Changing Landscapes - Chicagoland

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by VolklP19, Dec 28, 2016.

  1. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    This is true but if a club cares about retention then it does not take much to keep those players.
     
  2. DadYoureSuchADork

    Manchester City
    United States
    May 1, 2020
    You mean keep them on the second team?
     
  3. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Yes - if the second team is placed in a meaningful league and playing games where they can grow and that kid can further develop to have a shot back on the top team, then for sure.

    That said I am not blind that some parents think to highly of their player(s) and will bolt. And that most clubs do not have enough "human" coaches who can reach out, discuss and manage these situations well.
     
    RandomSoccerFan repped this.
  4. RandomSoccerFan

    United States
    Sep 11, 2022
    I appreciate that point of view, but from what I've seen it's actually more generous than many other similar examples in soccer and other youth sports. If the team has aspirations to be the best in area, best in state, or higher - while there are many goals, the first goal is to make sure the most talented athletes reasonably available to them are on the roster. Everything else is dependent on that first goal being met. Open tryouts are identify anyone who can be determined to be stronger than any current player (accounting for possible position/etc.), and if that's the case - the stronger player should be offered the spot. Every spot is risk. If that's true for 3 players, great, If it's true for 8 players, great. Hypothetically, if open tryouts has 22 new girls that show up, and the club determines that these are the best 22 players available, and they are all willing and eligible to sign - the club now has a brand-new top team and everyone else is offered 2nd team. Galaxy guaranteeing the spots for even 12 existing players seems unnecessary.

    With soccer doing this only once a year and requiring contracts, it slows down team movement, and the likelihood of more than few players moving each year from time to time is pretty low. My youngest plays on a basketball team with similar aspirations, and tryouts for the entire team are 3 times/year, every four months. Huge portions of existing teams are swapped out much more frequently, and its common to go to a regional/state tournament and recognize the groups of kids that have moved around since the last time you saw them 2-3 months ago.
     
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  5. SoccerNet101

    SoccerNet101 Member

    Feb 9, 2022
    I respect your feelings on this but disagree. At some point travel soccer isn’t rec, if you want to compete you need to keep getting better. Both individuals and teams. You don’t get to pay your yearly dues for an endless 1st team placement. You get a year and you need to prove yourself and be better than the new boys/girls coming to tryouts. I actually feel this doesn’t happen enough.
     
  6. DadYoureSuchADork

    Manchester City
    United States
    May 1, 2020
    I agree. Kids who play at clubs like Eclipse, Soccers, and FCU on the top teams should have the expectation that if they don't perform, they may be moved to the second team. Even second-tier clubs like Libertyville and Evolution. It comes with the territory. However, I think these kids who have been on the top team at Galaxy or Inter and have been told they're all working toward the goal of being in one of these top leagues... They're being told they're part of something, and they're all working toward the same goal. Then they achieve that goal and everybody celebrates.. Then they're being told they're not good enough anymore because better players heard about this shiny new thing they just worked hard to get, so now you can't be part of it.

    Now, if the messaging was "We're working to get into this league, and then everyone can try out for the new top team" That would be easier to swallow. But, the clubs aren't selling it that way.
     
  7. RandomSoccerFan

    United States
    Sep 11, 2022
    You can't have it both ways. If you're involved with a club attempting to compete at the top level, the top team is going to be competitive. It needs to be, or it won't stay competitive indefinitely.
     
  8. NotCrazySoccerMom

    United States
    Mar 26, 2023
    That happened last year on my daughters current team- they gave early offers to about 8 kids and took all new players. That worked out well for my kid because she was one of the new kids and worked her way up to starter pretty quickly. However, I don’t think the team gelled very well socially at all tbh. I also don’t know what will happen this coming try out season.

    Her previous team seemed like they never cut anyone. In particular, there was a girl who was a bench player and got like 10 minutes a half. She was definitely not a favorite of the coaches or the other kids. I actually felt really bad for her. She made the team again!! Like why?? Her parents wisely declined the offer for better fit but stuff like that makes you wonder if it’s about $$$
     
  9. 142LbsHawks

    142LbsHawks New Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Apr 27, 2021
     
  10. bluechicago

    bluechicago Member

    Nov 2, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The one point you are all missing here is the club's culpability. At what point do you hold the club responsible for not developing the player. No spot should ever be guaranteed, but if the club at one point felt you fit on the top team, it is their responsibility to train the player to maintain that spot. There could always be a great new player that comes in, but to add multiple players in any year to a top team, especially in top competition, shows the club is not doing a good job (or just don't give a damn). If there are issues throughout the year, like effort, attendance, etc., then the player and family should be well aware before even getting to tryouts.
     
