Do you have anything to actually add to this discussion? So far it's been a bunch of "haha no way, you're wrong" in the face of facts, reasoned analysis and carlos's ever-present knowitallitiveness. Unless you have anything more than that to say, just say "Well, that's just my opinion" and sit down and shut the ******** up. Your threads are consistently the worst.
Strictly speaking Chivas LA is the better choice if Chivas only wanted to market to LA. If they want to reach all of the USA then Chivas USA is fine however I think they would have been better calling the club Chivas Estados Unidos or Chivas del Norte for that purpose. Whenever i hear USA after something i think of those annoying "Dance Party USA" infomercials during the 90s. So my choices for a Chivas rebranding from a marketing aspect would be: 1. CD Chivas Estados Unidos 2. CD Chivas del Norte 3. CD Chivas USA (no change) Since the organization behind Chivas USA wants to market the team to all of the USA then there is really little wrong with the existing brand. Again that is assuming they want to reach all Chivas fans in the US not just L.A. Next up... CF Club America de Aztlan CF Club America del Norte CF Club America Chicago (hehe)
It has had no effect, in fact I believe that attendence is down this year despite being involved in the playoff race. The Angels were at their height of popularity when they were the, gaps, California Angels. The change to LA Angles of Anaheim has done nothing but make them the laughing stock of non-LA based fans and sports journalists. I'm a Chivas USA supporter who probably would not have been if they had been named Chivas LA or any such nonsense. For every fan in LA who only wears his or her town name there are two across the nation who refuses to do so on the same grounds. You think that people from around the country follow the Dodgers simply because they are from LA? WRONG! How about their history from New York, or does that simply not exist since it won't fit nicely into your asinine arguement
Have you read the thread? The thread starter had no intention of engaging in dialogue and proceeded to spout off some retarded "analysis" in which he tries to compare apples to oranges. The thread starter has no interest in what ppl think, and has no interest in what Chivas fans think, and has no interest in what the Chivas USA FO thinks. So we've called him on it.
I do see your point but what you stated above is exatcly my point. People from all over Mexico follow Chivas de Guadalajara but do you see Jorge Vergara changing their name to Chivas Mexico just so they can conquer all the fan base in Mexico. The same applies to our teams from other major leagues such as the Yankees, Lakers, Raiders, these teams sell out arenas and stadiums where ever they go and you can practically go to any city and see atleast one person wearing their gear. Chivas USA does not sound like a good brand it makes the team sound like if they are touring the United States for one time only and they dont have a place called home. There is only one team that really deserves to have the USA added at the end of their name and that is the Harlem Globetrotters, this the only team that travels to arenas from all over the world and represents the culture of basketball in the US, you would assume since they are so popular alll over the world that they would drop the name "Harlem" and add USA. My point is that Chivas USA needs to have a foundation and that foundation is Los Angeles. We have close to 2 million Mexicans living in L.A. and counting so I dont see why it would be so hard for them add it. Question for Voice of Thunder: I am assuming that you are from Minnesota? Would you support the Twins or Twolves if they had the name USA at the end? Would you honestly consider yourselve a true fan and feel that the team is really part of Minneapolis?
No. It doesn't. They're different realities. Chivas is popular throughout Mexico b/c their "mythology" mirrors Mexico as a nation. Chivas GDL = Mexico... historically... and also b/c they maintain the policy of Mexican players. THAT's why they "conquer" Mexico. There's no need for them to change their name. The "mythology" does the trick. The American sports teams you cite have very different reasons for being popular throughout the country. They're popular when they're good, first of all. And in the case of a few teams from the Northeast, when they play out west and in the south, they have more fans b/c of major westward and southern migration over the last 50 years. The Celtics used to sell-out arenas when they were good. But once Bird retired, the # of exiled Bostonians and New Englanders who show up to away games dwindled. And btw "Showtime" and "Shaq/Kobi", the Lakers away attendance was average. In the case of "diasporas" (like NY "diaspora" in Florida and on the west coast), there is a measurable effect on attendance and merchandising. But most of those teams need to retain their place of origin in their name in order to capitalize on that. But more than anything, being succesful on the field is the best way to make money off their "brand". In the case of Chivas USA, they're inventing a mythology that is extraordinarily complex. It goes waaaaay beyond "mirroring" the US Mexican's experience in the 20th and 21st century. Honestly, it harkens back to millenia upon millenia of migration history and myth making (Aztlan). **btw: I'm not proposing that Aztlan existed historically. It's an origin myth loosely based on reality. But the myth is critical to the modern Mexican psyche. Myth or not. The "foundation" of Chivas USA can be found in Guadalajara. Chivas is a brand. The foundation is set. And there are over 5.5 million Mexicans living in the LA Basin. THAT's the market, not just the 2 mill living w/in the city limits.
