This is my first post, so please be gentle. My just turned 10 year old son will be moving to U11s in the fall and will need to try out at the end of the spring season. He has several options, we have to pick one because this is not a free market and try-outs all happen on the same days. Also unfortunately we live in a state that has U11s play on big fields 11 v 11 and after reading here for a couple of weeks, I have come to learn that this isn’t the best way to go for developing young players, but we have to live with it. [brag]As a way of background, my son’s main club (he also plays for a second club on a travel team) uses the developmental academy approach for U9s and U10s and has a pre-competitive (ie in-house) league. He is the best U10 player the club has, and frankly looks like a man among boys on the pitch. He is the most technically skilled, one of the most athletic and has an understanding of the game beyond his years. He also has some of those intangible qualities: self-motivated, desire to always improve, he loves to win, but he also loves it when he plays his top game regardless of the result. He is, at this point, a certain for their top competitive team. He no longer trains with the academy (actually his whole team doesn’t, except for the odd sessions) because he gets so little out of it, he is as technically skilled as some of the high school boys that they use to train the kids . To be fair they do have more experienced coaches too, but they teach to the lowest common denominator and isn't very disciplined, so boring for a kid who wants more advanced training. Last fall he trained once a week with the current top U11 team instead. He also trained with his travel team, with a training session here and there with his academy team. Additional skills training is through an ex Hammer who has embraced the Brazilian method and trains him with his 12 to 14 plus year olds, because my son matches them in technical ability. During the winter he plays both indoor (U10) and futsal (U11/U12) and has one pickup futsal session a week with mostly U14s. He does 1 1/2 hours of Coerver training a week, he is the best U10 boy there, he came first out of all the U10 boys at their skills competition. In addition, he has just been accepted to the Youth Training School of one of our state’s elite/academy clubs where they will be training their elite U10s in preparation for competitive soccer at U11.[/brag] So for U11 we have the option of sticking with his current club, they have a decent U11 team this year, and will have four or five players besides my son coming up in the fall that are both skillful and athletic, then there is a bit a drop off. The coach seems reasonable, although there is some discontent amongst some parents of boys he currently coaches, “plays the long ball game”, “can’t pick a team” etc. Others seem satisfied; the team won most of their games this past season. The club will funnel their best older players to the local MLS academy, although they still have their own teams for and they do reasonably well in the state. We also have the option of going with his travel team club, a major name club, but small in our area. The coach will be his current U10 coach, who doesn’t know much about soccer, so will have to get in a trainer, but he is a good manager and game day coach. My son would have the opportunity to move to their main club, an hour plus drive at some point. However, the club has a reputation of valuing winning above player development and they don’t offer an academy program for older boys. Our third option is trying out with the elite/academy club that has accepted him in to their YTS program. The club seems very serious about player development and will have their best competitive coaches training the boys. The program will start next week and until we see what it is like and the standard of the other boys, we really don’t know much else, we have been impressed with them so far when he went through the selection process. The club is at least an hour’s drive, so my husband will have to do this three times a week in traffic which is not something he relishes. Our final option is to try out for the local MLS U11 competitive team. This is a relatively new program and the club is still finding its feet, so has yet to attract the best players, it is also expensive which probably puts some people off as the state’s elite clubs are quite a bit cheaper, but the training facilities are some of the best in the country and it is less of drive at 40 minutes or so away. We know four boys who play on their U11 team and we have been very impressed at their improvement as players, so we are assuming they are getting good training. The MLS team didn’t do as well as his existing club’s U11 team in the fall season, however. We plan on watching at least one training session sometime this spring, to give us a better idea of the coaching their are receiving. So that is what we have to decide from. If you have read this thus far, I thank you very much. I really would appreciate any thoughts you might have and if any one of these options stands out. I have a feeling at U11 it probably doesn’t matter too much and we are likely over complicating things, as who really knows what kind of player he will be four years from now, let along eight years and beyond. At this point he shows great potential, coachability, a passion for the game and a drive to succeed, but he is ten years old. All we want to give him his best shot at succeeding, if that is what he wants, by providing the best training and enviorment we can, given what we have to work with.
