Fair enough, xdanx, we'll never agree on the above. Yossarian, I feel that we have many supporters who will criticise Cygan no matter how he plays. I've watched the game in full twice. Cygan had his best game in an Arsenal shirt in a long time. People seem to forget that we were away from home, with an atrocious away record. After they had nervously approached the opening 15 mins, Arsenal settled well to rack up 60% possession...more than Chelsea had at home v Fulham!
But isn't a claim that "Cygan had his best game in an arsenal shirt in a long time" really irrelevant? Many would argue so what? At best he's playing the role of the central defender on the left side without making any contributions to the attack down the left flank.
Fair enough....however, if you've seen enough of my posts here you'll come to find I don't have any favorites or consistent whipping boys.....I call it how I see it and IMHO, Cygan was not good at all yesterday. You cannot give the ball away (under no pressure) in your own third....you just cannot.....and Cygan did that numerous times during the match. A better offensive team would've punished us for it. United WILL punish us for it if he plays similarly, not to mention what Ronaldo is going to do to Cygan. Think of last year's FA final. SAF had Ronaldo go at Lauren because Ashley does quite well against him....and Lauren (who I think is a pretty decent defender) had his hands full all afternoon. Do you think Cygan is going to fare better?
I think this is true, the problem is that Cygan is somewhat of a running joke. Expectations in the past were too high for him, at Arsenal he should never be a regular starter, only a filler when a defender's out with injury or needs a rest, but because of his more prominent role in the past, he's judged a lot harsher. And again, because he's basically a regular punchline, fans are just used to criticizing him (not to say he doesn't usually deserve it)...
When Cygan fills in at CB....I'm not nearly as harsh on him because as Rick and others have said...."what do you expect for a 4th choice CB." I agree with that sentiment and think he has had some decent matches at CB and isn't always out of his depth there. Cygan playing LB is a different story entirely. He doesn't have the pace to deal with most of his opponents which causes our other defenders to lose their shape. On offense he's a nullity.....which causes our midfield to have to work harder and the opponent's midfield to work less.
surely he wont be playing against a winger with the speed of a cristy ronaldo.. if he is in the lineup versus manyoo.. wenger needs his head examined. although wenger is so stubborn that for some reason he thinks cygan is the right man for the job. id almost rather us go to: Lauren-Campbell-Toure --Gilberto----Flamini----- something like that.
Have to agree with Yoss on this. I think he's a decent #4 CB and you can't really expect better that far down the order and I've often defended him when he gets everything heaped on him. He's also provided an anchor and experience for the youngsters in the Carling and generally helped them progress, but, LB is not good for him. I don't think he's comfortable there and definitely lacks the pace. His passing is usually okay, but the # intercepted yesterday was atrocious. ???? He might've have been less exposed if Cesc, had played deeper, to support him, and been an outlet for him to lay the ball off to? He He He!
I think that Cesc has been great and very consistent this season. I make an effort to see how rarely he gives the ball away, and I've noticed he gives it away alot less than any1 else. He manages to turn opponents or get a free kick at least. Cesc is doing the majority of the work in central midfield. Gilberto is playing like utter crap.....he gives away the ball too often, fouls too often, etc. He is a player with little creativity, and is in the team to break down attacks. He isn't doing that, and is therefore almost doing nothing. He has lost it since his injury...he needs to improve, and we all know he can. I am pleased with JAR's performance. He didn't do what all of my friends mock him for...run, dribble, run, tackled! I'm just glad with 3 points for Christmas!
Wenger will not play Cygan v Ronaldo. Injury or no injury, he was never playing against Chelsea either. No one is saying that Pascal is comfortable here. But unfortunately, he is needed as a stop gap, and I believe he is doing a fair job in the circumstances, a form of horses for courses. The biggest howler in recent weeks has been Lauren's dancing v Chelsea and a couple of very hairy Toure moments, rem Robben.(Toure also seems to head the ball directly up instead of away). The thing with Cygan is that people just don't trust him....even when he puts in a fine performance. You could even hear the groans when he stepped up to take a penalty v Doncaster.
I hope you're right. Gilberto's howler against Bolton was just as bad....maybe even worse than Lauren's against Chelsea. And did you not notice Cygan nearly make the same mistake late in the match against Charlton? He held on to a ball far too long and was nearly caught in possession deep in our own third. He was lucky when he tried to clear it that it went off the Charlton player that had closed him down and went out for an Arsenal throw. And why should they at left back.....where I have yet to see him have a "fine performance."
