The stats are interesting, yet as we all know only tell part of the story. It tells us who touches the ball the most, who gets in positions to get the ball, who players trust with the ball, who is expected to and connects the play, etc. You can also generally tell who plays where on the pitch. Some of the things that are harder to quantify: Who played a killer ball? Who was at fault for the turnover, the passer or the recipient? Where is the ball being turned over? Who plays the balls that result in shots? Who plays the final ball to the forwards? All interesting questions that would require a salary to answer. Back to what this does tell us. As I've said repeatedly, Hleb is most useful running from the center of the pitch. He was bought as a result of his performances in that position in Germany and for Belarus. Thus, its not shocking to see all that he creates as he drifts central or plays behind strikers. It's also not shocking that the players see this creativity in practice each day and use him and Cesc as our primary outlets. Think what one wants, but the numbers tell us that much. They might not say everything, but they surely tell us that the players know he is creative, trust him on the ball and that he gets in positions to support other players. In short, regardless of what the fans may yell on a particular day, the numbers give Hleb a glowing recommendation from his teammates. It's hard to discount such a glowing recommendation from those who matter most on the pitch.
I completely agree. FWIW, and of course IMHO, the problems last season were more about all our best strikers being injured, plus too many important defenders being out.
Agreed. Do we want to be the team that wins with inspired passing and movement, or do we want to be just another English team that "gets a cross in" from the touchline? Sorry, but I'm willing to wait through the growing pains if it means this team becomes the special team we know it can be.
I'd be interested to see the average number of touches a player takes before making a pass? I'd guess the lowest is Gilberto and the highest Adebayor, Rosicky and Hleb. The way we play, unless your bombing down the wing, more than 3 touches is often too many? The only player who wouldn't be covered by this is Hleb, who has the ability to make things happen by taking players on. I wish he would take less touches in the box (case in point the goal!) and I hope that he can maintain greater consistancy this term. He took along time to get going against Citeh, but, a good injury-free season for him could mean a good season for us? The stats don't show it, but I repeat my doubts about Rosicky. He nearly always cuts inside, is slow to get the ball into the channel, when Clichy is making an overlap, and looks totally unconvincing when he takes players on. Cesc is still not fully match fit. He was fading against Citeh, but Kudos for digging deep enough to find the goal. The two stats that I'm most concerned about is 3 CB's + injuries =?Cb's and Chances made/Goals scored x 100 = ?%. The closer the first is to 3 and the second is to 25 the happier I'll be. Come on you Gunners!!!
So Val, Do you have Hleb's #'s for any other matches, especially from last season? I admit he drove me a bit crazy last year w/ turnovers. What became indelible in my mind, was the image of him with the ball stuck to his foot, holding it too long when there was a teammate to pass to, and then getting his pocket picked. (Reyes also drove me nuts with this) Certainly Hleb has been a new man ever since pre-season this year, and it's a big plus for our results. But all of my judgements of Hleb last year vs. this year are qualitative and subjective. So I'm wondering if your quantitive analysis would echo this obvious (to me anyway) improvement in Alex between last year and this. p.s. I agree with a prior comment that a turnover should only be if you truly have possession in the first place, and then give it up. I think basketball is clear on this. Your Gilberto example of him heading clear a cross from the opposition, in my mind, is not a turnover. But however, you define the term, I'd be curious to see last year vs. this year comparison for AH.
Check the thread titled The Case for Alexsandr Hleb. I think I posted the results of two games, both big games, one vs Chelsea and one vs Man Utd. For those games I tracked total possession time, trying to find out who held the ball the longest. It was then that I started thinking that Hleb was the person who (1) put the ball in Cesc's feet, and (2) didn't turn the ball over nearly as much as he was receiving criticism for. If anyone has a copy of the Man City game, I'd love to go back and track who Denilson passed to. Or maybe I can dig that up with the Telgraph stats...
That won't do! You're a jerk!!! Great thread though and it is interesting to see the stats and different takes on them. As others have said, stats are only part of the picture and looking at how they team plays/reacts is key. Good work Val!!
As he should. Any attacking mid should be given the license to take chances and make mistakes. An attacking mid that just plays the ball back to safety everytime would be a disaster.
As Dave M would say "Attacking midfielder. It's all in the name, innit!" There have been some good points about the other players learning how Hleb brings the ball forward and delivers it. Once they get the gist of it, there will be more link ups and goal opportunities IMO. I think Hleb has made a dramatic improvement over last season. This is likely due to him and the team as a whole. There seemed to be some really good work done in preseason and it is starting to take hold and be effective on the pitch. Hope it continues.
As Cesc alluded to in the guardian article, I think the dramatic improvement is a function of Henry leaving and players being able to finally step forward and be more assertive without fear of the glare.