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  11. 142LbsHawks

    142LbsHawks New Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Apr 27, 2021
    There is a fine line between the business of club and the playing at a club. Your only job as an athlete is to get better. Better then anyone that the club brings in or make promises to. The more competition the better your kid will become. If your kid doesn’t start then it’s her job to get her starting position back. It’s healthy. Although the process sucks and can be a hit to an ego, in the long run it’s good. Good for that athlete’s parents that they recognize that their athlete was not improving and they moved on. Every club will make promises to bring kids in, that is the business side of club soccer. That is something you can not change. In girls club soccer there isn’t an infinite talent pool, stay the course, get better, and perform.
     
  12. RandomSoccerFan

    United States
    Sep 11, 2022
    I don't think that point is necessarily missed or misunderstood by any of the folks in the thread. Of course it's in the club's best interest to train their existing players the best they can to make them the strongest individual athletes on the strongest collective teams. Those players should have numerous advantages over anyone not with the club/team currently, including knowing what the coaching staff considers to be most important, the particular playing styles being emphasized, and unquestionable advantage of being a known quantity. Perhaps the best outcome of open tryouts is a validation that there aren't many (or any) candidates available that are expected to displace any existing player. But in the case of a player being identified that the coaches determine is likely to compete for playing time on the top team and displace existing players, either because of the candidate's existing skillset or their believed higher potential, it's imperative that the club/team ultimately chooses the best player.

    If year over year a club is churning through an excessive number of players on the top team, I think you're right - it's indicative of the club not emphasizing development over recruitment/marketing, or simply not being particularly good at development.
     
  13. jsScott

    jsScott New Member

    Sep 16, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I'm not denying that this is a tough scenario, and that feelings and egos are going to be hurt. But isn't learning how to respond to adversity one of the benefits of playing? These girls will have a wonderful opportunity to persevere and reach their goals in soccer. If they really love the game they will persist and have a good chance of succeeding.

    Here's a real example: some years back an FC United girls team won back-to-back State Cup championships at U12 and U13. The next year at U14 was the starting age for the then girls Development Academy (DA). There were many talented players who wanted to join this team from all over Chicagoland. Ultimately, 10 players were kept, and 8 players were cut in favor of new players. Of the 8 players who were cut, 5 will play college soccer. They didn't give up. Some stayed and played on the B-team. Some moved back up to the top team, and some didn't. And others changed clubs. The experience made them better and more resilient. Some of the players who were not cut chose not to play college soccer, or chose to play other college sports.

    Love of soccer, or any other activity for that matter, can grow or wane over time. Players develop at different rates. And, yes, sometimes coaches make mistakes when assessing long-term potential.

    For any player who may be cut from this Galaxy team, or any team, the question will be: What are you going to do now? It's a question they will face many more times in their lives. And the answer is always the same: There are many things to be done, but they all require you to push through some level of adversity.
     
  14. NotCrazySoccerMom

    United States
    Mar 26, 2023
    In a couple of the posts above, people made reference to ( and I paraphrase) " knowing if there is a problem during the season with effort, attendance, etc." , " knowing what coaching staff values, style of play, etc."

    Do people really get a lot of feedback from their club/ coaches throughout the year? I know at a certain age the kids are supposed to do all the communicating with the coach, know what is expected, etc. but I really wonder if that happens for every kid. That would be absolutely wonderful if a coach was saying to you throughout the year, " you need work on this, you are not getting play time because of this, your competing for your spot due to improvement needed on this" for example.

    I am curious if people get that kind of feedback throughout the season. In my experience it sometimes is communicated at the end of the season or after a kid did not make it.
     
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  15. RandomSoccerFan

    United States
    Sep 11, 2022
    Our club requires formal written feedback to/with each player once per season, but there is quite a bit more informal feedback throughout the season, at least with the coaches we've been involved with. To be fair, there probably is less feedback for standouts, or even starters, than there is for the kids that may be struggling a bit more. If things are going well - there's less formal/informal communication that seems necessary. If however someone is seeing little to no playtime for whatever reason, the coach can't sit on that for weeks or months - it needs to be addressed more promptly with the player, and at least with the younger ages, the parents as well. It doesn't do anyone any good for there to be surprises during events about why a kid isn't playing nearly as much as they (or their parents) would have expected or wanted; it's even worse if it's a surprise at the end of the season, or even at the beginning of a new season if a kid is dropped from the team.

