From the rest of the website, it sounds like its 10 million for the structure with nothing on the inside. A full 8,000 seat stadium is said to cost 13.5 million, so I would guess that a complete 24,000 seat stadium would be between 25 and 35 million. As nice as an indoor stadium would be a lot of the time, I still can't get over the turf thing.
There will never be another Crew Satium in MLS. Once the bar was raised by the HDC, nobody is going to want to do something that cheap. However, I think that modular stadiums would be great for some USL teams. I think we've come to a point in this country where no soccer team is going to be able to survive long-term without their own place. I've seen pictures of the PDL stadium in El Paso. It's pretty crude, the lights are on telephone poles, but at least it's their place and they can build from there.
Rochester's stadium could become a MLS venue, so never say never. I agree that the major market teams will have nicer. Plus, I am intrigued by the idea of doing a hybrid in Harrison to get the venue open by 2007. In Naperville, the Fire surrounded a single 5,000 seat permanent stand with another 10,000 of metal benches on the other 3 sides. Wasn't perfect, but it was very intimate. Maybe Harrison could race to get one stand and the field ready for 2007, and do the same thing.
I wish they would give up on Harrison, and try to think of a solution within the City. I'm sure there's some land in Queens or Brooklyn that could be bought if they decided to privately finance the thing. I still maintain that it could be done for around 30 million.
Add up the costs of the required infrastructure: Field; drainage and turf (either kind, petro or alive) about $1M, 10 acres land (20 to 40 really needed) $25M (SLC downtown) $5M suburban or brownfield, $1M+ Big screen scoreboard, $1+ for dressing rooms and office (10,000 square feet at $100 a square foot), Concessions, restrooms, concourses, sales areas and storage 20,000 sq ft at $100 sq ft. $2M.Lighting $1M. Parking, at $5,000 per car for total cost could easily blow $25M. Then there are the percent stuff: Architect 10%, permits 1 to 5% and sales tax 6%. The local goverment will spend $1M to $20 on road and access improvements and who will pay? Utilities including new, relocating and new can go $1M. Media facilites and connections so the parking lot isn't full of dish trucks and the end zones full of photographers up loading images via a cell phone $1M. FIFA wants seats! not bleachers! A furniture guy (who had sold arena seating) told me that it would be as cheap to put in upolstered easy chairs as the fan proof seats required for stadiums. Opps! there goes another $2 to 5M. Now the main part, the structure that holds the seats: The cheapest is to build in a hole and use dirt for the support. But there needs to be vehicle access to the field (Monster trucks, sod rigs, field care and ambulances) means big tunnels. It also means no use of the catacombs under the stands for any thing since there arn't any. The stadium height is limited to about 20 rows (about 20,000 seats) and all the infrastructure must be built independant of the stadium structure. Piled up dirt can work as long as it doesn't compact but implies the same constraints as a hole. Permanent use of "rental" type "event seating" may not go because of code requiements. Think of all the flammable trash you left at the last game, it must be removed, and have you tried to clean up under bleachers lately? Life safety/fire codes require under seating support to resist fire for a considerable time, forcing steel to be encased in concrete or fire insulated. This further stops the "bleacher stadium" from being a permanent solution. Building a stadium with a reinforced concrete superstructure with inside useage can be very practical if done right. You do the Math.
I think building a stadium on the cheap is short term thinking. The nicer the stadium the more likely people will want to go back and the more important the product feels to the consumer. If MLS wants to eventually become an elite league in the world they need to build more HDC's and less Crew stadiums. I think that is the way they are going.
Of course, better is better. But MLS also needs to get out of Giant Stadium/Arrowhead as fast as possible.
As far as Harrison is concerned, it really isnt an issue so much with what the stadium costs as it is a variety of outside groups who are against the project for their own interests of competition. I think even if AEG wanted to go it alone and pay for the whole thing they would be running into as many obstacles from NJSEA and local business owners. Its more a political solution there than a money solution.
I agree with you. My concept re: Harrison wasn't actually a cost saving solution. It was a "speed of opening" solution. The idea was if they miraculously received aproval in the fall for the project, could they open in 2007 by building one stand and the field, and then throw up temporary tinkertoy bleachers on 3 sides. The solution would be temporary. The goal would be to avoid playing 07/08 in Giant Stadium. And eventually complete the full permanent stadium while playing there. I've never heard of this for a new stadium, but this aproach is sometimes used in Europe for stadium renovations.
I think we all agree that the Metros need to get outta Giants. Its just a waste of money. I think they need to secure a site in or closer to the city. Put up 3 temps stands and construct one permanent stand with the skyboxes and press areas and every few years replace a temp stand with a permanent stand. Harrison is dead and the Metros need to give up that dream and move on. Who know how many suitable properties have slipped by them whilst they've been resting their hopes on a lost cause. With a small budget they could put up a Main stand similar to what is going up at Bridgeview and the remainder could be like Columbus. As they make money they could replace the temp stands. Some of the companies linked earlier in this thread have some really nice products, far nicer that was constructed in Columbus. A combination of temp and permanent stands might be the solution. But I think no move has been made because they are resting their hopes on something happening at Harrison. Its not! So Move on.
