cheaper stadiums

Discussion in 'MLS: Expansion' started by dfffd61, Jul 14, 2005.

  1. DCSharksFC

    DCSharksFC Member

    Feb 28, 2003
    Virginia Tech
    for MLS fans, stadiums wont come cheap b/c they'll need the amenities, concessions etc to make it a world class facility, look at the expectations most fans want: a stadium, but a world class one, and the HDC upped the bar, and so will PHP(i think thats a drug too)

    since HDC upped the ante, MLS will want/need quality with the product they're gonna get

    just take a look at some j-league stadia, they're about rite up with the MLS, 15 years i think?? and all their teams have some nice stadia, although the world cup helped some
    http://www.wldcup.com/Asia/stadia/stadiums.html
     
  2. wufc

    wufc Member

    May 1, 2005
    UC Irvine
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Aside from the WC venues, a lot of those under 20,000 seaters look awesome, even though they're several decades old. It's a shame so many of these stadiums have tracks around them.

    And dfffd61, let's see how many MLS teams can get into SSS by the end of the decade. Aside from Revs, Chivas, and as far as we know, San Jose, the rest of the teams either have SSS coming or have pretty solid plans for SSS. I think we should focus on how cheaper stadiums can help the USL.
     
  3. Throwins

    Throwins Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Around the Puget Sound
    When the English went to all seater stadia after the Highbury disaster the costs initially were very high. However as more and more companies entered the bid/build process the prices came way down. Linpave of Lincoln was able to build a fully equiped grandstand for $130 per seat, including roof toilets concessions etc. If you look at Lincoln City, Wycombe and Burnley you can see what they have done. The 2 deckers were around $250 per.
     
  4. dfffd61

    dfffd61 New Member

    May 30, 2005
    Lubbock
    I think more than just those three teams have stadium situations up in the air. Kansas City and D.C. seem to be going in the right direction. Colorado and Chicago are already getting started, but the rest are far from certain. The Metros' situation in Harrison seems to be going nowhere, as does Salt Lake. Add in Chivas, San Jose, New England, that's almost half the league that is in doubt as to whether they will get their stadiums before the end of the decade. If I owned San Jose, for instance, I'd be trying to get the County to half the costs of a new stadium at the fairgrounds and build another Crew Stadium for $25 million. Parking is already in place, public transport, free land, seems like a winning situation to me. Salt Lake has the same possibility at their Fairgrounds.
     
  5. piltdownman

    piltdownman Member

    Jun 24, 2005
    vancouver
    Those numbers seem pretty low. The new Whembly is going to cost £3,918 a seat. Here is a Link to a cost on a bunch of stadiums.
     
  6. wufc

    wufc Member

    May 1, 2005
    UC Irvine
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I heard that just buying the land was over $200 million.
     
  7. amancalledmikey

    Oct 27, 2003
    I have a bindle at this point...
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Wembley's cost includes not only the stadium itself, which is decadent and has been blighted by problems, but also upgrading approach roads, upgrading Wembley Park tube and Wembley Central train stations, building new walkways and even a new bridge.

    However, as I said, the new stadium is so decadent, with an NFL amount of corporate facilities that cost more than just an ordinary stadium. They wanted to make a stadium that felt better than any in the country, just like Wembley used to feel in the 70s and 80s. However, with the new Arsenal and Liverpool stadiums likely to be the quality of, say, the best of the new stadiums in Portugal, they need to spend that bit more money.
     
  8. piltdownman

    piltdownman Member

    Jun 24, 2005
    vancouver
    That cost of £3,918 per seat is based on a total cost of £352,603,000 which is only the construction portion of wembley. That is the price that Multiplex bidded, and is getting paid to build the stadium. It also looks like that company will actually lose £42,000,000 on the project. The total cost of the new Wembley, including land, legal, and infrastructure improvements is £757,000,000, or £8,411 a seat.

    All that said Wembley is going to be state of the air. But still I don't see how its going to cost an order of magnitude more per seat (if we stick with just the building and not the total cost) than any other stadium built now. I can see it being much cheaper if built in a place with low labour costs, but not that cheap and I don't think that would include many MLS cities.
     
  9. lufty

    lufty Member

    Aug 21, 2000

    no we haven't
     
  10. dfffd61

    dfffd61 New Member

    May 30, 2005
    Lubbock
    $130 per seat = $2.6 million for a 20,000 seat stadium.

    Did you forget a zero?
     
  11. amancalledmikey

    Oct 27, 2003
    I have a bindle at this point...
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    $130 per seat is a cheap old stadium though I would assume that's just putting seats on the old terrace. You just need to repaint the terrace and stick some seats on there, bolt them down and that's a stand. Having been all over the country, I would assume that's what has been done in places like Rotherham and certainly is what Fulham have done, which is a horrible uncomfortable ground. Most of these places also have a large walkway at the front and you walk up to your seat.

    Regarding new stadiums, Southampton spent something like £1,000 per seat on St Mary's Stadium and were congratulated for the way they spent it. That included all costs, land purchasing and, IIRC, a small amount of upgrading to a local occasional rail station. In my opinion, the seats are far too tight and I can't stand these generic, one-tier stadiums but they did it and were heavily praised.
     
  12. WarrenAbao

    WarrenAbao New Member

    Jul 7, 1999
    Grand Prairie, Tex.
    A minor nit...

    You meant Hillsborough disaster.
     
  13. eejit

    eejit Member

    Jun 10, 2004
    [​IMG]

    This looks good for MLS size stadia.
     