NOTE: My thoughts are not aimed at you, your parenting or your situation. It's more of a general observation of a trend that keeps popping up... One option you missed is, stepping away from the insanity, letting him decompress and ask him if he'd like to play some recreational soccer and have some fun. Will all this be worth it when he's burnt out at 13 and wants to quit? I'm not trying to be "that guy" here and you can take my suggestion with a grain of salt. I'm just saying, we lose so many exceptional players by the age of 13 because so many of these ludicrous pressures of club and "options to excel" are driving families mad. Families become so entangled in this mess they begin to mistake their child's motivation and ability with having fun and enjoying the game. The next thing you know, they want out by 13. I might suggest a season off and some recreational play. Take that time to sit back and enjoy watching your kid have fun without the pressure of winning or intense coaching. You'll also get a chance to step away from the bureaucracy and politics of clubs and pressure yourself. I think you need a breather to get things into perspective. This was an informative post and we should all learn from it. I hope I don't make you angry but I need to be honest. This post is indicative of the problem with youth soccer in the US. We are a results driven, must win country and it always conflicts with the beautiful game. Our children need to love the game first. It's so easy to think little Johnny is having a blast when in fact he's slowly burning out and feels obligated to tell you how much he "loves playing". In fact, he's never truly played a pressure-free game in his life and wouldn't know the difference. Give the game back to the kids. After he's developed a (real) love for the game and is (truly) ready, get back into the club system. I'd consider a nice long break for now to get some perspective and to let your kid exhale and have some (real) fun for once. Just a thought, hope I didn't piss you off too much. I'm truly not trying to be preachy, just bringing another idea to the table. All my best and good luck
The first thing I would say is that if your son is as good as you describe him then he wont have a problem playing and developing in a 11v11 format. There is nothing wrong with really good players playing in that format a little earlier and younger. So don't worry too much about that. Second, try to ask and answer "what is fun for your son". You, as the parent, know best what type of character he is, what type of personality he has at this age. Is it fun for him to just play with his friends on the same team regardless of their ability level? Or is it fun for him to be challenged at the highest level? Is it fun for him to be part of the most competitive team? Is it fun for him to have the best coaches training him? There is no perfect option as with all of them you have to give up something to gain something else. If your son enjoys working hard and improving then the best place to take him would be where he can get the best training from the better coaches under the best environment. Even if the team isn't the best at the moment (why is that even important at U11?!) don't worry, they will develop as long as the coaching is of a good quality. That is the more important thing at the younger ages. Good luck to you and your boy! p.s. And no matter where your son ends up playing, make sure that he spends extra time on his own to improve his skills.
Actually, don't listen y.o.n.k.o. at all. The amount of touches he will receive under pressure and the amount of decisions he will have to make in an 11v11 will be very little. A lack of touches, pressurized space, and infrequent decision-making will hinder his development more than any other deciding factor you could imagine. So, yea, worry about that.
Thank you for your insight. My son is an extremely talented young player, we didn't realize how good until we had a chance to compare him to other boys outside of his small playing circle, we assumed he was a big fish in a small pond, but it appears he is a big fish in a big(ish) pond! Soccer is his life, it is how he defines himself. All that matters to him is that he plays soccer. It doesn't matter what form it takes, be it a crappy U10 blowout, a pick-up futsal game with the "big boys", a kick about at school or the park or the finals of a tournament, its all the same to him, pure unadulterated fun, although, he will be the first to admit playing on a "good" team and winning feels especially good! He is the kind of kid that will play soccer anywhere and with anyone. He doesn't need to be on a team with his friends, although he enjoys playing with certain boys because they are good players and team mates. He relishes challenge, and wants to play at the highest level he can. He is confident in his ability and shows it on the pitch, even if it doesn't always come off! We would like him to play for the club that offers the best coaching, wins are not important. Depending on how things go, and of course his opinion, we will make a decision towards the end of the spring. We are leaning towards the elite club or MLS team, although playing for his current club and his friends is still an attractive and convenient option. He does spend a lot of time with a ball at his feet, juggling, kicking it against a wall, shooting and practicing moves. He also watches a lot of professional soccer on tv and looks forward to his copy of "Kick" magazine that his grandma sends him from England every month. He collects EPL players cards like other kids collect Pokemon! As for the 11 v 11, I really hope that practice sessions will include plenty of small sided games, it is something we will be looking out for. He does do quite a bit of this type of training with both Coerver and his footskills coach, the latter with bigger, stronger, faster kids, so he really has to use his skills to get the better of them. To strike, I can understand how, for many kids, what you say makes total sense. It just doesn't for mine. I dislike that he has to do the try-out thing at such a young age, but that is the way it is and the way he wants it to be. If I told him we were going to scrap the whole thing and he could go play on a Y team for the next three or so years, he would think I had lost it! He was dominating play in the YMCA 4th grade league as a 7 year old 2nd grader! That would be a more likely way to kill off his love of the game at 13 than playing top level competitive soccer.