Very good points but Chivas has their cities name and the people in Guadalajara are proud to have the team in its city and they are proud that the name "Guadalajara" is recognized in all the Americas. Could the same be said about Chivas USA and its future?
Meh. Again. It's not about "representing LA". It's about representing the Mexican in the US. It's not about an LA identity. It's much, much larger than that. It's about representing 25 million Mexican-Americans.
Its just a shame that 5.5 million Mexicans live in the L.A. areas and out of that amount! 27,000 can come out support a team that its foundation can be found in Guadalajara. I wonder why? I wonder why is it that when Chivas de Guadalajara plays in L.A. out of nowhere 95,000 fans show up, talking about how they are loyal to the Chivas Brand, how they are "Chivas De Corazon", "Chivas hasta La Muerte" etc.. but the funny thing came in the last double header where Chivas played Barcelona and Chivas USA played the Revs. During the MLS game majority of Chivas fans in the stands were booing Chivas USA, screaming and yelling out "bring out the real Chivas" "we paid to see the real Chivas" That answered my question on why out of the 5 million Mexicans that live in L.A. only 11k,12k or 15K come and see Chivas USA play and that is because its fake.
We are starting to see that this USA brand is not working! Its not pulling in Mexican Americans or Mexicans, that is my point. The team name is a joke and its sounds like if a circus has arrived in town. The number in attendance should be enough to show see that people are not buying into it. You see more Mexican Americans at Galaxy games for crying out loud! Question? If the Legion all of a sudden decided to stop supporting Chivas USA? What do you think the attendance might be at every game?
Um. Chivas increased its sponsorship this season. The still lead the league in merchandise sales. They still get great coverage in the Latino press. Their attendance is run-of-the-mill for an MLS club. On the contrary. The number in attendance proves the power of the brandname. Categorically false. About 500 less.
Despite being "Chivas Lite", there's still around 20% of the Chivas fanbase that does want to see their colors in meaningful games. That's not a bad thing. And it's not going to change dramatically by changing the name to "LA" as opposed to "USA". What "USA" accomplishes is it frames the mythology of the MLS franchise in a national context. It's more about the future than the present.
I would because no matter what the name is I know that the team is from Minnesota (Twins refers to the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St Paul for those that don't know). I know that Chivas USA is from LA, no matter what the end of the name is.
I love it when Carlos and I disagree. .. I know that Chivas' party-line is that they represent Mexican's in the US. I know that's what they'd LIKE to do. But it's a bit duplicitous to use the Chivas brand, and then say you represent the desires of all Mexican Americans. It's probably just as duplicitous to say that they represent the desires of all Mexicans immigrants in LA, but with taking the name "Los Angeles", one can at least argue that there is hope for organic growth. Also, I know we've discussed the "exclusionary" aspect of Chivas, which I think neither of us buy - HOWEVER, if by saying "we are not a team of LA, we are a team of all hispanics is the US!", you are being dismissive to the large non-latino/not-impressed-with-the-Galaxy fanbase that resides here in LA. So in other words, while they may be reaching out (in theory) to thousands of Mexican American immigrants who can realistically never attend a home game, and will probably never buy a shirt, they are shutting out the thousands of people here in El-Lay that could and would.
Well we see the future according to what we built today and it looks that the future does not look that bright. I just dont understand, we can see that Chivas USA is not building a solid outcome nationwide. Chivas USA is not selling out stadiums, People are not going crazy to see Chivas USA play, if anything fans that do go see them play want to see Palencia and Suarez, belive me nobody is dying to go see a bunch of unknown players especially if their not Mexican. Their leading goal scorer is White American in Ante Razov you assume that With the Mexican players that they have you would expect for some kind of feedback from fans but thats not the case.