That's a really great idea. Build one side with sky boxes and everything, throw some bleachers in. It lends itself really well to a pricing structure too. Level I - sideline, seats Level II - sideline bleachers Level III - behind goal Level IV - corners Another bonus to bleachers is that people can spread out for tv when the game isn't quite sold out.
Anyone know of any land in NYC (probably Brooklyn or Queens),Boston, and Kansas City where these things could be built? They don't need to be in the city proper, just accesible by Public Transportation. The other cities that need stadiums have sites that would work pretty well. San Jose - Fairgrounds - already has parking - Santa Clara - Youth Soccer Park nearby Salt Lake - If they build the light rail station, then Fair Park sounds good to me. Free land and parking already in place. Chivas - still think that renovated titan is the way to go. Already a small press/luxury box. Build on the other side, and add in bleachers along the hill on the northside, new scoreboard on the southside. Already parking in place, for over 30,000 students. Have some shuttles from far away parking spots, and we're all set. -Build in one of the old parking lots for the Great Western forum and use/expand the current parking lot. D.C. Poplar Point seems to be their shot, although they could build in the RFK parking lot and then wait for RFK to be razed when the Nationals leave.
The Metro have a few options. -Corona Park/Flushing Meadows area: This is in queens, with the Mets building a new olympic stadium by 2009, there will be a lot more room available in the form of old parking lots to put a stadium. Theoretically, the Metros could put a stadium where Shea stadium will be demolished, but in reality they would most likely put the stadium where the current largest parking lot is. -Hofstra Stadium/ Mitchel Field: This is in Nassau County LI, Hofstra has a preexisting 15,000 seat bleacher stadium, but it would cost a lot of money to expand with limited space. Mitchel field home of the LI Rough Riders and former WUSA NY Power. The stadium has a capacity of 10,200 all bleacher seats. Were the Metro to use this facility, they would take out the track, have to build two new permanent stands and expand the facilities. They would also need to build a public track somewhere else. This is the most viable and cost effective option for the Metro. Harrison- Everyone knows the mess thats going on over there.
First of all...a cheap Harrison would be another BAD move by the Metrostars. Yes their lease sucks and Giants Stadium is another piece of crap in a state full of crap. Do Harrison right. It's going to be going against top Venues such as New Mets Stadium, New Yankee Stadium, Should be New Jets stadium and Brooklyn Project (lost the details on that one though). If you do it in a hurry it'll be great...for a year. Make Harrison the next Cathedral. And while we are dreaming http://www.stadiumguide.com/afonsohenriquesnew.htm
http://www.stadiumguide.com/alkmaarderhout.htm Ok, it's about 12,000 seats short, but it's louder than most American venues.
"First of all...a cheap Harrison would be another BAD move by the Metrostars" The way that they could cut costs would be to not put a facade on three sides of the stadium and to have more bleacher sections. The "finished" side would have a facade and press/luxury boxes. The rest would be bleachers with some having seats, and others not. The facades could be done as the money comes in. It won't be a cheap stadium, probably around $25-30 million, and it could be done in Corona Park right next to Shea. http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_your_park/vt_flushing_meadows/vt_flushing_meadows_park.html Look at the open spot to the southeast of the Shea. You have to have the churches before you can have the cathedrals.
The sides without brick would need sheet metal put on the back side to keep people from going under there. From what i've seen, these bleacher systems do not have any open space between seats and steps so fans can't drop items underneath the grandstands. This underneath space, if insulated, can be used for a variety of purposes, storage, concessions, maybe a team store. Build one side with brick, two sides with metal, scoreboard on the other side in front of a building with team offices on the second floor, and locker rooms on the bottom floor.
You know, I think this whole thing about cheaper stadiums should include the USL. I know that some college SSS (Morrison in Creighton and Hermann in SLU) that seat about 5,000 cost between $10-15 million. I'm pretty sure Blackbaud and Silverbacks Park cost was similar. Maybe if an expandable 5,000 seater with the necessary amenities can cost less than $10 million, the USL can really benefit. I believe that a strong USL is just as important as a strong MLS in the growth of soccer.
You are, of course, completely correct. One of the things I've always wanted to see was a system similar to Baseball with and affiliated minor league system. For example: MLS - FC Dallas USL I - San Antonio USL II - Ft. Worth PDL - Lubbock (Me being greedy) Other than possibly the First division, the rest could play in a normal park with some portable bleachers.
http://www.fpc.ttu.edu/default.cfm?sector=projects&page=detail&cat=future&project=365# My college is building this on campus. It's supposed to hold around 4,000 and costs 6.5 million dollars. Something similar holding 8,000 would probably cost around 10-12 million. This is what I meant when I said build one side very nice with a facade and everything, and put the rest up in bleachers. It's supposed to have three locker rooms and concessions.
Those are pretty simple pictures but it looks like it will be a great complex. It would be awesome if USL had a bunch owners or cities willing to give up $10 million for a SSS.
I was actually talking about a stadium for MLS. A USL I team would only need the 4,000 seat one and then some bleachers behind the goal to bring it up to around 6k.