    If the communication is open, the outcomes may be unexpected, even if it looked like it would be a challenging communication. On one of our younger and lower level (much less competitive) teams, there is a player who at least at this point in time, is all the way on the left side of the talent bell curve. Has trouble keeping up in practice, looks lost in scrimmages, is ineffective at any position on the field. It's not debatable, it's obvious to all concerned. Ongoing discussions with his parents are held about his progress, and transparent guidance that he would likely never see much play time with this team is the gist of those discussions. His formal feedback is always at the lowest possible rating available for most categories. This is the lowest level team for the club at that age group, there is no lower tier to move to. Unlike how most of these discussions go, the parents are completely accepting of the feedback, and are in no way confrontational when the coach shares his thoughts. But their continued feedback to the coach (and their child), is that they just want the player involved with the team, as it will be good for him socially/developmentally/etc., even if he sees a minute a game in garbage time. With the available size of the roster on that team, he's not taking a spot from any other hypothetical player that wants to be the 16th on that lower team. So he's been on that team for 3 seasons now, seeing an average of a minute or two per game, and not being put in at all if the game outcome is in question - and everyone seems happy with the arrangement. Last weekend that team had an 8-1 blowout, so he was able to see 20+ minutes. I don't know if I'd make the same decisions if it were my kid, but I certainly wouldn't want to second-guess theirs.
     
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  16. bluechicago

    bluechicago Member

    Nov 2, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If my coaches cannot show me that they have had multiple conversations, they are not allowed to drop/replace a player. We are not a big shot by any means, so customer service matters, but still, do your job.
     
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  17. WI Soccer Dad

    WI Soccer Dad Member

    May 2, 2022
    At my daughter's club, and for her team specifically, our coach has written a couple emails and sent it to parents. One was a handful of games in saying this and this and that looked good and this is what he'd like to see going forward. The second one was more of the same with a little more expectations mixed in. We did get a third, basically reminding parents not to be assholes (paraphrasing).

    At the end of the season, for the past two seasons, and I'll do it again this year. I speak to the coach in person and ask him how the season went for her, and what he thinks she needs to work on over the summer.
     
  18. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Yeah this is what I saw at Sockers for the 04, 05 & 06 groups but there are 2 parts to this. There is the culpability which I completely agree with you - lack of good training. Then there is just the organic move of top players from established clubs (best of the rest) during the high school years to these super-clubs because those top players want to have that college exposure.
     
  19. NotCrazySoccerMom

    United States
    Mar 26, 2023
    Thoughts on “GA rising “ pilot program for mid America conference? What is it?
     
  20. RealChicago

    RealChicago Member

    Real Madrid
    United States
    May 21, 2018
    More leagues to water other shit down.
     
  21. illinisoccer

    illinisoccer Member

    Aug 15, 2005
    Chicago, IL
    I believe it is a platform for 2nd teams at the clubs but could be wrong.
     
  22. TinyClub

    TinyClub Member

    Jul 11, 2019
    It's a pilot program in the Mid-America leage comparable to ECRL. Note they call it the Girls Academy Rising League (GARL).

    So, it is intended to be an equivalent of the RL since many of the teams that will be putting their second or third teams in it are currently in the US Youth system / National League and as ECRL has depleted that platform, GA has obviously seen a need to create a place for their second teams to play.

    Of course, playing "in" or "at" the GA Winter Showcase likely means there will be way more coaches on the premises than at the US youth events. Whether they go to watch the RL teams will be another story.
     
  23. illinisoccer

    illinisoccer Member

    Aug 15, 2005
    Chicago, IL
    Didn’t work out for him. Heard girls from that team joined Inter.
     
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  24. illinisoccer

    illinisoccer Member

    Aug 15, 2005
    Chicago, IL
    Big news from the Sockers GA. They are going 7 months to allow girls to play high school in the spring.
     
  25. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Hilarious!

    Wonder if the former coach who posted here had a fit - always telling everyone that the biggest problem in youth soccer is not playing club year-round.
     

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