ChampionsWorld files for Chapter 11

Discussion in 'Business and Media' started by obie, Jan 19, 2005.

  1. kingjackdaniel

    Jul 16, 2004
    Dyer, IN
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was there! The Polish women looked amazing! I had no idea they could be that hot!
     
  2. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    :)

    I wrote it before, I'll write it again: This was the most loathed sports match that I can recall. It takes a certain amount of twisted genius to turn so many friendly faces into mortal enemies with one 2-hour event.
     
  3. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Neither did any of us My wife is Lithuanian, neighbors of the Poles. I told her, "Your relatives don't look like that." She replied, "These girls are out of your league, dear." Her usual answer.

    What can I say, she had a point. But a man can dream.
     
  4. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Congratulations for being one of the dumbest people on these boards. You have no idea the lofty company you are in.

    The EPL was formed to take advantage to the many benefits of the NFL model. The most important of these is the rights and marketing fees under one brand. If the EPL could get away with it, I'm sure it would have opted for a closed shop like the NFL. With the way the rich clubs in the EPL and Serie A have expanded their reach and relative wealth, they have hardly in most opinions had the game's integrity at the front of their minds. In fact, many would argue that the biggest clubs have exploited the popularity of the sport to make themselves rich beyond belief at the expense of the common fan and the smaller clubs. Look at what it costs to attend an EPL game. The very existance of Champions World speaks to this fan exploitation.

    If you want to examine it further, you could argue that a model that ensures the leagues teams call all compete on an even keel is better for the game's integrity because it has the collective interests of the enterprise as a whole in mind and doesn't limit the spoils, on field and off to a small few. If you ask me, a expanded UEFA Champions League featuring an endless string of meaningless group games is by far a more damaging gimmick and shallow money grab than an all star game that celebrates the sport. You write about integrity and point to an all star game and a draft as well as gimmicks that were removed a while ago? What a stretch that is. Besides that, the last thing I'd associate with anything related to Italian football is integrity. There are more payoffs and side deals corrupting that game than any play off or all star game could possibly could.
     
  5. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    (Insert inevitable joke about how we expected Poland's primary export to be sausages)
     
  6. Siegen

    Siegen New Member

    Jul 2, 2003
    Boise, Idaho

    What makes European leagues more meaningful?
     
  7. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    Actually, I'd venture that CW has done quite a bit to harm the game here in the US:

    I suffered through the waste of time that was ManUre v Bayern. I won't get into how much we paid for tickets, but:

    1. I brought a few friends who aren't big soccer fans, and came away with renewed disdain for the game due to the lack of effort on ManUre's part.
    2. I also brought a few friends who used to be soccer fans, and they too came away with renewed disdain for soccer.

    A poor product is damage enough for the game, but a poor product, an exorbitant(sp.) price, AND false advertising is a business recipe for hatred. In both cases, I think it will be a long time before I can convince some of my non-soccer-fan friends to attend another match, CW, MLS, or otherwise. ALL soccer entities have/will suffer due to CW in the US.
     
  8. nyrmetros

    nyrmetros Member

    Feb 7, 2004
    yes.
     
  9. gherter

    gherter Member

    Sep 16, 2002
    Leesburg, Virginia
    What grave? They just filed chapter 11. It just means that no one can sue them for payment right now and really put them out of business, which is what chapter 7 is. With revenues of 25 million and only 2 million in the hole, CW looks great compared to MLS. All they need to do is be more careful next time, and they could easily turn a profit again. I read that they wanted to try some sort of tournament this year to make the games more meaningful. That would be a good step, IMO, and might fix what is wrong with the CW enough to keep them around forever. That would be fine with me, though, because I think, except for the MU/Bayern match, CW is good for American Soccer. Everywhere CW goes that doesn't have an MLS team, there are people wondering why not afterwards.
     
