A while back when this first started being kicked about here, someone mentioned that if Vergara tried it (fielding a team entirely of Latinos), he'd be facing a lawsuit the next day. I mentioned that I thought maybe the work around would be that he could make speaking Spanish a critical qualification in being employed by the club. Someone detailed the possible problems with such a scenario. I'm wondering if this is indeed the plan to try and side step the possible lawsuits he'd face from trying to employ all Latinos.
Uptight, much? There are already 10 teams in the league that cater to English speakers. I think tapping into a potentially very lucrative hispanic market in L.A. is a good idea for MLS, provided the league doesn't give Chivas Los Angeles an unfair advantage by bending the rules for it.
Damn image still isn't working for me, even after viewing the source document. Now that I got the Vader crack out of my system, I should take note of one of the threads on the "main" MLS board, where there's at least one comment mentioning that Vergara hasn't even committed to keeping the indigenas policy in Guadalajara. Probably has something to do with Chivas' crap record of late. I get the sense that, over time, what happens in San Diego or Memorial Coliseum or wherever C-USA ends up (ain't I a stinker) will probably not resemble the original intent. Furthermore... four years ago, maybe even two years ago, I'm not sure MLS could have risked taking on this investor for a potentially iffy operation. In terms of Loney's Church Of What's Happening Now, MLS can take on this club, and chase off Vergara if the situation merits... provided there's a need to chase him off, provided he's guilty of more than just provocative PR here. Thing is, not only don't I mind a Spanish language presence in MLS, I encourage it. It's not like the better young MLS players will get too many chances to simulate Saprissa or Mazatanengo, or maybe, hopefully, Azteca before the US calls on the kids to play there. That's valuable experience when we can get it, if we can get it.
Thanks Matt! Do note that the last post changed. I was testing something out while fleshing out the thought just edited into the post.
What do you mean by this? That MLS caters to English speakers to the exclusion of Spanish speakers? Obviously that's not true. That they cater to both? Yep, I'll buy that.
Well they obviously cater to English speakers more than they cater to Spanish speakers, considering the 10 lame names they came up with and the fact that an overwhelming majority of the players are "anglos".
Dear onebadlinguist: Leave the linguistic analysis to the professionals… Actually, the vast majority of the world is bilingual or trilingual. In much of sub-Saharan Africa, ppl are fluent in 4+ languages. Many Chinese are fluent in either Mandarin or Cantonese plus one of the other 5 major languages PLUS one of the thousands of dialects of the major languages. In India, ppl speak 2-3 different languages. As Europe unites politically, there is an increased emphasis on the almost lost peripheral languages: Galician, Basque, Catalan/Valenciano in Spain and Breton, Provencal, Basque, etc. in France; in Italy there is a renewed emphasis on the city dialects. The concept of a “national” language over vast territories was mastered by the Romans and then taken to a whole different level by the modern hegemonic nation states. Even still, there are many nations w/ more than 1 national language: Belgium and Switzerland are but 2. From what I understand, national teams in these countries get by b/c most players speak both languages. In Catalunya, in my experience the lower levels of sport speak Catalan, but everybody understands Castilian. At the higher levels (2nd Division on up), the primary language is Castilian b/c many (not all) players are from other parts of Spain or the world. Now, where Avocat makes a linguistic mistake is in failing to realize that soccer in many parts of this country is an arena that linguists call a “contact zone”, which means that the 2 languages (English and Spanish) come into constant contact. As such, the division that characterizes a diglosia (a region w/ 2 languages where one [English] is more dominant than the other [Spanish]), is rendered less so than normal. On the fields where I play, the languages are reflective of the intense contact zone: it’s definitely Spanglish out there. The fact that Chivas expresses an interest in having Spanish be the primary language is reflective of the fact that the language is seriously pushing the envelope of what we categorize as “diglosia”. One third of all of California speaks Spanish as their primary language. And that’s the market that Chivas is going for. The Atletic Bilbao point is excellent. Take a look at La Seleccion Espanyola: a healthy % of Basques, primarily b/c Atletic makes a point of developing players for its future. That’s the benefit that Chivas will bring to the USMNT!!!
I posted that. when he was negotiating, he kept his cards hidden. But now he has fully committed to that project.
I think using the Basque region as an example is a very poor one considering the numerous problems emanating from that region.