Wow! Talent and desire is a great combination. Support him and encourage him, but also protect him from burn outs. If he's the best player on whatever team he plays, then make sure he learn and understands eventually how to be a leader with his greater talent and ability. The two things that sound the best to me are how much he loves to play the game and to watch it on TV. Have him watch great players from past and present and encourage him to try to do what they do/did with the ball. There are plenty of clips on YouTube - all you have to do is type the names of the players. Let me know if there is anything else I can help you with. Best of wishes.
back at you. Actually, the difference isn't that big...but then I don't expect you to know that. In fact the difference is minimal when we talk about a player who is as good as described. He sounds like a kid ready for the 11v11 although normally that wouldn't/shouldn't be before U12. However, there is nothing wrong with making an exception. If a player trains frequently enough with his team (given the trainings include plenty of small-sided games) and does extra work on his own (which is the case with most advanced players) then there is no problem to introduce him to the 11v11. Playing 7v7/8v8/9v9 format is not necessarily the best or the only way to develop every single player in the US. Just because it's recommended by USSF it doesn't make it right. And they only recommend it under assumption that most kids in US practice once or twice a week only and just play a weekend game. But enough of that lesson before I get into trouble again.
If don't think there's too much pressure to get into the 'right' club. As long as your son is happy with the coach he plays for and feels he is improving, he'll be ok. Continue to nurture his love for the game...if he wants to do soccer 24/7, don't discourage him due to fear of burnout. I was obsessed with soccer (still am) as a player and would train by myself every day, train with a personal coach once per week several months out of the year, and moved club teams several times to get into what I felt was the best situation for me. My parents didn't pressure me at all, I knew what teams were successful, which coaches were historically successful (based on state cup wins and the like), etc. From there I made all the decisions myself. Looking back on it all, I became a stronger leader and developed the ability to perform 'in the clutch' from playing on the worst team around and eventually becoming the best player...I knew that if I didn't have a big game and score goals we wouldn't win. I developed creativity and some technical ability by playing for a good coach and a relatively uncommitted team. When I left for a more successful team, I regressed playing for a poor coach who had decent talent. I then went to a very good team where I developed playing against top players every training session and having a very demanding coach. So having to be 'the man' was beneficial, playing against other very good players was beneficial, but just going to a successful team was a waste of time for me. It seems the best situation is like minded individuals (might not come together until older age groups) with a coach who knows what to expect from the players and drive them to improve. If you can't get everything, go for the coach your son feels like he learns the most from or likes the most. Continue to stimulate his interest in the game and help to make sure he doesn't get burnt out, which can happen from playing on a team that's not committed as much as it can happen from playing on a team that travels all over the place. Your son will ultimately determine how far he wants to go in the game and will go to the team that fits his ability/interest.
y.o.n.k.o thank you! We are very proud of him. One of the really neat things is how he is already taking a leadership role on the pitch. His footskills coach remarked the other day about this, and this is playing with boys two, three even four years older than him. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, he doesn't suffer fools gladly and will put a player in their place if he feels they make the wrong move. We do watch for burn out, but he is doing something he loves and seems not to be able to get enough of it. I feel burn comes when a child is pushed and stressed way beyond their level of comfort. He is neither of those things. strike, I mentioned your option to my son this morning, it didn't fly. Actually he was a bit incredulous that I would suggest such and thing. He said he wants to try out and get on a good team. For the exceptional player, I really have a hard time believing that a spell on a rec team would be beneficial. What happens after those years when they have been playing in a low key, low stress environment, also likely with less proficient coaches, when these kids want to get back into competitive soccer? Aren't they way behind on their skills and have a less developed "soccer brain"? Yes, I have seen "Goal", but is that what happens in real life?
