BTW: Big Thumbs up to Sparky for heading up and comforting the little girl in section 8 who got hit with an errant Dallas shot in the second half. That is community relations and supporting the fans.
PETER WILT I think that Peter Wilt is going to have to come on the boards (or someone PM him to get him over here) to try to clarify what is going on.
I know that, but why they felt they needed to throw someone out of the game. That just basically ruined the game for a lot of people.
No, there was more to it than that. I think Dave wanted Jaqua to replace Razov, who refused, and then was forced to take off Perez. Thee was no nned to replace a defender with a forward in that situation. Plus, it looked like Dave was trying to get to Ante immediately following the game to talk but thought better of it. I doubt it's a big deal. But that's the way I think it went down.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a meeting with the front office last year, with several representatives from various fan groups, where we agreed that we wouldn't use YSA anymore while we were in Naperville? I wasn't there because I was in Korea. I don't want to have anything to do with this debate anymore, but I'll probably get sucked in again. Later, COZ
I'd agree with this. Supporting one of your own is cool. The "half of silence" seemed appropriate. But don't let a few security clowns trying to feel good about themselves ruin the experience for you. I sit in section 106 (VIP), otherwise known as "the land of silence." (Although there are a couple dozen of us really vocal, passionate, fans there too.) I for one missed you guys leading the way. But I honestly don't think most folks even really noticed the silence. You guys missed a great half, soccer-wise, to go nuts. Someone else mentioned what I think the real issue is - get the family section away from section 8. It makes no sense to have the two groups together. That's the problem. Not the zelous fans that make up 8.
As far as not filling section 8, I bought the 20 game voucher season ticket package, and twice this year when I tried to redeem them at the game, they told me section 8 was already filled and I had to pay for an upgrade to sit in another section. (my fault I guess for not redeeming them until gameday)
The security guards (and police) at NCC are kittens compared to the jack booted thugs we had previously at SF, or have we already forgotten the infamous GARCIA. Wether or not the action last night was right I am sure Liam will agree he was not man handled as previously mentioned by a poster (and Liam would know!!).
Time for the Barn Burners to really start upping their numbers I think. Do they still exist as a supporters group, or is it all informal now?
I haven't forgotten Garcia, but unless my memory is shot (a distinct possibility) Garcia didn't give a rat's SS about profanity. They were looking for flares, smoke bombs, cigarettes, bottles etc. Two more points. First, I find it ironic that a quiet section 8 makes all of the profanity coming from the players and the bench audible. Perhaps soccer mommy will ask security to please have Razov refrain from using dirty words that her kids can hear. Second, people are delicately tiptoeing around the suburbs v. city arguments in an effort not to re-open the can of worms, but I think this whole incident detracts from the argument "if you are a true Fire fan you will go no matter where the games are." The make up of the support will be very different depending on the location. It is not unreasonable for people to lose interest if the games are far away and the crowd is milk toast. It's a decision for the Fire and AEG to decide what they ultimately want the Fire to be.
Thank you, Coz. That's the one thing I keep remembering back from last year...that two things came out of that whole debate. 1) That section 8 would clearly be marked as a supporter's section, and 2) The YSA chant would have to go. The team lived up to point 1, even if that one woman ignored it. The fans had largely gotten rid of point 2, but it was back with a vengance last night. I can't believe the indignation and surprise at the fact that this happened. I thought it was made pretty clear last year that it would. Liam apparently got screwed because of guilt by association, but I guarantee you that if someone who WAS yelling it, despite the team last year begging you not to in several forums, we'd be still reading the same posts. I think an earlier poster, and I forget who, had a great idea....the team clearly states that it's a supporter section. If people are complaining and not standing, then yeah, ask security/an usher to have them moved. They aren't fulfilling their contract as a ticket buyer. If they don't, then follow up with the team. That said, even if you move them all to the other side of the field, let's face it, there's a difference between one person saying A--hole on TV or in the stands and an organized chant of 3-500 people yelling it. 3-500 people yelling it...it's gonna carry.
True enough. It's also not unreasonable to think people will lose interest if the games are far away (read city) and the crowd is raunchy. I'm not knocking anyone, I'm just sayin'....it goes both ways.
Maybe that was the case over in the east stands, but not so everywhere. Shortly after the beginning of the second half quite a few people over in the west stands noticed that something didn't "feel right" - it was almost palpable. There were several "what's wrong" type comments. Having been engrossed in the game, we didn't pay too much attention to what may have transpired in the stands, but it soon dawned on us that the stadium had become very quiet. Someone then noticed that the folks in section 8 were sitting down! And then we realized that all the flags and banners were gone from the section. The general feeling was as if someone had let all the air out of the stadium. The second half was like attending a chess tourney as far as crowd involvement was concerned. What a sterile environment. When the match was over several of us speculated on the cause of the quietness and pretty much concluded that regardless of the cause, the differences between the first and second halves was enough to consider the possibility that if the second half were to become the norm, that all the difficulty in getting out to Naperville for the games may not be worth it. If I want to follow the match in a quiet room, I can do that with a television. Part of the enjoyment of partaking the game live is the crowd experience, and when that is sucked out, a large part of the rationale for attending the stadium is lost.
