Interesting match to watch....I hated seeing Arsenal not be able to take advantage of the number of scoring chances they had in both halves, but they were dominant in the second before Murphy was sent off (and even moreso afterwards). Kolo looked clueless a few times and all of the backs seemed like they were on their heels. A more powerful scoring team would've broken through. Reyes was spot-on today, though. He was helping create chances and was there when it counted. So nice to see a Premiership road win...haven't felt that in too long.
Not too many positives from this game, but the main one is the 3 points. Reyes had a good game, he did a good job winning the ball back, had good ball movement and overall seemed dangerous. Hleb seemed lost at times, a lot of poor passes, a few good ones, but it seemed that he wasn't on the same page as the rest of the team. Henry seems like he is trying too hard to set up everybody else, there were a couple of times he could have recieved the ball and turned into space for a shot, but he held onto it trying to find the pass. Cesc wasn't too bad, he didn't seem to lose the ball or give it away as much as his teamates. He also had at least one dangerous run where he was fouled just outside the box. Gilberto was horrible, he gave the ball away too many times either because he couldn't control a pass, or he passed the balll to the other team. He needs to settle down, it seems as if he is trying too hard to make it all happen and it is making him think too much. Freddie had an OK game, he had some great runs, but his miss still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I might be able to forgive him if it was an amazing save by the keeper but it was just a poor shot. That one on one takes him down to an OK instead of a good game. Cygan shouln't still be on this team, I was so excited over the summer when somebody was interested in buying him from us. There were numerous times when he woulf try to slow down the game by holding the ball looking for the right pass, which made me happy since he wasn't just lobbing it upfield, then bam he passes it straight to the other team. And I will also admit it should have been a penalty for his handball. The other defenders just seem out of sorts, it seems like they are sliding over to cover Cygan which is throwing them off. Sol has to cover a lot more and Toure is supposed to help cover Sol but they keep getting mixed up. I spent the better part of the first half trying to find out how long until Cole is back. Jens had a solid game, he didn't really have to make any spectacular saves, I don't think they put any on frame the whole game. In general a poor game overall but at least we are learning to win ugly as we have shown today and up in Doncaster, istead of just losing ugly as we have been doing the previous four games.
Spot on, and what I've been trying to say to certain people on this board who don't have any idea what "long-term" means.
I won't see the game until the wee hours (and the Pats are on so I'll probably miss the 1st half) so could someone please explain this?
Sorry, but, I think the 3 of you are talking total bollox! Certainly Gilberto has not been playing well but, Cesc is supposed to be a CM and, correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't that where everyone's saying our problems lie? He left Gilberto to do all the central work including distribution for much of the match, and that isn't GS's strength; he seems most comfortable in a supporting role(lack of support from Cesc is one of the reasons put forward for PV4's poor form in his final season?)? Cesc provides no physical presense and hasn't got the experience to boss the middle of the park, and that is what we're missing! We got away with a disorgainised and poor midfield today because Charlton are totally crap at the moment! With only 10 men against us, the midfield still generated few decent chances, until Pires got into the mix? Sorry gentlemen, but I don't think that running about alot constitutes a good performance? For my money Cesc needs to rediscover the basics. He needs to be chasing back and making solid tackles to support the back 4 and making himself available in the middle of the park as a conduit for distribution and link up play. Instead he seems to prefer to tuck himself in behind the forwards and let others do the real graft? In fairness to him that could be because, he's playing too many games and is knackered; Flamini's current form doesn't leave AW with too many choices?