Do the math. The difference in number of touches is small and can be made up in two minutes by warming up with a ball. The amount of decisions will be similar as the player will always be having to figure out what he should be doing as the balls and players move. The difference is the complexity will be higher and if he's used to watching and playing higher level games he will be ready to handle it. Children develop with different timing and tempo and should be challenged accordingly. Furthermore what is done in practice is more important than the game situation since the practice to game ratio should be much higher and the time on the ball should be close to an order of magnitude more.
Based on what I'm reading you have a better idea of what would benefit your son than many of the people who are probably giving you advice. The only thing I would suggest is you try to minimize the travel as much as possible at this age. As long as you get good technical coaching and your son is challenged, the less time you son is couped up in a car, the more time he can play and enjoy himself. As long as the team your son plays for is competitive, the team results are completely unimportant and no one of use to him will car about how good you son is for 3-5 years. The only thing that matters is whether he is learning. is challenged and the person who is primarily pushing him to excel is himself. If so, he will likely continue to enjoy the game.
I have a few comments regarding playing in the 11v11 format. If 11v11 is all that is available to your son then that is what he will need play. However, regardless of what yonko says, he will definitely touch the ball less and that can be detrimental to his development. If he feels like it in the off-season, there are plenty of 3v3 leagues and tournaments that might be worth looking into. 3v3 is very popular around where I live and though your options might be limited, it can be a wonderful supplement to your son playing 11v11. The key to 3v3 is that the players do touch the ball a lot and the games encourage creativity. The games should be low-key and with minimal coaching – let the players figure things out for themselves. I am a big advocate of 3v3 and have witnessed the benefits first-hand. I have seen mediocre players really take their game up a notch due to playing 3v3. The other thing I would like to address is this comment from striker2019: It sounds as if you do a good job of monitoring for burnout and seeing that your son is enjoying himself but I disagree with what striker says. I think that kids, particularly around your son’s age, should play a number of different sports and get a number of different experiences. Other sports and athletic activities outside of soccer add to the overall motor development of young players. Included in these functions are running, hand/eye coordination, balance, etc... It is important at the formative ages that players develop these skills through a broad range of athletic activities. Whether it be basketball, volleyball, dance or whatever, getting away from soccer to get a different motor demand is important to individual development. It will make your son a stronger player on the pitch as well. Whatever your son does, just make sure that he continues to have fun. Best of luck to him.
The same can be said about you too though. The truth is that I don't think you are completely wrong in your opinion. But you are not completely right either. You just tend to generalize things and you show some narrow-mindedness, which makes me think your opinion doesn't come from experience. And just because you are moderator, it doesn't give you the right to be rude and tell the OP to not listen to me at all. If I had done that to you, then you would've probably given me another warning or a ban or threaten me with editing my post out. Let agree to respect each others opinions and move on.
I agree the number of touches will be less in 11v11 format, but not by as much as many would make it out be compare to 7v7/8v8/9v9. And it definitely wont have negative impact on the development of the advanced player who already spends enough time with the ball during practice and on his own. I've experienced it and I've seen others experience it too. On the other hand I would have to disagree with your suggestion about the benefits of playing 3v3. The best and most useful small-sided format is 4v4. It's better than 3v3 because it offers width and depth from all 4 directions, as well as offering 4 different triangles within the diamond shape. In general I agree with the standard recommendations: U6-U8 - play 4v4 (with or without the addition of GKs) U9-U10 - play 7v7 (6+GK) U11-U12 - play 9v9 (8+GK) U13+ play 11v11 Here in Chicago area all three leagues (YSSL, NISL and IWSL) have finally agreed to these recommendations (for Fall 2010) with the only difference being that U8 also will play 7v7. But then again, with the risk of repeating myself and to avoid being accused of backpedaling, I would say that there is nothing wrong with making an exception for advanced players and teams to play under the more complex game format. It's more important how many practices the players have, how are these practices structured, do the players work on their own and how good is the coach. The difference in touches with the ball between the game formats can be made up with an extra 30 min. of work per week. I see Latino kids that play 11v11 from younger age and they have better ball skills than most non-Latino kids that play small-sided game formats at the same age. Why is that? Because Latino kids play with the ball every chance they get either at practice with the team or on their own. They don't rely on specific small-sided game formats to teach them ball skills. Most of them don't even have a certified coach working with them. It just goes to show that there are many different ways to develop players, aren't there?
