Here in the west coast both the Uzbekistan and China games were at 3:30 AM, but I woke up to watch both of them. Good game China you guy sare better than I thought and have improved. I was scared to death when we were down 0-2, and thank God we were able to at least salvage a tie. I thought Iran played much better in the 2nd half though too bad we tend to start off slow. Against Uzbekistan the Uzbeks scored first on us as well and we needed two 2nd half goals to win the game. We can't keep doing this we need to attack for the entire 90 min. Good game and good luck guys.
Indeed. When the coach has dictated a strategy for the team, it's only right for the captain of the team to back up the coach's case, or at least it looks like ZZ thinks so. I don't think Zhu, as bad a tactician as he is, has left a lot of openings for the players to openly rebel against.
China didn't pace themselves in this game. IMO they wasted most of their energy in the first half and as a result were dead tired in the latter parts of the game. You could clearly see this in their midfield in the second half. Overall it wasn't a good game for Iran. I honestly think we took China too lightly. We have to play much better than this to win the cup. I think it was a good lesson learnt and our team will only get better.
The result is good for China since Iran is an overall better soccer nation. However, I do noit see signs that China is getting anyway. They still made the same age old mistakes of using running as a a tool to win games. Thius game reminded me of 10 years ago when China took a 2-nil lead against Iran and fell straight down to earth in a WCQ. They also made the same mistakes in Asian Cup 1996 against Saudi Arabia. They took the Saudis apart in the first half before falling again.
And the only one who has flair guess what happened to him. He got to sit out the whole match. Dong Fangzhuo should've kicked the chair in Zhu's ********ing face again. Wu Wei'an on the NT would have been wonderful. Stupid Zhu. I shouldn't have said it was all his fault but the fact remains because of his foul China gave Iran that FK which led to the 2-1 goal. As a veteran and lead defender he should have known better and be extra careful when there were only a couple of minutes left in the first half. Even though the call by the ref, who was horrible today, was a bit questionable since Li had positioning, but Li still should have played it cleaner. There were two other Chinese players right next to him he really didn't have to stick out like a sore thumb like that. Anyway I'm not calling for his head since his replacement Du Wei is much worse. Also I agree with your game analysis. I have no idea why Zhu Tin played instead of Dong Fangzhuo. With Zhu's mind made up on defending the 2-0 lead, Dong's flair and presence upfront could have still hindered Iran's organizing worryfree attacking in the latter part of the game when Shao (who has a reputation of not being able to finish any 90 min game lol) was left out there as the lone striker. If Dong had been subbed in, the plan of defending the lead into a victory would have been a lot more viable.
Dong hasn't done anything at any level, he needs to accomplish something before he can have an ego. The fact of the matter is he has been benched in the U20 WC in 05, benched by his manager in Man Utd, and benched for AC07. The kid is not ready yet, its not like Zhu is the only coach not to play him in games. Give him time to grow and don't use the excuse of him not being on the pitch as a way to attack Zhu. He put him on against Malaysia and what did he do!?
Some young players potential needs a good coach to discover and develop and more importantly encourage. Dong is not exactly without accomplishment he scored quite a few goals in Belgium and several games that he played (against palistan the great run, the header against Germany? and the havoc he wreaked in the Aussies defense) for the China NT he was the main threat among all Chinese players. Malaysia was too weak an opponent to be telling and China was already leading 4-0 when he got subbed in in the latter part of the second half. I admit it's not the easiest thing to argue for him based on numbers alone with you, since you're right he doesn't have a lot, but remember neither did Ronaldinho when he just started starting for his teams. But in any event even as a sub Dong would have been better than either Zhu Tin or Wang Dong or Shao Jiayi or Du Wei out there, a lot better, probably just better enough to make a difference in making it a 2-1 instead of 2-2 game.
LOL when did I say Dong is the savior of Chinese soccer. All I said was today he would have made a much better sub than Zhu Tin or Du Wei or the cramping Shao. Flair means you'll be able to intimidate and create with a flash of individual skills and presence, such as Hao Haidong. Dong Fangzhuo has that look and in his limited PT on the NT has created his fair share of great runs or making-something-threatening-out-of-nothing's, things that journeymen such as Shao can only dream of doing. Why would anyone pick on him when he was subbed in after China was already leading 4-0 on a weak Malaysian team? Who cares if he did jack there? But when China was in tough situations he was the only one showing some real threats, such as against the Aussies or the game against Palestine or the East Asian games against Korea (or was it Japan) when he created threatening opportunites for China that elevated the Chinese team a notch better. A perfect example of flair, as a team, would be the Japanese team of the last several years. The Chinese NT, the one that was arguably the strongest ever when China was all but certain to advance to the WC finals if it hadn't been for Saudi Arabia's intentional throwing away a 0-5 game, had flair. Unfortunately, the most creative guy on that squad, Gu Guangming, is unfortunately still the most creative guy on any China NT squad to this day. Wu Wei'an, reminds me of Gu Guangming a lot. PS: speaking of whom, does any one have a video of Gu Guangming (古广明) playing? Would appreciate it a lot.