We'll have to agree to disagree then because I certainly disagree with much of what you posted. It's true that Cesc does not have the physical presence to boss the middle of the park....but unless he hits a serious growth spurt....I don't think he ever will. I disagree with you however in that I think he does try to play defense...as is evidenced by his Scholes-like tackling at times. Where I really disagree with you even more is regarding his availability. I think he's constantly showing for the ball and also distributes it well.....not as well as Vieira in his prime....but he's only 18 and will only improve in that area, IMHO. The main problem as I see it is that he and Gilberto do not complement each other well enough. I seriously doubt that Cesc is ever going to be that destroyer/ball winner in the middle of the park. That's just not his game. Think Guardiola (his boyhood hero supposedly). But I think he does hold and distribute well.....therefore he needs to play side by side with a "destroyer/ball winner"......which unfortunately isn't Gilberto's game. Gilberto is what I call a monkey wrench player. He reads the game fairly well, gets in the passing lanes, breaks up passes, etc. He does not tackle very well and is not very good at distributing the ball when he gets....beyond the very simple pass. He worked very well with Vieira because Vieira did what Cesc does well AND was a ball winner. I mean lets face it, the only player that rivaled a Vieira in his prime as a true box to box midfielder was a certain Irishman we all loathe. Players like these don't come along very often. Therefore, in order for Cesc to really flourish and Arsenal to improve.....we need to pair him with a real destroyer....a Makelele or Essien type player. The alternative is to pair Gilberto with a Vieira-like player. Which option to do you think is more viable?
yep, agreed yoss.. not sure what marty is on bout... but i know what he means bout cesc roaming all over.. i saw him on the left, right, just behind the strikers, not tracking back so much.. but think bout it, we dont score goals anymore, he is trying to get forward and actually do that (much like paddy did for us). he isnt in there to be a "destroyer"~ cesc is captain material, something henry isnt.
Can't disagree with a lot of your assessment, but, I still think the lad is doing too much of his work too far up the pitch, which closes down the channels for other players, makes effective link ups harder and compresses the space for forwards to work in? If he's too far in front of the back 4 it makes it easier for the opposite midfield to close him down or intercept anything coming to him? While I've expressed doubts about Cesc as a starting CM, even admiting his amazing talent, I think what you say is fair, and it would be interesting to see him paired with an out and out ball winner; something we don't have, even in our "transitioning" youth??? Flamini can get stuck-in but it ain't him! For all his effort today, I don't think he was very effective. He often took the ball with his back to goal, but it's not really his game to turn and run at players, that's Hleb, Reyes, Pires and Freddie?. A lot of his passes went back in the same direction they came from. Even without a ball winner I think he still needs to playing deeper; to give more support to our suspect left flank, close down the space in the middle of the park and get passes out to the ball carriers, so that he can support attacks on the overlap? PS when I say 'Boss the Midfield" I don't mean physically, I mean by controlling the game through his distribution! He needs to be demanding the ball off the back 4 not trying to run onto long balls played upfield by Kolo and Sol. That completely closes down how we play football?
Bit of a scrappy game. 2 real good chances, but lucky saves. Now I understand why people slag Cygan, but in todays game, I think the whole team needs to go back to basics on passing the ball. Cygan is showing why Wenger still has him: to fill in and get the job down. I am almost tempted to get a Cygan jersey. cesc: Will no doubt improve if he stays injury free. gilberto: can we please sell him and get a real dmid destroyer?
I disagree with almost every point made here and wonder if we were watching the same game. In my opinion, the only sound point was Reyes. As for Henry, could you not see that he was playing in a withdrawn role with the sole aim of setting up JAR and FL? The reason he was 'holding' onto the ball was because he was doing his job. At last FL was making the runs we know he can. Henry was too pivotal as a lone striker in recent weeks. FL actually had a decent game as did all four midfield players. Gilberto did the simply things well. I actually thought CF was being found out for pace. I'd worry about that. I thought Cygan actually played fairly well and it was noticable the other players had alot of faith in him today, such was the amount of times he was on the ball. Didn't do much wrong. Sol Campbell had an immense game. For most of the first half he repelled every attack in a no-nonsense fashion and this attitude rubbed off on an improving Toure. I cannot see how today was 'winning ugly'. Arsenal finally got their passing game going to the extent that they seemed to be show-boating a little for the last 20 mins. There were also many passages of fine Arsenal football in the first half. All-in-all, a fine away performance from Arsenal.
