one of the three that was the most physical. As has been said, Donovan lacked elite technical ability and confidence. (I think it was confidence as much as or more than "mentality"...or perhaps confidence is just more specific). How much of his "mentality" was shaped by his "failures" when he first went to Germany? Was that due to a lack of "mentality"? How many of our modern players that have "fought it out" could have survived alone, at 16, in a country where they did not speak the language under the pressures that European soccer is so famous for? Does that represent weakness...or normalcy? Dempsey was much more technically gifted than Donovan (imo), was immensely confident and, among other things, had an amazing ability to be in the right spot at the right time and scored goals with every part of his body...something that, if it happens often enough, is not luck. Pulisic has as much technical ability as Dempsey, but not Dempsey's ability to beat players from a standstill, Donovan's pace (to my eye), lacks his work rate and ability to help in defense making lung busting runs from 18 to 18 and doesn't have the vision that Donovan had (imo). Making it in Europe when Dempsey and Donovan were there (and especially when Donovan first went over) was nothing like it is now. Donovan went over to Germany at 16, by himself with no support system, no twitter, facetime etc to keep in touch with friends and family and ultimately couldn't take it. Could he have been successful if he had been able to go when he was older and more mature like Dempsey at 24? We will never know. We do know that Dempsey didn't have it easy either. He went to Fulham and every season he had to earn his spot. By the end of the season he would be first choice leading scorer but with a new coach the next year, the American would be on the bench and he would have to re-earn his place (possibly a bit of hyperbole but not by much). sorry for the long and rambling post. I always seem to go longer than originally planned.
That would be a great combo. I wonder which would be best...a Donovan Pulisic combo, Dempsey Pulisic combo, or a Donovan Dempsey combo? We will never know but it's fun to think about....
What is the evidence of this? People seem to say and think this very freely based on almost nothing. What am I missing, to think this talking point is bullshit.
The bias against American players is totally imagined. People need to stop taking newspaper comments and social media posts so seriously.