  14. piltdownman

    piltdownman Member

    Jun 24, 2005
    vancouver
    Might mention that its Matsumoto Stadium in Japan


    Its came up somewhere that kerfoot, the guy behind the Vancouver whitecaps, was impressed by the stadium in Reading.
    [​IMG]


    I don't know if the new stadium in vancouver will be based on this stadium. All is know as he liked that one. It doesn't really fit the 20k expandable to 30k that everyone is hearing though. As i'd imagine that would be done by first building just the sides, and then later doing the ends. While that stadium in reading looks like it would be better to do it all at one time.
     
  15. amancalledmikey

    Oct 27, 2003
    I have a bindle at this point...
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Not the soulless hole on the rubbish tip. Madejski's a bit up himself too.
     
  16. dfffd61

    dfffd61 New Member

    May 30, 2005
    Lubbock
    Do you think that one of those companies would tell me how much it would cost to fix up one of the stadiums I listed? I don't think they'd give a true analysis and estimate, but a ballpark figure would be pretty nice.
     
  17. dfffd61

    dfffd61 New Member

    May 30, 2005
    Lubbock
    "We were told it would cost in excess of $100 million to build a stadium seating 40,000. However, in late October 2004, friends of the university brought us information on newer, less expensive forms of construction that might allow us to build a stadium for considerably less than we had previously thought. This new construction, which uses more reinforced steel and less concrete, could be used to build a stadium seating 45,000 for approximately $40 million."

    stadium.ucf.edu
    http://stadium.ucf.edu/renderings.htm

    This place looks pretty nice. How much do you think a SSS seating 22k built in this manner would cost? I realize this does not include land acquisition or parking, but if there was a place that already had these things available (I'm looking at you San Jose and Santa Clara Fairgrounds).
     
  18. yure323

    yure323 New Member

    Jun 11, 2005
    Necropolis
    Looks cool
     
  19. Rocky J Squirrel

    Nov 24, 2003
    Brigham City, Utah
    The contruction method reminds me of Lavell Edwards Stadium at BYU in Provo Ut. The problem with steel framed bowls is that they must be unihabited under the seating and un-enclosed. BYU uses the unihabited space to store unprocessed fossil dinasaur bones. Why? Because of steel's tendency to buckle under fire situations (in many situations wood beams would support a structure longer in a fire) even then spray on fire-retardents or concrete clading is needed. How would it survive in a hurricane?

    For six football games it may work. For a Soccer stadium with more games and additional useage it can not be the daily home of opperations (they must be housed, think$$, in some other structure(s). Concessions and circulation are severly curtailed in such a stadium. Even the restrooms must be at ground level with their own weather proof roof.

    A dirt pile (Bridgeview) or a hole in the ground (Frisco) is cheaper but also loses the under space. Steel in not cheep right either!
     
  20. The Cold Sea

    The Cold Sea Señor Mejor

    Feb 17, 2005
    The District
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--

    2. Crew Stadium was done on the cheap and looks like it. It looks like a glorified high school stadium. You spend five dollars on a stadium you get a Five Dollar Stadium.

    3. Go to a match in England and you'll see why everyone wants a roof over the grandstands. Not so much for the rain games, but for the noise. The atmosphere is incredible as the noise stays trapped in the stadium.
     
  21. aartef redded

    aartef redded Red Card

    Apr 25, 2005
    2. A Stadium doesnt make the atmosphere- the people too. Make fans crazier & you'll get better atmosphere.

    3. Why dont they just use Mics & turn up the volume for TV broadcasts?
     
  22. aartef redded

    aartef redded Red Card

    Apr 25, 2005
    You seem to forget that many MLS clubs are pulling in less than 10K fans a game. Stadiums are only a short term fix.
     
  23. The Cold Sea

    The Cold Sea Señor Mejor

    Feb 17, 2005
    The District
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    The D.C. city council is maddening. Byzantine is the best word to describe their operations. Look at the problems baseball had and still has with their package and stadium. Half of the city council doesn't even know DC United exists. I can't wait for this matter to come in front of Chairperson Linda Cropp. Cropp: "Soccer? is that the game they play with those sticks with nets on the end of them?" I would say that I have no hope at all for a stadium in the district. None. If Jack Kent Cooke couldn't get a new stadium built for the Redskins (the freakin' Redskins!!) then how are we going to get a deal with the city for land for a soccer stadium that in all likelihood we'll pay 100% for? The city won't spend a dime on the stadium and will want some kind of convoluted deal for the land and development. In the end, it will all fall through. They have a good deal with us at RFK. Why would they want to loose that? If our new owners are smart, and I think they are, they will explore the possibility of a stadium in Maryland or on a college campus, like UMD in College Park or Howard in the District.
     
  24. amancalledmikey

    Oct 27, 2003
    I have a bindle at this point...
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I may have said this before but for expandability, you can't look much further than the Valley, Charlton's ground. Their West stand was built with the foundations to support two tiers and a row of executive boxes. When people talk about expandablity, that is what they should be thinking of.
     
  25. sentinel

    sentinel New Member

    Aug 10, 2005
    See PAETEC PARK the Rochester Stadium.

    If I remember correctly an article in the Orlando paper said that the UCF pointy-ball stadium was being built by Dant Clanton the company that is doing the seating for the Rhinos stadium.

    Here is a post from the PAETEC PARK thread with a link to Dant Clanton:

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3951012&highlight=dant#post3951012
     

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