If he has a majority of players on his team that speak spanish that's fine. The problems with Chivas USA are: 1. Changes to current MLS internation player rules. 2. The idea of hiring only (mainly) players of hispanic ansestry. If he wants to have a team he needs to play by the rules of the league and the country the team is in. This means the international and developmental player rules of MLS and the anti-discrimination rules of the USA. If he can get around those two things and give his team a hispanic flair I'm all for it, I will gladdly replace the Galaxy with Chivas as my most hated MLS team.
But there's no denying that La Seleccion Espanyola has benefited tremendously from Atletic's policy. Given the continued problems to which you refer (terrorists), it's shocking (or not) that Spaniards still support the concept of an all-Basque team. I think most ppl are intelligent to note that ETA and Atletic are not one and the same. (Although some ppl seem to think that Chivas USA is ETA encarnated on this side of the border.)
There have been legal cases where language discrimination has been ruled to be an illegal proxy for racial or national origin discrimination. Language discrimination is still legal if fluency in a particular language is necessary to fulfill the duties of a job. But it would be difficult to contend that fluency in a particular language is a necessary condition of employment as a professional soccer player, as there are numerous examples of successful soccer players in this country and elsewhere who could not speak their team's language. This doesn't mean there's anything wrong with using Spanish as the primary means of communication on the team, but as a pure job requirement it would be on shaky ground.
Well they consist of 75% of the country you know. If an overwhelming amount of the country is White (Anglo would be like calling Puerto Ricans "Mexicans"), it's not exactly a shock the league has its fair share of White players. Also the league is probably only about 55 to 60 percent White. The Galaxy is less than half white, and that's if you count Hong as White and not Asian. If you exclude Hong, there are the same number of White players on the Galaxy (nine) as Hispanic players.
But if he's planning on trying this, that's his best out, isn't it? He can _try_ and argue the necessity or at least the advantage to the club of the player that can speak Spanish. I'd tell him to go pound sand, but judges can be funny sometimes.
Well it seems that you are the bad linguist because i didn't try to go into the history of the world to make a ridiculous non-point like you just did. Your diatribe just circled around saying the obvious, which is that there is a MAJOR language in each particular country in this world that is spoken. In the USA, the language is English. American players in Germany (of which we have a few), actually learn and speak german ....... what a concept. Those in the Netherlands actually learn and speak Dutch. Guys like Walker who go to chile actually learn and speak spanish ........ again, what a concept. I love the way that people are on this board trying to make everyone feel bad about expecting people who work in the United States to actually, oh my gosh .......... speak ENGLISH!! If any American bought into the MFL and passed off the notion that only English would be spoken on the new club, the proverbial sh-t would hit the fan, and no amount of rationalization on your part can reasonably deny that. Your attempt to point out what are basically different dialects of the same languages and compare that to totally different languages is just totally disingenous. Your Spain reference is quite humorous indeed as I have been to Spain, as recently as last year, and have been to Barcelona, and with the limited amount of Spanish that i learned in the states, even I was able to understand the slight difference in speech. I have no problems with people being bi or tri-lingual ......... heck I AM tri-lingual. But certainly, if i went to France, i would expect and be expected to speak the French that i know and not the English, just because i can.
Esquire, what happened to the love? I was just teasing! But, careful w/ the "dialects" of the Iberian peninsula. Catalan is far from a dialect of Spanish. What you heard in Barcelona is a very castilianized variant of a rich LANGUAGE (i.e.: different verb system). And Galician is not a dialect of Spanish; it's actually closer to Portuguese. And Basque isn't even an indo-european language. To clarify: Mallorquin and Menorquin are dialects of Catalan, and depending on with whom you are speaking, Valenciano is a variant of Catalan or vice versa, with slightly different verb systems. When 70% of the players on a field speak a language (no matter which language it may be), expect that language to be utilized as players strive to communicate. At the same time, expect players to use their primary or secondary language, regardless of the linguistic capacity of the intended recipient. Even though I can cuss like a sailor in Spanish, I found myself cussing in English and shouting for the ball in English. W/in weeks, I made the transition, but still would cuss in English sporadically. I've hung out w/ Americans while living in France and Spain. You know what, we spoke English, despite the fact that 75% of the countries speak French and Castilian, respectively. Linguists will point out that languages do NOT function according to such rigid impositions mentioned in your posts. What you described above (w/ an Anglophone in Holland or France) is NOT the linguistic situation of California. You described a monolingual situation. California is a DIGLOSIA in which English dominates in the majority of situations. Soccer is NOT one of those situations. Hence, human beings will operate differently in said situations. Once again, Vergara stating the intended language of Chivas USA is a function of the linguistic reality created by a diglosia. LOL