I just read a NY Times piece on Wingert. I think he's a very good (not great) college soccer player. The article states that he will be one of the prizes of the MLS Draft. Does anyone agree? For the record- I think he just doensn't have the pace to play in the pros. I've yet to see him play on the U-23 team, but I wonder how he can possibly keep up playing LB? Anyone care to comment?
I think to the untrained eye, it's tough to see what Wingert offers. But, everyone, and I mean everyone, that is in soccer for a living whom I have talked to or read about talking about Wingert speaks very highly of him. He's not ever going to be a go-to guy but he's one of those smart players that doesn't make mistakes and makes the players around him better. And, there will always be a demand for that in MLS. Factor in his ability to play either wing back spot, d-mid and, in a pinch, flank mid or center back and you have a player coaches will love. He's also a winner and he has all that international experience. He'll go high in the draft. I see Wingert being like Rusty Pierce (more skilled, less rough) or Brandon Prideaux - that level of player in MLS. Basically, good, and sometimes very good but not likely a star. He could bloom a little late like Brian Mullan, too. His roster status may see him go behind a lot of P40s in the draft, but I bet he's one of the top 5 seniors taken. (Ngwenya, Gregorio and Leonard should also go high.) BTW, Seth Stammler of Maryland is a nearly identical player to Wingert though without quite so much international experience. I expect similar things from him in MLS. Of course, you can judge for yourself on Friday as Maryland will play St. John's in the Final Four and it will be on ESPN, though both players play center back for their college teams, a position their height - or lack thereof - will keep them from playing regularly in MLS.
i was impressed watching him in person...would be a great pick-up for the columbus crew, of course i think taking him #1 <since we all know who is really #1> in the draft would kind of be a bit much but still. i was also impressed with #4 on maryland in this game, he seemed to move the ball up the left side pretty well from his left-back position and was very solid in his defending.
I thought he sucked. Honestly. It's hard to rate central defenders because so much of their game is dependent on team cohesion, but individually I didn't see much. It seemed like he was powerless to prevent Abe Thompson from getting off dangerous shots. I expected to see a Jeff Agoos type player, but what I saw was more like Agoos WC2002. I'm hoping his value will be more apparent on sunday. Obviously with all the positive pub he gets there must be something to his game.
I wasn't overly impressed with Wingert against Maryland, and I also thought he had trouble physically matching up against Abe Thompson. Not overly quick, not physically imposing, he just seems to know how to play, but his lack of athleticism will limit his upside. I haven't seen Ngwenya play, and there's really nobody else that I've seen play collegiately this year that I can say is a real stud. More & more, with the U-17 residency & P-40 options, you won't see many top-level players staying around till their senior years. The players with real upside, like Danny Szetela, will be long gone. Nevertheless, there will occasionally be a Damani Ralph to whet everyone's appetites. It takes at least 3-4 years to see how each draft actually contributes to MLS rosters, but I don't see this draft being particularly strong.
I wouldn't say Wingert sucked but I thought it was his worse performance since the 4-2 loss to Seton Hall where Wingert was a non-factor. Wingert needs to step it up if St. John's wants the Cup. Wingert has the physical qualities to make the MLS. But I wouldn't say that he is the best defender I've seen this year. He should win the Herman but winning the award doesn't predict rookie success in the MLS.
I thought he did a good job on Abe Thompson. As good a job on Thompson as O'Rourke (Indiana) did on Igwe (Santa Clara). I can see Wingert with the Metrostars (I am not sure how high the Metrostars first round draft pick is). Bob Bradley loves that type of player.
My view hasn't changed I opened this thread by saying that I thought Wingert was a very good college player, but one that wouldn't be an impact player in the pros. I based this on watching him on and off over the last 2 years at St. John's (I live in manhattan) and after watching the two games of the college cup this weekend- not much has happened to change my mind. In fact, I thought he gave Jacob Peterson a bit too much time and space on that 2nd IU goal- he was obviously in a compromising position when someone is running at you at pace. But he should have forced Jacob to do something earlier, instead of letting him have his way. I thought it was interesting how John Harkes was commenting (while St. John's was down 2-0) that Wingert needs to step up as the leader of the team and do something to make a difference. He clearly hadn't done his homework on Chris, because he should have known that Wingert cannot take players on and attack. But I guess that's precisely the kind of thing you would expect from someone who gets the press he does, and is a finalist for trophy going to the best player in college soccer.