More stats i found here .. Code: Team Goals Shots On Target Shot Accuracy Succ Passes Arsenal 7 50 29 58% 1283 We top this table of shot accuracy .. Bloody impressive ..
Interesting page of stats. It should however quantify things slightly better and show the number of games played. Arsenal and Liverpool have only played 4 matches to everyone else's 5. One game less when teams have played 12 or so matches is not so significant but one game less now means some teams only have had 80% of the playing time of the other teams. Hence why no Liverpool or Arsenal player is in the top list for passers and tacklers. Also as the sample of matches increases the fixtures even themselves out in terms of away matches and difficulty of opponents. So the table becomes more indicative of trends as the number of matches increases.
Rosicky is SUPPOSED to cut inside. Seems pretty convincing to me when he makes a lateral cut at the top of the box to get an open shot or look for a player cutting in.
I've just noticed the Player Stats section on the Telegraph site. Worth a look if you want to compare player stats. You can look at stats for all games or just for a specific game. The SkySports stats are good for Club stats but the Telegraph ones are useful for specific player stats. http://telegraph.jumpmediagroup.com/PlayerStat.aspx?p1id=5127&p2id=3789
Wow !! Didn't even look at that .. I was looking at minutes on the pitch and passing accuracy stuff !! But they weigh the same ? Impossible ..
More stats, if anyone still interested, can be found here .. [just for the record, the stats above completely threw me off balance and i don't believe in numbers anymore] Code: Table 1.1 Who will be wearing the golden boot? Team Age Position Player Mins G G(90) Change Above average % Chelsea 29 F Didier Drogba 2583 20 0.71 Up 82 Arsenal 24 F Robin Van Persie 1408 11 0.70 Up 77.5 Man United 22 AM Cristiano Ronaldo 2619 16 0.54 Down 65 Tottenham 27 F Robbie Keane 1491 9 0.54 Down 69.5 Reading 24 F Kevin Doyle 2266 13 0.50 Up 66 Man United 29 F Louis Saha 1506 8 0.48 Up 65 Newcastle 32 F Mark Viduka 2077 11 0.48 Down 76.5 Liverpool 27 F Dirk Kuyt 2256 11 0.46 Up 52.5 Tottenham 23 F Darren Bent 2929 15 0.45 Up 55 Tottenham 25 F Jermain Defoe 1764 9 0.45 Down 67 Arsenal 23 F Emmanuel Adebayor 2526 12 0.44 Up 55 Liverpool 26 F Peter Crouch 1544 8 0.44 Down 63.5 Blackburn 30 F Benedict McCarthy 2507 12 0.44 Down 54 Man United 23 F Carlos Tevez 2018 9 0.42 Up 40 Man United 22 F Wayne Rooney 2595 11 0.39 Down 58 Newcastle 23 F Obafemi Martins 2709 12 0.39 Up 25 Reading 23 F Leroy Lita 2237 10 0.39 Up 34 Chelsea 22 F Salomon Kalou 2218 9 0.38 Up 37 Aston Villa 28 F John Carew 2394 10 0.38 Up 32 Tottenham 26 F Dimitar Berbatov 2636 11 0.37 Down 49.5
More stats: Code: Arsenal Team Arsenal 2006/07 Season 2007/08 5 Games Played 5 Goal Attempts 6 Goals 10 1.20 Ave Goals per game 2.00 75 Shots (excl blocked shots) 64 41% % Shots on Target 58% 8% % Goals to Shots 16% Passing 2,413 Short Passes 1,832 230 Long Passes 253 85% Overall Pass Completion % 80% Duels 575 Duels 533 51% Duels Won % 53% Defending 3 Goals Conceded 4 0.60 Ave goals conceded per game 0.80 132 Tackles 131 77% Tackles Won % 84% 144 Blocks, Clearances & Interceptions 341 Looking at our previous year and this season's passing and stuff, it appears we have becoem a bit more direct and defensively improved, not by much though .. Out short passes have decreased considerably, the shots on target % has increased considerably, the block, clearances has increased by an impressive number and we're winning more tackles.. Only our pass completion % has decreased, which i am quite surprised by ..
Thanks for posting that RMG... very interesting. I have noticed the more direct, long-ball stuff, especially to Adebayor. That's a new weapon in their arsenal which I always missed a bit in the past. I also wonder where Setanta got their data, i.e. last year vs. this year, through 5 games. Does anyone know a website that has stuff like this? I made another post in the EPL forum looking for a website that would show historical league tables, week by week. So you could compare prior years standings/points/stats to this year... up through 5 weeks, for example. Didn't get any responses to that post, so I figured maybe I'd ask it again here.