Wrong. #1 in merchandising. Their presence... critical in landing tv league-wide tv deals. ... and what soccer team is? Certainly not any MLS side. Meanwhile, whenever they play in Denver, SLC, SJ, Houston, Dallas, Chicago and @ LAG (obviously)... there's a measurable upsurge in attendance. Maybe not "crazy", but they're going. They're buying. Doubtful that they're the only reasons, but if they are... so what? Are they paying for their tix? Are they buying beer and hotdogs? Are they paying for parking? Are they buying merchandise? yes. yes. yes. yes. That's what matters. Why would I believe you when I can see for myself. Chivas averages run of the mill home attendance and well above average road attendance. W/ a team that isn't 100% Mexican. Like I said earlier, Chivas is mirroring the reality of the Mexican-American. Can't make heads or tails out of this.
Look at the number in attendance when the play at home and away. Look at how much excitment its building with all the Mexican Americans and all types hispanics across the nation. Home games in Bold 04/02 - Sunday Real Salt Lake CHV 3-0 RSL 20,739 04/08 - Saturday @ D.C. United DC 2-0 CHV 11,930 04/15 - Saturday Los Angeles Galaxy CHV 1-2 LA 27,000 04/29 - Saturday New York Red Bulls CHV 0-0 NY 12,404 May 05/13 - Saturday @ New England Revolution NE 3-1 CHV 6,882 05/20 - Saturday @ New York Red Bulls NY 5-4 CHV 9,573 05/27 - Saturday Chicago Fire CHV 1-0 CHI 14,816 June 06/03 - Saturday Colorado Rapids CHV 4-1 COL 8,906 06/08 - Thursday @ Los Angeles Galaxy LA 1-2 CHV 18,260 06/11 - Sunday @ FC Dallas DAL 2-1 CHV 10,737 06/18 - Sunday Columbus Crew CHV 2-0 CLB 12,293 06/21 - Wednesday @ Colorado Rapids COL 1-1 CHV 6,692 06/24 - Saturday @ Columbus Crew CLB 1-1 CHV 12,095 06/28 - Wednesday Houston Dynamo CHV 1-1 HOU 9,689 July 07/01 - Saturday FC Dallas CHV 3-0 DAL 10,112 07/04 - Tuesday @ Real Salt Lake RSL 0-0 CHV 20,752 07/08 - Saturday @ Houston Dynamo HOU 3-1 CHV 11,735 07/15 - Saturday Los Angeles Galaxy CHV 0-0 LA 20,820 07/20 - Thursday @ Colorado Rapids COL 3-3 CHV 07/26 - Wednesday @ Real Salt Lake RSL 3-3 CHV 13,056 August 08/12 - Saturday @ Chicago Fire CHI 1-2 CHV 17,066 08/19 - Saturday Kansas City Wizards CHV 1-1 KC 10,989 08/26 - Saturday Houston Dynamo CHV 3-2 HOU 13,665 September 09/03 - Sunday D.C. United CHV 1-2 DC 14,588 It seems that the only team that Chivas USA does well in attendance is against The L.A. Galaxy (WOW). We are sure taking America by storm
Um. You need to compare the attendance for the home teams in the games around the same time frame: early season, mid-summer, late summer/fall. Forget NY. Forget C'bus. Forget NE. Forget DC. Forget KC. In all of those markets, there aren't enough Mexicans to make a difference. For the 3rd time, look at: Denver SLC Houston Dallas Chicago Here's how it's done: In 4 Sat. night games in Chicago in July and August, the Fire had 11,374; 13,111; 15,094; 11,262. Then Chivas came to town: 17,066. That's 2,000 ppl clear of the previous high, 13% raise over the DCU game and 27% higher than the average comparable game. That's. Significant.
You're talking to the guy who posted pictures of DC's supporters groups against Chivas from an afternoon game in August 2005 and compared them to pictures of Legion 1908 from a Chivas/LA/Guadalajara/America double header as a means of judging the respective groups.
Dude!! What gives? Weren’t you last week boasting in another thread how Chivas and the Galaxy have the best attendance/supporters in MLS. Mmmm, you got some explaining to do lol
Ok this makes a lot of sense............a lot of non sense. Because we all know that no one outside of NY is a Yankees fan, and no one outside of LA is a Lakers fan. If anything I think putting the abreviation "USA" in their name probably turns more mexicans away from supporting the team. Having LA in the name would open up the possibility of a lot more American sports fans following the team, because the name would make a lot more sense to them. People don't like what they don't understand, and having a team name like this in the US makes no sense to the average sports fan. To sum it up.....Chivas USA is just dumb, and wasn't thought threw very well.
Oh that's RIGHT!!! I remember than now! Hahaha that was pure comedy! Not taking anything away from Legion but they aren't the Barra just yet.