Chances of a MLS team in South Florida?

Discussion in 'Inter Miami CF' started by stinky, Apr 12, 2012.

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  1. Prime Time

    Prime Time Member

    May 1, 2004
    South Florida
    As is the case with NY2, that is reason enough for MLS to want to put it down there. History may not be on its side and it will be harder to do than if based elsewhere, but the BIG potential is what MLS desires to tap into.

    Also, Don 'effing' Garber, HIMSELF, has repeatedly referred to the market as MIAMI, sometimes South Florida, and NEVER Ft. Lauderdale.
     
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  2. drSoFlaFan

    drSoFlaFan DEFEND THE FORT!

    Feb 25, 2008
    Plantation, FL
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He can say that all he wants. But unless he wants to take a trip back to 1996 with paltry crowds in a cavernous NFL stadium, with a team managed by an NFL ownership, there likely will never be a team in Miami.

    That is unless someone comes in and wants to build a new stadium on 100% private funds. And even in that unlikely scenario, unless it's in the parking lot of JRS there is nowhere to do it that makes sense for any fans - in Dade or Broward.

    If the Strikers can get their stadium situation sorted out, which they are actively trying to do, it makes the whole thing moot. Their plans are either to fully upgrade Lockhart or build a new SSS. In either case it would be something that would be easily convertible to an MLS size/quality venue(Lockhart already is the right size but who knows what renovation plans would entail).

    If that happens MLS would be out of their minds to go anywhere else, beyond the already massive pile of evidence pointing towards Broward County as the best location for a team.

    And there is no way they would call the team "Miami" again in that instance. They sure as hell wouldn't keep the name DC United if that team moves to Baltimore. It doesn't make any sense here either. It's the same distances between the two sets of cities we're dealing with. And a much larger cultural difference.
     
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  3. drSoFlaFan

    drSoFlaFan DEFEND THE FORT!

    Feb 25, 2008
    Plantation, FL
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The problem is that MLS will never be able to produce the "soccer equivalent of the Heat" - at least not in our lifetimes.

    The Heat thrive because the very best player(s) in the WORLD are on that team and they are winning consistently. 50,000+ people have come to JRS to see teams like Barça and Chelsea play(in one-off games mind you) because those are the best players and teams in the world.

    That so-called potential is a branch they'll never reach. An aging star will work for a couple of games and then the gimmick wears off(see the 11,000 fans the other night at RBA to see Henry score a hell of a goal for NY). What incentive to the Latin fans have to support a local retirement home team when they already follow teams like Boca, Santos, River, Chivas etc. and can more easily then ever follow their teams from back home?

    Unless Real Madrid starts playing La Liga home games down here, "potential" is nothing but fools gold.
     
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  4. Smoke & Mirrors

    Jul 18, 2010
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    We can probably stop wasting our time on this thread DR. Prime Time sounds like one of those Dade "soccer fans" who thumbs his nose at anything that isn't branded Miami. And the other guy, the guy who lives in Des Moines and says we don't understand his market, is trying to tell us about ours. South Florida is a unique animal when it comes to sports, and especially soccer. Let's just hope Tim is making progress either on a long term deal for Lockhart (my 1st choice! :D) or getting a spot either in Sawgrass, or downtown Ft. Lauderdale (in that order) for a new SSS. As you said, the Strikers have it within their power to make any talk of pro soccer in all of South Florida outside of them, moot. Gotta get this done very soon.
     