Re: My view hasn't changed Well its somewhat intersting that if St Johns is tied or losing late in a match, Wingert will slowly get more and more into the attack. He didn't do it this afternoon. I think thats what Harkes was more or less referring to. Granted he probably watched him play very few times, but the better center backs tend to do just that when their team goes down. Surprising that Wingert stayed so far back and was content with spraying 50/50 balls up and passing to his outside backs across the backline. Something tells me he was worried about another IU counterattack. On the Peterson goal, I find it hard to blame Wingert because you have a former U17 player with the ball and a U20 player waiting for the pass...who do you chose? I think he was trying to slow Peterson down so the onrushing defenders could aid in defense, but they all kinda just gave up.
Re: Re: My view hasn't changed The point that Harkes was trying to make was that Wingert should have gone to Peterson as the primary threat, and if Peterson recognized the pressure and dumped to Grabavoy, then the hope was that Grabavoy would either be off-side, or that the keeper would have a better defensive angle to make a stop. A tough situation for any defender to be in, and easy for us with replay and slo-mo to analyze. The real killer was the first goal where the keeper guesed to his right (the side of the wall), and the ball came around the wall and to his left.
Re: Re: Re: My view hasn't changed Well, Johnny was wrong on that, because I thought Wingert played it correctly. You always position yourself so that the man off the ball does not have a clear path to receive. The man without the ball IS the danger man, even if he has the worse angle. The man with the ball is the keeper's responsbility. Wingert closed down when it was clear Petersen was going to shoot, and was a split second too late. Gaudette came out appropriately on the shot, but was a hair off. They both played it correctly but their timing was just off. Petersen struck a great ball, and deserved the goal as he made it himself. Actually it was the failure to control the ball in midfield, a failure that sprung Petersen loose, that was the real culprit in that sequence. I don't know if Petersen was named MOTM, but he should have been.
Re: Re: Re: Re: My view hasn't changed Karl, I disagree 100% when you say the man with the ball is the GK's responsibility and that the dribbler is not the "danger man", as you put it. How can anyone have a chance to finish w/o the ball? True, runners off of the ball are dangerous, but you've GOT to slow the ball down and give your other defenders a chance to recover. I believe Harkes was simply stating that Wingert waited far too long to close down Peterson. As the 1st (and last) defender, he should've closed the space in front of Peterson much sooner, knowing that time and space are a dribbler's most valued possessions (not including the ball, obviously). And the 1st defender (ONLY defender on a breakaway) would not "always" position himself to cut down a passing lane. If he's a 2nd, 3rd, etc. covering or balancing defender, then yes. But covering a player running off the ball so Gaudette can go 1 v 1 with Peterson? No way! I don't know of a coach that would teach that, and if Wingert is even close to Hermann material he should know that. At any rate, that's only my opinion so it doesn't matter and if off topic for this thread. I do feel Wingert can play in MLS. I don't think he'll be an impact player. I think that his lackluster performance this past weekend could cause him to go a bit lower in the draft than some expect. He's very good at making the sure and safe passes in the back, seems to be decent in 1 v 1 situations, but didn't seem to show much leadership. And lastly, I think a mistake will be made if he wins the Hermann.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: My view hasn't changed Yet if he closes TOO soon, the ball is dumped to Grabavoy for a direct run at goal, and the soooner he had done it, the BETTER the angle Grabavoy would have had. Had he closed down right away, it might have been Ned off the races alone. Also, Wingert naturally respected Peterson's speed. He was late on the challenge. But not THAT late. A split second sooner and he would have been on him. Again, props to Peterson for finishing nicely. I do agree with you...I think Wingert will play in MLS. Like
ST. John's goalie Why was St.John's goalie in a low crouch that limited his ability to see over the wall which resulted in the first goal?