I also like 4v4 soccer better than 3v3. Realistically, however, the options are really limited for young players to participate in 4v4 play. 3v3 leagues and tournaments are very common in some areas of the country. During the summer months there are the 3v3 Live and 3v3 Kick-It tournaments that move around to all major metro areas across the country. Also, where I live, there is a local club that sponsors a 3v3 summer league and another club that sponsors a 3v3 indoor winter league that all players within this club participate in as part of their winter training. They spend about an hour working with trainers on technical skills and then the teams play 2 – 20 minute 3v3 games. The league has been very popular and other clubs are invited to the games as well and the kids seem to love it. Additionally, I can think of several clubs in the region that sponsor winter 3v3 tournaments. There is just a lot more opportunity to participate in games/leagues that are held in a 3v3 format as opposed to 4v4. My suggestion for was made to mirzam so that her son had a way in which to supplement his 11v11 play. I think that the additional touches would be beneficial for him. If they can find a 4v4 league, that would be great. The other thing that people always suggest to young players in order to get more touches on the ball is to play neighborhood pickup games. While this sounds like a great idea, it rarely seems to work and is really dependent on what kids live in what neighborhoods. When I was a kid there were always pickup basketball games or football games to participate in but this is not as common today. Kids have a lot more planned activities than they once did and many kids simply do not get out that much. My youngest daughter was fortunate that when she started playing soccer, the local recreational league played the instructional games in a 4v4 format without keepers. When it was noted that she might have the talent to excel at the game and seemed to really enjoy it, one of the local clubs offered training to the youngsters (8 & 9 year olds) for an hour 2 times per week with games held on the weekend. Another club may have been invited for the game day or the games were intra-club. Teams were selected at random and the kids usually played 4 – 10 minutes games and then rotated around to play a different team. There was No coaching, no reffing, and no scores were kept. This was a very beneficial experience for my daughter and seemed to really help promote her love of the game from an early age. I am really hoping that more clubs start to offer 4v4 to the younger age kids.
Sounds like you're in the same metro area as I am. We had just moved from Virginia where kids play 8v8 until U13, so 11v11 @ 11 yrs was a little bit of a shocker for us. All in all, my son loves the big field and the roster for his team is only 15 kids, so they are always playing small sided games. First off, I'd ask your son if he wants to make the commitment to competitive. He needs to understand that he will have to try out and when/if he makes the team, he may not be the best kid out there. He'll have to make new friends and some of the kids on the new team might not be exactly friendly as the season starts- everyone is competing for a spot and some kids need to assert their dominance (i.e be a jerk). If your son wants to go competitive, go with the best coaching available that fits your logistics and budget. If there is a great coach with a smaller club at a price that fits your budget, go for it. There's no reason to drive an extra hour each way, or pay hundreds of dollars more for a larger club with a poor coach. I believe 11s should be focused on at least 75% skills (touch, dribbling, passing, shooting) and 25% (or less) on tactics. A good coach knows how to run a practice that makes boring repetitive skill drills fun. I'd call the directors of coaching for your potential clubs and ask to observe a U11 practice, or a practice with the U11 coach for next season. We are with a big club here which gives us access to some extra trainings / kickarounds each week with older, better kids, but it sounds like you are the type of dad who will go out on a weekend and kick around and do some drills with your kid anyway. You don't need to drive or pay more just for a club's name. If your son really is a superstar, his U11 year isn't going to define his career. Kids switch clubs all the time. If he wants to really put in the effort, he needs to learn in an environment that is fun for him. Good coaches can make practice fun and will motivate him to get better.
It's strange how many people think 4v4 is better yet it's 3v3 that is the most commonly used for small-sided tournaments and leagues. I just can't/don't understand why the popularity, since both formats are doable with 6-players rosters. Especially considering that 4 playing out of 6 equals more playing time than 3 playing out of 6. I also hope more people/organizations implement 4v4 format instead of the 3v3.
How many times during the week does your son's team practice and how long is each practice? I would say that if your son spends 30 min. each day he's not practicing with his team, then he's skills would still improve. It might actually work better for some kids this way. What you can also do on the off day, when the players don't have a team game, is to organize with the other parents a 4v4 pick-up game for 1 hour or so without any coaching at all. What I've personally done is this: 4 kids with 4 dads, each team has 2 pairs of father and son. We play for an hour, we all have fun and a nice workout (for the fathers especially ), then we all go for some pizza & drinks (beer for the adults) and all that gives us a nice bonding experience.