  5. aetraxx7

    aetraxx7 Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    Club:
    Des Moines Menace
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I never even suggested that you don't understand your market. I said you don't seem to understand how pro sports leagues and media contracts align in the modern era. The entirety of that conversation was born from a post (not by me) that the (hypothetical) MLS team - whether in Ft Lauderdale, Miami proper, or somewhere else in the region - would most likely be named Miami, which a couple of the Striker diehards shot down
    I agree 100% that based on the evidence at hand, at the lower levels, Ft Lauderdale has proven itself to be superior to Miami. There is no question on that issue; I never said otherwise. Hell, Miami's attendance at their current major league sports, relative to their leagues, is ********ing pathetic. I don't disagree that a team in whatever the hell the Dolphins' stadium is named this year (seriously, how many name changes has that joint had since 2000?!) would be an abysmal failure, based on what the NASL/USL teams have shown. Again, I agree 100% with your opinion on where the team would perform the best, in terms of attendance.
    My whole point of contention is how the team is presented during media negotiations. Like it or not, as I said before, Miami or Florida are sexier brand names and do carry more cache in those negotiations. They are mainstream brands, whereas Ft Lauderdale is not. It's about perception; Miami is huge, Florida is bigger, and Ft Lauderdale is some place to go on Spring Break. The league is using the brand name of the market to sell the team to broadcasters. Again, this is not based on facts, statistics, or the experience of anyone living in those markets, it is based on how outsiders - particularly media executives and to a lesser extent non-Floridian "civilians" - view the market(s). This is the world we live, regardless of where the team is actually located.
    The only glaring exceptions to this practice that spring to mind are the Anaheim Ducks and New Jersey Devils.
    Trust me, I understand your pain and frustration; people think I work in a ********ing cornfield. But your homer mentality is clouding your ability to understand the points we are making. I've read many things you've posted over the years and feel that you are an intelligent person. Take a step back, look at how things work at the major league level in the current era in every market - not just yours - and maybe you will understand my point instead of making false accusations/putting words into my mouth.
     
  6. RalphsMom

    RalphsMom Member

    Feb 26, 2011
    Plantation, FL
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Um, I'd just like to add that when Don Garber himself came to South Florida for the MLS combine, he met with the "MLS Miami Bid" crew (which included fans, press, and then Miami FC prez Aaron Davidson) to talk about the future of the MLS in South Florida. That meeting was in Fort Lauderdale. He mentioned three key ingredients that are required for a MLS expansion team.

    Number one was quality financial backing and ownership, which the Strikers have somewhat in Traffic Sports (Though they say they are not interested in MLS) and otherwise does not exist yet in SoFla. MLS is not just handing out teams to anyone with a checkbook anymore. Thats why there are these $40 - $100 million dollar expansion fee rumors.

    Number two was a solid soccer specific stadium plan. Which, in my personal opinion, will never exist with public funding anywhere in the state of Florida for a very long time. And with land very hard to come by in South Florida (Especially in M-D, with the exception of way out west), I see more and more hurdles for a Miami franchise. On the other hand, we have The Fort Lauderdale Strikers and Traffic Sports announcing that they are seeking to build a privately funded permanent home with a expandable 8-10k capacity. With rumored sites being the Existing Lockhart Stadium (Reno. or new), downtown FTL, or Sunrise (Which is a SUBURB of FTL) next to the BB&T Center.

    Third on his list was strong fan support. Which (for the 1000th time it seems) does not really exist in Miami Dade for some reason. I recently inquired about season ticket sales to the Miami Dolphins sales department, and while they wouldn't give me the numbers that I asked for they did tell me that a majority of their season ticket holders live North of the Dade/Broward line. Which is now evident with all the WPBers coming out of the wood work to comment their approval of the Dolphins being "open minded" when it comes to moving North to WPB. He also added, "The best thing you guys can do as fans is, and I'm sure Aaron will appreciate this (With a nod to Aaron Davidson), is support your local club at Lockhart Stadium." I would say at least half of that room went home and did the exact opposite. They sat on their couches and whined about how sexy Miami doesn't have an MLS team and deserves one now.

    With all that said, there is really only one choice for a potential investor. As long as he is intelligent enough to not fall for the sexy South Beach garbage, and that's the Strikers.
     
  7. RalphsMom

    RalphsMom Member

    Feb 26, 2011
    Plantation, FL
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would also like to add that yes, the name and brand "Miami" will lead to advertising and television benefits, but the name and brand "Miami" does not put asses in seats. People don't come to Miami for sports. They come to Miami for sexy South Beach, for partying, for living the high life. If a soccer game or a basketball game happens to be the "thing to do" at the time then yeah they might go, in their button down, popped collar, pastel colored shirt. I work in Miami every day, and I'd say 75% of Miami is NOT sexy, It's NOT marketable, and it's just NOT attractive at all. The whole world is under this illusion that Miami is this tropical paradise where everyone has martini's and drives Ferrari's. Well, it's not. South Beach is like that. Coral Gables is like that. Brickell is like that. That's it, theres no more sexy. The rest of Miami is just middle of the road neighborhoods or brightly colored ghetto-ish places like in Brasil. The benefits for a franchise in having that name are minuscule in comparison to actual market research and community outreach. MLS wants successful franchises, not shitty franchises with successful names...
     
