Chickenhawks

Iran recently had an election that is going to change the world.

 

1) In what way is this relevant to the thread

2) Perhaps you should expand on your point a bit.

 

The topic at hand has been discussed ad nauseum on this board. There is nothing that can be added at this point.

 

Didn't a senator's kid recently join the marines? I would have thought the guy would have been cannonized by now.

 

Well, it actually is a relevant topic at this time

Cheney, whose complete military experience consists of four deferments, is judging the opposition in Iraq is in its last throes. Furthermore, W, who was rubbing coke on his tip when he had a chance to see real combat, can judge the validity of the allies' counter-insurgency strategy and how to best communicate it. Finally, Rove claims that Reeps were ready for war after 9/11, yet he wasn't ready to go after the commies when he had his chance. But Max Cleland, who was smeared vehemently by Rove's tactics, actually did go.

 

Governor Pataki's son just joined the Marines.

 

This reminds me of calling out Dem. senators for sending their kids to private schools.

 

Presumably to avoid getting killed?

 

Quite possibly.

 

Rather amusing, given this is your M.O.

 

How many of the Dems that supported the war in Afghanistan signed up for service? Or there kids? Or those who post here?

Hell how many signed up for service when no wars were being fought?

And while we are on the topic of Draft Dodgers, don't forget Bubba and his trip to England to avoid war. While Bush didn't go on active duty, he did go into the guard which is still part of the military, still a step above what certain other draft dodgers did.

I seem to recall Bubba putting US troops in harms way even though he was a draft dodger, did you attack him as chickenhawk then?

 

What did he learn? That it is easier to send others to do what he himself was never willing to do? He sent troops to Africa, to Bosnia, to Iraq, yes Iraq in continuence of policy set forth from the previous Admin, Haiti, so while he didn't call himself a war President, he certainly got us involved in more then a few.

As for what he did in his terms, his inaction during his admin, his cutting of the Armed Forces, his reduction in Intelligence overseas, his impotence in responding adequetly to numerous terrorist attacks against the US and US interests and forces overseas directly led to the worst terror attack ever. Perhaps had he spent less time ripping people off in Whitewater and finding interns to blow him, then perhaps he could have done his job as Commander in Chief.

You also failed to respond to my question. Did you call him a chickenhawk for doing the very thing you are complaining about with Bush? Or are double standards and hypocracy the standard with your group?

I am willing to say that I supported the war in Iraq, despite not finding WMD's which is a big disappointment to me, we did remove a genocidal leader and Iraq is better off for it. But now I want the troops out of Iraq. It is devolving into a no win situation because those in charge did not plan out how to disengage from the war after we acheived our goals of removing Hussain and removing any threat of WMD's.

It is time to bring our troops home, bring troops home from Europe and put more effort into taking out AQ wherever they may be.

 

Bubba was also against the Vietnam War.

That being said, the notion of those supporting Iraq not sending their kids to war, or going themselves, is silly IMHO. The fact that so many of those responsible for CREATING the war took such pains to avoid Vietnam themselves, however, is relevant.

 

For me, whenever a draft dodger sends others to war, something they themselves weren't willing to do, bothers me. Bush I was a WWII Naval Aviator so him sending troops to war was something he himself knew about and could understand the orders he gave. With Bubba, well he didn't mind sending troops off to fight, but he himself would never have gone. As for Bush II. He didn't go to fight, but he didn't leave the country either to avoid service. He found a way to get into the guard, something that many others did too BTW. It is still a cop out, but he didn't completly avoid serving either though.

 

It's not just W, or just about W. He has surrounded himself with a bunch of chickenhawks. The one guy with some military credibility, Powell, was pretty muich the laughing stock of his first adminstration. The rest (Cheney and his four deferments, Rummy and his nothing, Rove and his nothing, Rice and her nothing, Wolfowitz and his nothing, the list goes one, this is both boring and infuriating) and willing to send others to war with no direct knowledge of what it means.

W stands for WUSS. And he surrounded himself with wussies.

 

As I said, it was a cop out, and he didn't leave the country, that puts him above Bubba in that regard.

But we are digressing from the subject, and my question remains unanswered, if you call someone a chickenhawk for supporting a war but not joining the service, do you also apply that label to those who supported the War in Afghanistan but didn't join? Or Desert Storm?

I feel comfortable calling both parties who supported both wars but didn't join a chickenhawk. I served. I served during time of war, and after 9/11 inquired about rejoining the service. So to me, anyone who supported any war but never served and/or did not want to sign up is a chickenhawk. It doesn't matter if the war is popular or not, the pricipal is the same. And I don't think that calling someone a chickenhawk when the name caller themselves didn't actually serve is hypocritical at best.

 

I will agree with you here. Again I have no respect for those who send others to war when they themselves were faced with the prospect they ran and hid, thus my feelings towards Bubba, and to the current administration. I have respect galore for Powell and truly wish he would run in a 3rd party for the office.

My problem with people calling others chickenhawk here is that they themselves didn't go running when a war they supported started. I believe in holding ourselves to the same standards that we hold others too. If someone wants to paint a label like chickenhawk on someone, I hope they are looking in the mirror when they speak.

 

actually, it was five, the fifth being a paternity deferment (huh? what's that?)

and nocal forgot rummy and wolfowitz, who received deferments to korea and vietnam, respectively

 

I'll be the first to cluck (or whatever a chickenhawk says) but I'm not sending anyone else out, either.