As an MLS fan and a Latin-American, it gives me such shame to see the MLS executives being manipulated and fooled by Jorge Vergara, owner of soccer club Chivas. It is obvious to any soccer fan in the United States that Vergara is looking out for his best interest and not the future and development of soccer in the US. Rather, he is concerned about his product, and not the product of MLS. Vergara has let it be known through the media that he will want to use Chivas-USA as a development team for Chivas-Mexico and have an all-Mexican team if it allows. But who am I to tell a multi-millionaire investor and team owner what to do with his team IF granted one, right? Well I might have no problem if he based Chivas-USA in a Mexican city, which would actually make more sense with fans from both sides of the border. But it would be absurd to put Chivas-USA in San Diego or Houston, or anywhere else in the US because that would turn away the real fans that the MLS needs to target: Americans. Has the MLS forgotten that? We need soccer to grow with AMERICANS not Mexicans. Yes, you might gain a few more fans from Mexican-Americans, but the majority of Americans will be disgusted by a Mexican-based team playing in their city, sorry but its just harsh reality! It will turn away the average American from MLS and the tough American national media will NOT give its support for such a thing. I am so disappointed in the MLS for not realizing the bad repercussions this will have. This is my first post on bigsoccer.com and I'm happy to be here, but this issue of Chivas-USA is what brought me here to this site, I hope to give an appropriate opionion of how this MLS fan feels about this.
So, how exactly does adding a new team in an American city constitute "taking away soccer from Americans"?
FYI: Not all the Chivas threads are in this forum. There are dozens and dozens of threads pre 10/28/03 in MLS forum and News and Analysis.
The MLS has a foreign limitation which would prevent an all-international team...I think it's 5 per team.
welcome here miCE you have alot to read, before you rethink the above statement Like ucla carlos said, please read other threads on the bottom of the page and get informed before such of a travesity of a comment!
Not exactly: An MLS club can only field three senior international players (age 25 or older). It can also field so-called Transitional and Junior International players: "JI = Junior International (roster protected player 22 years old or younger; DOES NOT count against [a] a team’s 18-man senior roster limit or against team salary budget; COUNTS against League-wide 20-man youth international number) TI = Transitional International (24 years of age or younger; COUNTS against [a] a team’s 18-man senior roster limit, against a team’s salary budget, and [c] against League-wide 20-man youth international number)" The TIs don't help a club field more foreign players, but the JIs do. Furthermore, if a foreigner has permanent resident status (i.e., a Green Card) he doesn't count against the foreign player roster limit. So, yeah, theoretically, one could field an MLS club with no Americans, if one were able to find enough green card holding (and there aren't all that many of them) and young foreigners (though note that there can only be 20 in the league), plus the three seniors international players that each club can have. I just have my doubts that such a club would be competitive.
Look at threads beyond 100 days. Like: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83589 or https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80859
See above cited threads for clarification on what truly has been stated by the interested parties. Given your proclivity to misunderstand advanced English, here's a synopsis: Chivas USA will abide by the league established parameters. NO EXCEPTIONS. FYI: most of those problematic quotes can be attributed to bad translations or to hack writers. http://www.visi.com/~ajwatt/MLSMEX.html Hate to break it to you, but the "average American" to whom you refer is a minority in many current and potential MLS cities. More Mexicans live in Los Angeles County than in ANY Mexican metropol save Mexico City, which happens to be the 2nd largest city on the planet. The #s in the link above are for the general area of each city, but in the city center, Latinos are above 35% in Denver, LA, Houston, Dallas and San Antonio. In SJ and SD, they comprise 25% (approximately). 22 million Mexicans and Mexican Americans reside in the US. I believe that illegal immigrants are about 6 million. But it is not illegal for them to consume. This is a huge #, hardly a minority. Capturing the Latino market is so incredibly important to the long-term stability of the league that new, wealthy, well-connected investors are willing to come in to make it happen. Will Chivas USA work? Will they be able to lure more Mexicans residing in the US into consuming MLS, either to cheer for or against? Who knows.
So let me get this right, your saying that Mexican immigrants will support Chivas-USA but not their local team from the city in which they reside? What's the point, if they don't like the product (MLS) why would they support a "second rate Chivas farm team" from a league they don't support in the first place? I absolutely think this is a bad idea. MLS has gone far enough to pander to specific ethnicities in MLS cities, creating a team specifically for them is absurd. I am a San Diego native and a huge MLS fan, but I will not support an MLS team in my own town (or anywhere else for that matter) that is geared for a "minority" of the local population. You don't see any other league in the Nation promoting such absurd policies. New-comers to the US have adapted just fine to local sports markets in other domestic leagues, there is no need for MLS to deviate from the norm and pander to the smaller pie wedge. TS.