Wait, what? Malaysia was too weak? Dong can only perform against strong teams? I don't get it. He had plenty of time in the Malaysia game and had the ball at his feet a few times with a good chance to show his "flair", unfortunately his dribbling skills were a bit lacking... I totally disagree that Dong would have made a good sub in the Iran game, there was simply no way to work him in. I think we'd all agree that Zhu's first sub, Wang, was a decent move. You want Dong to play on the right wing in midfield? Is that even a position he's ever played? Shao Jiayi can't really go 90 minutes, but Zhu had stupidly used up his 2nd sub, Han was hurting which forced him to sub off Han and wanting to hunker down and keep things at 2-2, he put on Du. My problem isn't so much with his defensive strategy at the end (though it took a huge risk if Iran would have scored a 3rd, because China would be left with no attack), but with the defensive strategy from the start of the 2nd half and the Mao sub. Its easy to think of the great plays Dong has made, but just as easy to think of the crappy plays he's made...This attitude that the "other guy" is so good is so prevalent and it almost always leads to disappointment for us. That said, I want to see a flat 4-4-2 with Han and Dong together against Uzbekistan. In any case, since this is about the Iran game, does anyone else think that the one player we are missing more than anyone is Xu Yunlong. His versatility could have really helped us out there and especially considering our situation against Uzbekistan, missing 2 of our best players...
Stop putting words in my mouth. The point being when China was already ahead 4-0 against the weak Malaysian team the focus of the team wasn't there and in that situation being just subbed in Dong not playing well when there's no focus and urgency in the team shouldn't be used to discredit a promising young player. Dong instead of Zhu Tin today would have been a lot better by maintaining a level of attacking threat so Iran couldn't have simply organized their offense worryfree. For the Uzbek game, I agree Han and Dong upfront would be ideal, with Dong's creativity and the opportunistic Han feeding off the ripples created by Dong.
Kami...you forgetting that TM uses the same "double up" tactics against stronger world class teams. remember WC06 vs. mexico. TM really put all they had out in the first half. that was one of few times where i saw TM at a world class level.
well exactly this is a known tactic vs stronger opponent you double your work rate and BAM you get results only problem is it is impossible to maintain it through out the game unless you are a world class team!
You guys know a lot more about the Chinese team than I do so I can't say for sure whether Dong should've come in or not. But China looked like they would BLOW AWAY Iran in the first half and they DEFINITELY should've won the game. They should've made the move that would have kept them attacking more in the 2nd half since they hardly attacked at all in the second half since Iran's defense isn't that good and their goalkeeper has been flamed by Iranians for being awful. Zhu said he only took off Peng and Mao since they were tired and he said he would never say to play only defensive football. Here is what captain Zheng Zhi said: Zheng admitted that fatigue got the better of his side in the second half after their high tempo start to the match, which saw them taking the lead through Shao after only six minutes. “For us, the biggest problem was that we were tired and we couldn’t attack them like we did in the first half,” said the ex-Charlton Athletic player. They need to work on their conditioning since you need your best players to be able to play most or all of the game.
Not true, Ronaldinho played in the youth WC (actually played), played in the Copa America and in the Confederation Cup in '99. Plus in the Copa Libertodores for his Brazilian side. I'm not saying Dong doesnt have ability, simply that he doesnt fit into the current tactics. We have had two coaches bench him, so I wanted to say that I dont think its fair to say Zhu is stupid based on him not using Dong.
That makes no sense to me... I have never seen a team keep up the pressure for 90 minutes, not in the Euros not in the WC nor Copa America, the only team that comes close to it is Korea in 2002, and I doubt an Iranian will say they are a world class team. Can you please name one of these world class teams with unlimited workrate?!
LOL Iran is not world class I just agreed with the guy that we could only maintain our high work rate game for one half... I didn't make my final sentence clear what I meant was if they manage to hold on for the whole game they are already a world class team which makes the argument irrelevant from the get go (as in they didn't double the work rate and just showed their normal game which was on par with the strong side)... didn't mean that there is a team out there that plays 90 minutes on double the work rate!
Unfortunately, both Dong and Yu Dabao were discovered by foreign scouts before anyone in the CFA establishment found them. Ronaldinho had better luck by being in a more soccer developed country. Current tactics? Isn't that exactly where the fans are having problem with stupid Zhu? In you mind, exactly what is Zhu's tactic? And in what way Dong doesn't fit in? Maybe it's time for Zhu to change his "tactics" then. It worked real well last game, fooling the Iranians into attacking full force worryfree for the latter part of the match. The other guy was a joke and was just benching Dong to make a statement. One guy's mistake doesn't justify the other's. A previous coach Haan misused Sun Jihai completely. Doesn't make it OK for other coach to do so. Plus, Zhu's stupidity is not limited to his misuse of Dong Fangzhuo. My contention is, with Dong in instead of Zhu Tin or Du Wei subbed in, the situation could have looked very different, judging by Dong's history of wreaking havoc in the other side's defense. You seem to know for sure that's not the case.
I think Dong is very out-of-form (evident in the World XI and the Malaysia match), that's why he was unused against Iran. Zhu is not a complete idiot. If Dong is in-form he would use him.
Agree with Xu Yunlong. Good solid player. Very versatile and experienced. I would be bold enough to replace Sun Jihai with Xu Yunlong. I think Xu is better on headers and seems to have more strength and tougher on tackles than Sun. Who else think it's actually not a bad idea to play Sun Jihai as central DMF? Every time I see him play DMF in Man City, he performed well. I like his high work rate, decent positioning, and accurate passing. He's getting slower as he ages, so taking him out from RB where high speed is required would be a pretty wise choice I think. This can be a possibility: (4-3-2-1) --Xu Yunlong---Li WF---Zhang YK----Sun Xiang ------------------Sun JH------------------- -----Zhou Haibin---------------Mao------------- --------------ZZ------Shao---------------- -----------------Han Peng------------------
Xu traveled to the US with the team right? I don't remember he doing anything special. But yeah he used to be quite good.