  10. Fur Elise

    Fur Elise New Member

    Sep 27, 2004
    Sierra Madre, CA, US
    Look I am saddened by this. But the bottom line is poor financial management and poor timing. This was right after Euro 2004. Of course the stars were tired. Of course the best did not show up. The only ones who showed up were reserves, old and no longer internationals or kicked out early on and wanted to be able to come to the US and walk around. Maybe someone with better vision, understands the different markets and starts small again will make it work. They need to get MLS involved too. Real Madrid should play an all star MLS team. Ask Mexican leagues to play against large Euro teams in predominantly Hispanic markets. Maybe ask Argentinian or Brazilian teams to play Euro teams. The best MLS teams can play Europe as well. Come on these teams go to Japan and make money. Soccer keeps growing with FSW and Gol TV. They need to make it work and market it right. :cool:
     
  11. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    Maybe, but keep in mind that high attendance for a one-off match doesn't necessarily translate to sustained support for soccer.

    It only takes casual interest to get someone to shell out $50 for a heavily promoted one time only event with glamorous names, but it's whole another to get the same person to invest 7 months out of the year to support a team that's not quite as fashionable.
     
  12. Saeyddthe

    Saeyddthe Member

    Sep 5, 2003
    St. Looney ^the CB&J
  13. SF Gooner

    SF Gooner New Member

    Apr 21, 2004
    tri state stunna
    This sucks! I enjoyed going to see these teams play. I was kinda hoping Arsenal would come over one of these years on the tour. I'll support the MLS but it's just not as good and it's definitely not the same. I'm not blind. It was a good time driving to these matches from city to city. WACK!
    :mad:
     
  14. Yukon Cornelius

    Oct 24, 2003
    New York
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Stop Bashing?

    Excuse me? Your first post on this thread went something like this:

    Exactly who is bashing whom, here?

    I had nothing at all against major european clubs playing exhibitions in the US over their offseason. The prices were a bit much where I live, but I still tried to make it to the matches.

    But the attitude of the championsworld promoters - their constant swipes at MLS, their "this just proves that if you put a quality product on the field, people will come" condescension to the league (a league, by the way, that helps create fans to go watch Championsworld games) - it was just unbearable. The smugness at drawing 60,000 for a game that only happens once a year became annoying beyond measure.

    As do the people who don't see the value of supporting their domestic league.
     
  15. Roehl Sybing

    Roehl Sybing Guest

    May European soccer on American shores die in a torrent of fire. My only hope is that the utter and unspectacular implosion of ChampionsWorld is a sign of things to come.

    Naturally, my condemnation could have been more bluntly presented.
     
  16. Rommul

    Rommul Member

    Aug 26, 2003
    NYC
    I don't see why it matters either way.

    There are obviously different markets for many products here.

    There are markets for MLS, Mexican league and european football etc.

    These markets have very little overlap.

    Why would anyone want to deny people who don't enjoy MLS or Mexican league the enjoyment they seem to get (for whatever reason I don't understand) from european football?

    I don't see why so many people are so gleeful about this.
     
  17. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Because the same people who tout European club soccer tend to be the same who bad mouth everything in the U.S. -- MLS, national team, etc. I'm in the "pro CW" camp but I must admit that several of my fellow camp members are insufferable Euro snobs.
     
  18. Rommul

    Rommul Member

    Aug 26, 2003
    NYC
    I am in "CW game are friendlies camp" and I can totally see that point but if these people are snobs who cares what they think anyway?

    I guess since I don't take what these people say seriously I am not in a position to enjoy seeing them fail.
     
  19. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It doesn't look like CW is going anywhere. In today's world, companies go in and out of bankruptcy like its a normal thing. They'll be back next year.

    It's pretty obvious that the people behind CW have some gripes with MLS. That's offensive to me. However, I don't live in an MLS market and this gave me a chance to see a few games near my home. For that I'm thankful. And, at least in Philly, the question as to why there is no MLS team here was asked both years. The attendance at the three games doesn't indicate that 40,000 will come out every game for MLS, but most of the people at those three games were people who'd buy Philly MLS tickets which indicates the city would support a team. If its all you have, you'll go.
     