Watching the match in a few hours (thanks for the updates Dan! ) Saying that we are having a tough year in the midfield is not new to anyone here but I think that without even watching the match that if Cesc was out of the middle of the field and on the wing it may have been to cover for Hleb at times.....Hleb is not a winger and he tends to play more in the center of the pitch than on the wing leaving his side exposed but this is pure conjecture on my part since I won't be watching the match for a couple of hours. I do find it a bit odd that almost eveyone that watched the match had differing thoughts. I'll let you know what I think tomorrow! It is nice to know that we won though and that maybe things are on an upswing now! Anyone see the Wigan v Man City match-crazy match!
Yes Henry was playing as withdrawn striker, but Reyes wasn't exactly playing up front, he seemed to be playing more as an attacking mid. How many times was the ball crossed into the box and there was NOBODY there. Time and time again that was the case. And playing as a supporting striker shouldn't mean that you give up shots on goal, even Hleb took the initiative to shoot when he saw that he needed to. And I did say that Freddy did have a good game, I was joking about his miss by saying that took him down to an OK game. And don't use the excuse that in the last 20 minutes they found their game because in the last 20 minutes we also happened to be up a man. We didn't really have a good first half. I guess we just have to agree to disagree since there is no way that I will say cygan had a good game, and I guess we just pay attention to different aspects of the game. I don't say this to be mean, some people watch off the ball movement, others watch how the defenders read the game, so it may be possible that we were watching different games.
It was, but we had to considering the options we ahve up top. I had a long drawn out response to the match written, but it would basically mirror yours and yossarians.
Again, much to disagree with. No one was making an excuse that Arsenal 'found their game' in the last 20 mins. Their best spell was actually 45-60 mins when they tore Charlton apart in terms of possession and made the goal inevitable. In the first half, an Henry pointed out, they started to find some fluency that had been missing lately. Henry did NOT give up on shots. He actually had 7 strikes at the target, 3 on, 2 off and 2 blocked. The closest to that was Reyes on three! He played his role wonderfully well, creating chances for FL, Reyes as well as setting up the goal. And finally again, Cygan (apart from the lucky handball) hardly put a foot wrong and it was noticeable that Toure and Campbell fed him the ball more often than Lauren.
Which is why I said that we must agree to disagree. But to carry on in your spirit...Henry may have had 7 strikes, but are those taking into account the 3 that were taken from free kicks. His setting up Reyes for the goal was not setting up Reyes, but rather him taking a shot and having it blocked due to good defending. He did have some great passes that created good oportunities, but as the scoreline shows they were not converted. There was a period where they really did play well and looked dangerous, but don't confuse that for the entire game being well played. You still have said nothing about the amount of bad passes that were made or the amount of times we gave up the ball early in the game due to being pressured. I am done with this thread.
This is more credit than Arsene gave the boys in his interview with Sky after the game, and just about echoed my half time sentiments, about forcing the pace, word for word?
Or a 4-3-3 at times? I have no problem with 4-5-1 as long as the wingers get forward at the right times. Other than that...all I have to add in my post-Yule fog is.... THREE POINTS! Sweet, blessed, coveted, beautiful THREE POINTS!
Finally back online. It being a BAD Tuesday morning, I'm no going through all 56 pages of this thread, so I apologize if this has already beeen noted. Just some quick thoughts. Watching on FSC - Henry, Man of the Match? This made no sense to me, and to be honest, not surte who it should have gone to, but certainly not him. -Funny commentary when Cygan and Lehman played it around a defender and out of the back, they said all fans should cringe with anxiety. - Lehman had nothign to do for 93 minutes, then in the final seconds makes an amazing clearance on a cross - the quality of a very good gk. Christmas is over, my head hurts, and my liver gave up on me Saturday night.
Accckk.....he hardly put a foot right. If you have it recorded or can watch the match again, do so. You'll see he gives the ball away needlessly...under little to no pressure....no less than 4 times in the opening 15 minutes. His handball probably should've been called a penalty and his marking and positioning were just mediocre the rest of the match. As I mentioned in the earlier post, he had one very good play where he stepped in to intercept some nice combination play Charlton was beginning to work into our third. Other than that he was not good.....and was lucky that Charlton didn't have a pacy winger bent (no pun intended) on exposing him all match. I shudder at the thought of Ronaldo running at him next week.