  8. Prime Time

    Prime Time Member

    May 1, 2004
    South Florida
    20 bucks says that SSS that the Strikers are "looking" into never sees the light of day. All PR to draw interest.
     
  9. Prime Time

    Prime Time Member

    May 1, 2004
    South Florida
    I've already told you guys, I live closer to Ft. Lauderdale (15 mins north of it, actually) and have for the majority of my life. I've been to Strikers games and enjoyed it (2011 final, anyone?) and would absolutely love if MLS came to Broward instead of Miami (easier commute with less traffic).

    But, AGAIN, a team in Ft. Lauderdale will NOT be joining MLS. No matter how much you want it to or how cool I think it would be to see the Strikers join the league. It will NOT happen. MLS has a hard-on for the marquee markets. That's why Garber constantly says MIAMI. You can point to all the history you want, but MLS isn't interested in that (There's a reason why they're not begging the Cosmos to join). They're interested in writing their own history. You arguing that with your numbers and facts is nothing but you being in denial.

    I can look at things and (even though I don't necessarily agree with them) can say this is what the situation is without being partial to the Strikers. You guys apparently cannot.
     
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  10. RalphsMom

    RalphsMom Member

    Feb 26, 2011
    Plantation, FL
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Yeah man I can't believe they let Portland and Seattle in... Or Montreal. "Lets put three more teams in NY, and two more in LA. Oh, and lets add two in Miami. Then we'll also add another Chicago team. Screw all the other 10 million cites in America. We want BIG NAMES and we as MLS will settle for nothing less."

    That my friend is retarded. They do not care about wether it's a marquee market or not. I have heard Garber and Courtemanch say countless times that they want "successful markets" and the reason they want NY2 is that they believe it will be successful and build a rivalry with RBNY. This is the same reason they are not in any kind of rush to expand past 20. They want solid successful franchises, not necessarily "marquee markets". Half of MLS is not marquee markets. There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON why a Fort Lauderdale based MLS team would not be seriously considered if the right pieces were in place.

    ...And as far as the Strikers SSS goes, myself and some others had a wonderful chat with the Strikers president Tom Mulroy after our win tonight, and from the sounds of it we might be hearing some news regarding that sooner rather than later.
     
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  11. RalphsMom

    RalphsMom Member

    Feb 26, 2011
    Plantation, FL
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, with the MLS combine being IN FORT LAUDERDALE every year, how nice would it be for MLS to have a franchise here with a nice training facility to use free of charge? ;)
     
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  12. RedRover

    RedRover BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 15, 2007
    I digs the Fort Lauderdale Strikers. Miami? Not so much.
     
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  13. Prime Time

    Prime Time Member

    May 1, 2004
    South Florida
    Seriously, enough is enough. You Strikers die-hards are SO BLINDED by your passion for the club that you can't see straight. You're like the kid in high school getting cheated on by his sweetheart only to deny it while everyone else sees what the deal is.

    MLS is in no rush to expand beyond 20? Guarantee Orlando gets in if they sort out their stadium deal soon, which would put MLS at 21 if NYC gets in as well. They'll be in the 20-24 range before this decade is over and Garber has said so himself.

    And as for you saying you MLS doesn't care about marquee markets? You're DEAD WRONG. Garber references MIAMI almost EVERY SINGLE TIME when talking about South Florida expansion. NEVER does he say Ft. Lauderdale. You can throw all the historic numbers and this and that but that still doesn't change the FACT that Garber (it's not just him making decisions, he's just the main messenger) and MLS want Miami if they ever come back.

    http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/11/26/garber-future-expansion-south-requires-new-stadiums


    http://www.mlssoccer.com/blog/rumor...garber-pushing-miami-expansion-dolphins-owner

    http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...r-gives-expansion-update-impromptu-twitter-qa

    Go ahead. Argue that.
     