No. I said Will Chivas USA work? Who knows. Chivas USA cannot be a farm team for Chivas Guadalajara. The player exchanges are extremely limited given Guadalajara's policy of Mexican born players only. What Chivas offers is brand name recognition. The club is huge in Mexico, the most popular in the country.
Y'know, I've seen this argument kicked around a lot on BS, but I confess, I don't get it. Theoretically, a team given a franchise in MLS would still have to abide by MLS rules which are pretty clear on team composition with respect to foreign/domestic roster members. Given that, you can only push the "all Mexican" or "all Latino" envelope so far. I've heard elsewhere that to gain a Chivas-USA team, MLS would compromise its rules by making an exception for Chivas, but I can't see that flying, either, because of the hellacious ruckus the other 10 teams would make. If it means better soccer, a larger league footprint, and all that, I don't see the problem. A lot of the other stuff, the "we don't want Chivas because they'll bring out the roudy Latino element that will scare away anglo fans" worries me, though. Not because I think it's true, but because the thinly veiled racism it represents shouldn't be tolerated in the game. In this country we have few enough soccer fans without this sort of divisive influence.
It also wouldn't fly b/c all parties involved have openly stated that that will NOT be the case. See the threads that I also cited above. https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/show...&threadid=83589 or https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/show...&threadid=80859 The entire "confusion" about this came about when somebody asked Vergara IN SPANISH what his ideal MLS squad would look like, ideal as in "pie-in-the-sky", as in "wouldn't it be great if", in other words, hypothetical. He laughed, and then dismissed the question. That was then translated as the demands of a manipulative, coniving conman hell-bent on destroying the foundation of US soccer by investing millions and millions of dollars, absorbing the debt of existing MLS franchises in an evil, dastardly plan to overtake the USA, first w/ MLS but we ALL know that pretty soon all those brown ppl are gonna take over. That's just what Mexicans do. And everybody knows that. (The above, in case you haven't figured out, is a dramatization.) Repeatedly, the same quotes were rehashed over and over and over again by hack reporters who never challenged the original translation. Compounding this were the numerous articles from the Latino press, at times openly embracing that original hypothetical as a workable possibility. Worse still, Vergara's minions (PR ppl whose job it is to pump up interest, or Vergara ppl completely unassociated w/ Chivas Guadalajara) loved the idea. But Vergara never once stated it.
It's got a lot of people talking, check out Erick Wynalda's comments in the latest issue of 90 Minutes Magazine. It doesn't sound like he thinks its a good idea.
Link? I think that article was dissected at some point. It actually is that great a piece of journalism...
Futbol has no borders In reply to MiamiAce's post: "Yes, you might gain a few more fans from Mexican-Americans, but the majority of Americans will be disgusted by a Mexican-based team playing in their city, sorry but its just harsh reality! It will turn away the average American from MLS and the tough American national media will NOT give its support for such a thing." Oh Yes Miami Ace, most "Americans" will not be able to sit in the stands with a bunch of Mexicans... but if they were snooty South Americans that's another thing. I don't like the Chivas, but soon there will be a Chivas USA, the Earthquakes will become America USA, and Americans will realize that futbol is a world sport that you can't put up borders around... yes maybe even snooty Latin Americans in Miami will realize this as well! C/S
MLS can't stay a single-entity forever, so my problem is this. What's going to stop Vergara from taking a great player from MLS and sending him to play with Chivas?
Unless the player is Mexican born that won't happen. If Vergara finally does buy Atlético Madrid would you have a problem if he sent players to Spain?
RE: MLS players going to Mexico Well, sorry to burst your bubbles, but MLS players will go to Mexico if they give them enough money. Nationlism seems to buckle under the color of money! Also, what is the difference between MLS players going to the Mexican league, than if they go to Spain or England. I mean you all don't believe Adu will be in the US that long do you? Even if the America thing falls through with the Quakes, Donovan will be in Europe in 2-3 years any ways. I think many of these young guys see the MLS as the taxi ride to Europe since as youth they are not scouted bu England, Spain, Italy, or Argentina and Brasil. MLS talent will keep going to Europe until the MLS grows in stature. The US is catching up with Mexico, regardless of what happened in Jalisco. It would be best for both leagues to play off of each other in order to stregnthen the CONACAF's abilities and competitiveness in world soccer. I am just looking at it from a CONACAF stand point that's just my two-cents.
or being sent to the new deal in progress: DYNAMO KIEV! a big brother for snooty Chivas USA. In the worse case.....saprissa of CR....nahhhh, they only take costa Ricans.
Re: RE: MLS players going to Mexico If there's one area where MLS is clearly superior to the Mexican teams, it's with the keepers. The MFL has a strange collection of smurf keepers, some of whom are decent, but some of whom are just awful. I have always wondered why one of the MFL clubs doesn't invest in a quality Norte Americano goalkeeper like a Joe Cannon or a Zach Thornton. They'd certainly be willing to work for MFL wages.