  20. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    Thank you. There are posters on both sides of the issue who don't get this. MLS and CW are not comparable products, just as someone who regularly attends indie rock shows at small venues doesn't get worked up if, say, U2 rolls into town and plays a packed Madison Square Garden.

    European soccer is not an MLS-killer, and conversely, supporting MLS shouldn't blind one from the charms of European soccer.

    The problem isn't European soccer - it's that CW could have benefitted, and benefitted from, MLS if they had reached out but they chose not to (that was never going to happen, of course - personalities and short term profits got in the way). That, and CW's crap business model.
     
  21. Brownswan

    Brownswan New Member

    Jun 30, 1999
    Port St. Lucie, FL
    So do I . That's why I've held Metro season tix since '96

    That's one way to do it. It is extremely naive to assume that is the ONLY way to do it. As for history, it has to start somewhere. As pioneers we are making history; as a couch potato, you are not. Salary caps? Probably 80% of the EPL sides dream such a blessing might arrive in their league! We have real teams. We even have a team NAMED ReAL. To some, a joke, but one that we enjoy.

    So that's why CW-type sides keep losing exhibitions to MLS teams -- they don't play their reserves! And if you say exhibitions don't matter, I'd agree. That's why I avoid the whole CW summer circus.

    I think that would raise attendance to 40,250 - 60,250, by your count. But the Eurosnobs and the Big-Event-Only crown won't show, so we will have to settle for our 14-15k average -- which is better than 250, certainly. Actually, if CD Chivas is competitive this season, I think they will pump the draw where ever they play, much as Freddy did last season. I look for a 16-17k average in 2005.

    Gioca, if you were a fan of soccer, you'd want to help the home leagues grow. But you want everything on your own terms; you want European history here and you want it now. Well, it's a nice dream, but dreaming is for boys; building is for men. You may not be up to the job.
     
  22. Gioca

    Gioca Member

    Jun 13, 2004
    Hartford
    Club:
    US Città di Palermo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't live in an MLS city, so either way I'm going to be a couch potato. If I support the Metros or Revs, I'm making a case that Hartford doesn't need a team because its close to those teams, so I won't go to those games.

    Regardless of whether a smaller city like mine belongs in MLS is another matter. But at least we can obviously hold our own in a second division and see what happens. Unfortunately, MLS doesn't even want to consider that option, and I won't consider MLS until they do.

    It's not even that far a drive, but I won't do it because I'd rather have a team here. And believe me, if that was one of my options, I'd be at all the games. If I lived in an MLS city, I'd be at all the regular season games (not the playoffs!). But I don't, and MLS doesn't care, so my boycott of sorts is one that's for change.

    And in my situation, are you saying that preferring to watch European leagues on TV as opposed to MLS is the difference between a man and a boy? Well, like most normal people, I find European leagues and atmospheres much more exciting, and on summer weekend afternoons I'm nowhere near a television set anyway.
     
  23. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you sure CW didn't approach MLS teams? Or is it possible that MLS rejected the opportunity to work with CW because they feared it would devalue their product?

    I think they did try to work with MLS, at least New England for certain, but the Revs turned them down for a match.
     
  24. mpruitt

    mpruitt Member

    Feb 11, 2002
    E. Somerville
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    So many people make this kind of excuse for not following MLS. I just don't get it. Even people talk about this when re-upping their season tickets. 'Well they never tried to reach me.'

    What purpose or reason would advertising by MLS have for you. Advertising or any kind of marketing that would be done like the kind you're talking about is more about awareness. Are you unaware that two MLS teams exist within a relatively short driving distance from you? Or are you just not compelled to care or go? What sort of advertising or marketing outside of 'C'mon Gioca! We're coming to pick you up!' would be effective in trying to get people like you to go to MLS games?
     
  25. Gioca

    Gioca Member

    Jun 13, 2004
    Hartford
    Club:
    US Città di Palermo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm talking about adding a second division so there's more teams in places where there currently aren't any. Not advertising or marketing.
     

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