And again, I've tried real hard to start other chants and cheers as soon as the ball goes over the end line. If you want YSA to stop, join in and encourage others around you to do it, too. Personally, I've got a ton of opinions about this, but the team's position is clear, and the intransigence of a lot of Section 8er's makes it tough to have any sympathy for them, so what I think is largely moot and/or will end up on my website tomorrow. I talked to Peter and also to a couple of players after the game, so they know what was up. Just in case you're wondering. Back on the game, somebody buy Phil Sayler a VCR, so he can watch tape of Ante Razov making that exact same move on Kenny Arena last week. And I think the late substitution confusion was because the signboard didn't appear to be working. Later, COZ
Re: Top of the league! No, but this does: MLS SOCCER CHICAGO FIRE - VS - METROSTARS CARDINAL STADIUM SAT JUN 28 2003 3:00 PM Chicago Fire vs. Metrostars North Central College, Naperville, IL Sat, Jun 28, 2003 3:00pm Price | seating chart Section: PRICE LEVEL 6 Location: NORTH FIREHOUSE - GENERAL ADMISSION Additional: FANS MUST STAND/CHEER/WEAR RED & SUPPORT TEAM © 2003 Ticketmaster. All rights reserved.
True. But then again it is incumbent upon ALL of us to create the atmosphere we want to watch the game in. If you want to cheer and go nuts in your section, do it. That's what several in our section do. Don't get me wrong, section 8 rocks. Can't imagine the game without them. But do your own thing. It is possible as individuals (maybe not whole sections) to go crazy without being led.
Let's not force them to make that decision. You're basically asking them if they want a fan base of no-hassle families that are willing to pay upwards of $30 per ticket vs. a smaller fan base of people who find a way to cause trouble for security, management, PR, etc. at virtually every game... and they only pay $13 per ticket. Yes, let's definitely not force anyone in management to make that choice. I know PW likes us and appreciates our vocal support, but seriously, you think his loyalty to section 8 is going to override any business decisions that would probably lead to him having a more easily manageable fan base and better revenue? Don't even talk about forcing management to make the choice.
Excuse me. If the security folks would worry about security and not try to impose their moral values on those whose ticket purchases help pay their salary, there would be no problems. Security is about safety and well-being of the people who attend the events. I have seen nothing, repeat nothing, that has come anywhere close to becoming a genuine security concern from any of the activities of the people who sit in the north end. Management has reaped a wealth of positive publicity from the fervor of those north end inhabitants. The PR value to the team has been immense. If management choses to chuck that, that is their choice, but I would hope that they would have more sense than to even conside that kind of a move.
I don't think that taking off Perez = taking off a defender. He and Mapp were a collective sieve on the left side in the first half. Mapp in particular was just plain loafing. I was very disappointed in his effort. Only Dallas' totally inept midfield play/finishing and Jim Curtin kept them from putting in 1 or 2 in the first half from attacks on our left side. Same thing happened against NY/NJ first half, but Magee, Clark and others couldn't put shots on net. We are living a truly charmed life in the back. Offensively, you couldn't ask for more through the middle of the field. It's a joy to watch the finishing and effort put forth by Ralph and Razov. Ante is demonstrably the team leader on the field, as well. Dallas - pity their fans. Chad Deering - your room in the retirement home is ready ... breakfast at 7 am and bedtime by 8:30 sharp. Only players that I thought played well were Gbandi and Vaca (sub).
Just a lurker on here from afar. We have the same problem in Portland from time to time with Section 107 (Timbers Army section) security. There will always be tight wad fans, for some reason when people have kids they expect the world to cater to them. I have seen it happen to my own friends...it's weird. Anyways...when some mohter/father has piped up recently we have taken to saying "Us fans don't go into your daycares banging drums, chanting and blowing horns, why do you feel as if you can come to a soccer game and treat it like a daycare? " Number always help. We now average about 150 individuals in our section who are standing and singing and security just has to let us go because they can't pick on one person.
For what it's worth, the incident last night had absolutely nothing to do with Rent-a-cops flexing their false muscle. They were instructed by someone of the Fire to eject somebody (whether it was specifically Liam, I don't know) but they didn't just decide to go up and do that. The security people at Naperville are just like any other security people. They like to stand up and act tough, but when it comes down to it unless there is a real security issue, they dont and wont do anything. In this case, it was not security's moral values, it was the Fires, appearently. Let's keep the facts straight.