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  14. nick p

    nick p Member+

    Jul 11, 2009
    Baltimore Maryland
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rise up Miami Let it be known how much you want to see Major League Soccer (MLS) in Miami
     
  15. RalphsMom

    RalphsMom Member

    Feb 26, 2011
    Plantation, FL
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's because Miami is the sexy name like you've said. When the rest of the country thinks about South Florida they think of Miami and South Beach. I can't argue that.

    ...But what I can argue is that if the Strikers stepped up with a expandable stadium built and showed interest in MLS, that there would be NO CHANCE that MLS would look past them and start from scratch in Miami. It would just be a bad business decision on their part.

    I'm a Strikers die hard and I know that my opinions are a bit biased, but if I blank my mind and think as a possible investor, I still come up with the same outcome for MLS expansion in South Florida. I go where the fan support is. I go where a potential stadium could be built. I go where the alienated baseball and football fans are. I go where there are less competing activities for potential fans. Why would anyone start from scratch in a place that has rejected soccer for 40 years and where they will have a tremendously hard time building a stadium? It just doesn't make sense.

    Orlando would have to go in as a pair with another franchise. So thats at least another 4-5 years. And thats IF they get a stadium built.
     
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  16. RalphsMom

    RalphsMom Member

    Feb 26, 2011
    Plantation, FL
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, I don't know if any of you are aware of this, but there are many things that factor in to stadium location before a stadium project breaks ground.

    Possible locations as far as land available and cost of that land.
    Local population in the area surrounding potential locations.
    Local ethnicity in the area surrounding potential locations.
    Local age groups in the area surrounding potential locations.
    Local income of the population surrounding potential locations.
    Local government support for travel and tourism income opportunities.
    Local government support for a potential stadium, financially or otherwise.
    Entertainment value of surrounding properties and businesses.
    Ease of transportation to and from potential locations.
    Local TV market ratings for the sport in question.
    Also a large amount of market research is done regarding local interest and public opinions and such.

    Once all of this research is done, they will weigh their options and choose the location best suited for the franchise. I hate to say it but most of these topics seem to lean towards north of the M-D/Broward line.
     
  17. koolvid

    koolvid Member+

    Jun 11, 2011
    USA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Inb4 Ronaldinho get's crazy contract to take his talents to south beach.
     
  18. Prime Time

    Prime Time Member

    May 1, 2004
    South Florida
    You're wrong. There is a "chance" MLS would look past them just like they are looking past the New York Cosmos for MLS2 despite them trying to get their own stadium almost right next to where MLS wants a stadium. MLS kept the history in the Pacific NW with the Timbers and Sounders but it looks like it will end it there. They are ready to bypass Cosmos and all their history and the fan base they still have, have no intention of returning to Tampa Bay so Rowdies will remain there, and prefer Miami over Ft. Lauderdale, which leaves Strikers to fight it out in NASL just like they have said publicly that they want to.

    Because of the potential that's there. If done right (with some big-name DPs and a team that caters to the various ethnic backgrounds in the area), they know they could get 20K+. That is THEIR PLAN.

    That's 100 percent False. If Orlando City get their stadium stuff sorted out by the end of this month like they said they plan to, they will be on their away to playing in the league within another year or two. Their stadium doesn't get built unless MLS allows them in and MLS doesn't allow them in unless they get a stadium deal in place. Don't expect MLS to keep them waiting around for years, not with all the government backing it has and support from local politicians.
     
  19. RalphsMom

    RalphsMom Member

    Feb 26, 2011
    Plantation, FL
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS is bypassing the Cosmos because the Cosmos bypassed MLS and there was a fallout between the Cosmos ownership and MLS headquarters. Hence the condescending comments about the Cosmos Garber has made recently. The Cosmos joined the NASL without MLS having any knowledge of it until press conference time. The Cosmos plan to build their OWN stadium NOT using the pull that MLS already has, and being in no way related to it. It's not MLS bypassing the Cosmos, it's the Cosmos bypassing MLS. What they (the Cosmos) are trying to gain from that, I have no idea, but it's not MLS's decision to forget about the Cosmos. I'm sure Garber would LOVE to jump on those naming rights if he had the chance.

    Washed up DP internationals are not going to draw 20k. Not every player is David Beckham. Sure Ronaldinho would draw a crowd for a few games, but 2-3 years down the road I think not. Then what are they gonna do? Just keep selling their players for new younger ones? I think the Marlins have that market cornered...