This is going to really stick in my craw, because I've never been in his camp, but, I think our most consistant player, and therefore, as things stand, our best player is Lehmann! Gawd that was hard to type!! There's a huge lack of consistancy running through the team, and while he still scares me on clearances, he's been the only guy who's been showing the kind of steel that we need? I totally disagree with the assertion that Cesc is one of our best players at present! If that were true we'd only have a minor problem in CM? Yes, Gilberto is way off at the moment, but, our CM problems are not just down to him! Cesc may do the things that he's good at very well, but, my problem with him is in the things he's not doing; and those are the key things that the team are currently losing the battle at?
lmao...how times have changed. that was an awful match to see. Arsenal's incapability to force anything amazes me. The way the goal was made says it all. Henry' apathy on the field is starting to annoy me. Yeah, we know you are worldclass m8...but your team needs you. Arsenal should be happy if they reach UEFA cup football
Not that my point about Cygan needs reinforcing but......from arseblog today...... "Saw yesterday's game against Charlton. I don't really have time to comment on the performance but it was a welcome three points, great to see José score and how festive of Pascal Cygan to try and gift the game to Charlton at every occassion."
And did you not notice Cygan nearly make the same mistake late in the match against Charlton? He held on to a ball far too long and was nearly caught in possession deep in our own third. He was lucky when he tried to clear it that it went off the Charlton player that had closed him down and went out for an Arsenal throw Nearly...nearly...nearly...
If you think holding a ball too long in your own third to the point you get closed down is only a problem if it results in a goal.....well.....yikes.
If you watch that game again, you see countless times a wide range of players were closed down, mainly due to Charlton's admirable harrying tactics. As I've said before, if Cygan does that once then it's highlighted unfairly by those who listen to the lazy journos. And if you watch it again, you'll see (god forbid a positive comment re Cygan) Pascal was involved in the neat one-two with Reyes than initiated the Ljungberg chance in the first half, and was also involved in the move that resulted in the Reyes goal. In that match, much of what was good about Arsenal originated on one side of the field.
Not in our own third, I didn't see it. "See" being the key word....as I don't care a lick about what journos, lazy or otherwise, write. So I gather you can't wait to see him start against United.
Now you're resorting to sarcasm as opposed to points. The point i'm making is that people will focus on one thing that "nearly" happened instead of the countless simple and efficient balls he played to Reyes/Henry/Gilberto/CF..... I've managed many underage teams who had players like Cygan. Gangly, apparently uneasy in possession and prone to lapses in concentration. However, every now and again they show their worth with a more solid performance. Cygan did that versus Charlton in a defence that leaked nothing and in fact gave Lehman an easy time. In the dream-world, Cygan wouldn't start. Unfortunately he has to at present...offering more experience than those 5th or 6th down the line. Finally, in the opening 20 mins, Campbell, Toure and Lauren, as well as Cygan were forced into conceding throw-ins due to pressure from the opposition. We'll not agree. I state my point that Cygan played his game the way Wenger wanted against Charlton and was involved in more good moves than in a long time.
And I have made the "point" several times that I was basing my assessment of his performance on many things (the give-aways under no pressure, etc.) and not solely the near loss of possession deep in our own third late in the match. It is you in the last few posts that has focused on this one issue. I also find it odd that you seem to want to chalk all this up to some bandwagon bashing of Cygan for its own sake, when the majority of posters have provided a similar assessment based on their own observations and not on the writings of "lazy journos" as you say. You are right, however, that we will not agree on this. And my sarcasm was an indicator of this as opposed to any sort of concession because of lack of "points." If you want to view Cygan's performance in a "glass half full" manner based on a clean sheet versus offensively inept opposition playing with 10 men for a significant portion of the 2nd half, that's fine. You'll pardon me if I'm not so inclined.
Well i do take issue with your flawed and, again, satirical final paragraph but sure we'd go around in circles. You'll be singing "There's only one Cygan" tonight anyway ( our joint-3rd top scorer!)
You've lost me. Unless you mean...... insanity laughs under pressure we're sinking (I've also seen "cracking" as the last word.)