This is very good advice. From a developmental standpoint I particularly like gymnastics and martial arts. Dance would also be good, but is probably not something a young boy would be that interested in. I think these would probably be better than something like basketball which shares similar motor movements to soccer. In the long run participation in sports like these will make your son a better athlete and help reduce the chance of injury.
Funny you should mention dance, my husband has tried very hard to get our son interested in dance, he took him to an all boys break dancing class to see if he would give it a go, but he refused. He actually loves to dance and has told us that when he is a famous footballer in the EPL, he is going to be on the UK version of "Dancing With The Stars"!!!!!! He does rock climbing once a week which he loves. Martial arts is also something my husband would love to get him into, but with all the soccer practice, he just doesn't have the time. He did do Judo as a younger child, but soccer took over.
I don't think is worth it to waste yours and his time with other sports. Especially if he isn't interested himself. There is nothing wrong with being into just one sport. I never played any other sport besides soccer nor did I wanted to. And my two boys don't have any interest in any other sports either. So I'm not going to push them into anything else. I'm sure most of the others will disagree with me and even flame me for this, but that's just my honest opinion.
This is getting to be a bit of a thread drift from Mirzam's original question. Nevertheless, I'll continue with the current discussion. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but, in my opinion, it is very wrong. The example I cited with dance was given because I have daughters. I am not encouraging a boy to dance but if he wants to, he should not be dissuaded from trying it. I will answer yonko by saying that there are very few DI collegiate athletes (the key word here is athlete) that solely concentrated on soccer at the expense of trying other sports. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I think that it is extremely important for young children to participate in activities that give them a different motor demand. All things being equal, and in a 1v1 situation, I will take the player with a varied athletic background over the player that solely concentrated on soccer. There are a lot of college coaches that feel the same way – if they have to choose between recruiting 2 athletes that are very equal they will choose the one with a more varied athletic resume. As way of example, there is a nearby DI university women's program that ended this past season in the top 25 Nationally and in the incoming class about half of the girls played HS basketball. Another girl in this incoming class, that did not play basketball, was state champion in the 1600 in track, placed third in the 800, and ran a leg on the 4x4 relay team at the state meet. This same girl qualified for the state meet for the freestyle in swimming. Basketball, in particular, is a great sport for soccer players to participate in. The sports are actually very similar (aside from the obvious of using hands vs. feet, etc) and a lot of the same strategies are similar to what is used on the pitch. Additionally, the running and jumping in basketball are very good for endurance, speed and overall motor development. For another player example, the best HS keeper in our state is also the best player on her basketball team and she is going to a DI school on scholarship to play soccer. This same girl is a soccer All-American and All-State in basketball. With all of this being said, if Mirzam's son does not want to participate in another sport then he should not be forced to do so – particularly at 11 years of age. The key factor at his age is to have fun with what he doing while growing as a player and athlete. However, as a parent, I would definitely encourage him to try new activities. Yonko is entitled to his opinion but my opinion is that the well-rounded athlete will almost always be the better soccer player. Saying "I don't think is worth it to waste yours and his time with other sports" is very poor advice. Also, with the manner in which yonko wrote this ("Especially if he isn't interested himself"), he almost makes it sound as if he thinks your son should not play another sport even if interested. However, in the end, your son will need to do what makes him happy. Good luck!!
I think it's wrong for you to pass judgement on my advice. You may disagree, but not judge, because it doesn't necessarily make you have the right advice either. Different people, different opinions - leave it at that. I come from the way of thinking that it is better to be good in one thing than average in many things. Some people prefer well-rounded athletes, while I prefer sport specific athletes. Some kids want to play only one sport, others want to play multiple sports - both are fine. However, based on my observation, it's the parents who push their kids to play multiple sports, rather than the kids wanting to do it on their own or being capable enough to handle multiple sports. Most kids want just one sport as it's too demanding for them to participate in multiple sports. That's because in every sport they participate in the coaches and parents demand their best effort, attention, dedication and attendance. How many best efforts can a 10 year old give every single week if he/she played three different sports? Add to that the fact that they are in school for 7-8 hours 5 days a week, and they have tons of homework to do which is graded most of the time. Piling all this stressful activities to young children for what? But you are right. We are getting maybe a bit too much off topic. So let's just agree to disagree and realize that we have different views without judging each other's opinion. Deal?