    ...And I'm not the only one who thinks that MLS would expand to 22 with Orlando +1 instead of having an odd 21 teams. For a number of reasons. Especially in the location that Orlando is in in relation to other MLS markets.
     
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  20. aetraxx7

    aetraxx7 Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    Club:
    Des Moines Menace
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which is the point that we have been trying to make - especially those of us that are not in/from South Florida. This is the point that Smoke kept arguing against.
    I agree; they would at least consider what the Strikers have to offer. They did the same with the Cosmos, until that bunch of buffoons screwed things up.
    Again, I agree. But my instinct still tells me that the team would not be known as "Ft Lauderdale," for the reasons listed in your first paragraph. How would the local fanbase respond to "Florida Strikers" or "South Florida Strikers?"
     
  21. Antique

    Antique Member

    Nov 11, 2008
    the river of grass
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In April of 2012 some poster named "Stinky" asked about the chances of an MLS team coming to SoFl. We've pretty much battled about WHERE a team should be. Let's see if we can agree on IF we might get one and, if so, WHEN.

    Any ideas?
     
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  22. RalphsMom

    RalphsMom Member

    Feb 26, 2011
    Plantation, FL
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd say the chances of MLS coming to SoFla in the next 5-10 years are around 35% - 40%. It's a real possibility with a bunch of different scenarios, but at the moment with the information we have, it's not very likely.
     
  23. nbace

    nbace Member

    Jacksonville Armada FC
    United States
    Apr 8, 2006
    Jacksonville, FL
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Whenever someone decides to pony up the expansion fee and build or retro-fit a stadium. If the Strikers want to pony up...they'll get in....but it sure doesn't look like they want to spend $100 million plus build a stadium at this moment.

    Most likely scenario for something soon would be if Beckham decides to make Miami his "discount" team...and either partner with the Dolphins at Joe Robbie or maybe play at FIU or even build something.

    Not that this will happen...but the BEST STADIUM in South Florida right now for a soccer team is the new FAU Football stadium. 30,000 seats, high end club/luxury seating on one side, location right off I-95 in Boca. Had a decent crowd for the USWNT and they have Germany vs. Ecuador at the end of May.
     
  24. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Not while Traffic is the majority owner of the Strikers and not while MLS has it's current set up. First, Traffic is a competitor of SUM. I can see them becoming partners in SUM but that would take a lot of negotiation. Second, Traffic does a lot of business in player transfers. MLS single entity system with the league owning all player contracts make it difficult for Traffic to do their thing.

    Just doesn't make sense for Traffic.
     
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  25. Smoke & Mirrors

    Jul 18, 2010
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    All right, now that post was far clearer to me than others you've made. But I still disagree whole heartedly with your assertion that anyone would care about the name "Miami" Whatevers more than the Ft. Lauderdale Strikers, strictly speaking about soccer, not spring break, or South Beach, or any other context. As you yourself pointed out, Miami doesn't exactly have a sterling reputation when it comes to supporting pro sports in general, and most importantly, American club soccer specifically. THAT is what will matter to the league when it comes to kicking the tires on this market, not the "cache" of a city name. The only pro soccer history worth mentioning in this entire market is #1 the Ft. Lauderdale Strikers, and a distant #2 the Miami Fusion....who played in Ft. Lauderdale, at Lockhart. All sponsors care about is how many butts are in the seats, and how many people are watching on tv. That's it. And because history has shown us that there is far greater interest for the domestic game for the Strikers than for anything ever tried in Miami, it's a no-brainer that that is where the league would look first, IF the right circumstances were in place (ownership, stadium). Look, the league can't risk coming back into this market (or Tampa for that matter) with even the slightest chance of them getting the black eye and bad press that would result from a second failed team in the same city. There is just no way. That means they need the safest, and most secure situation for American pro soccer in place in this market to even think about granting an expansion franchise. I think all of the back and forth in this thread and others is pretty clear that the Ft. Lauderdale Strikers playing in either a substantially renovated Lockhart, or a new SSS in Sawgrass or even downtown fits that bill far better than any Miami team playing on a plastic, college football field in south Dade, or a 75% empty Joe Robbie Stadium. It's not even close.
     
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