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Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by sounderfan, Nov 11, 2004.
From the EPL kickoff Handbook/The Times:
I refuse to support the Champions World tour.
I don't care what it brings to our country.
I see it as a cash grab, and little more.
I agree, but it is nice for some people Stateside to see at least a bit of quality football every year, yeah?
Re: Champions World Tour
Sir, I am not attacking you personally, but this is quite possibly one of the most misplaced statements on BigSoccer. There is absolutely no quality play in seeing reserve squads play with veterans trying to avoid injury in their preseason. You are either:
a. Sarcastic in your statement, or
b. Patently ignorant of reality as it pertains to "quality football."
FVKC Champions World, and especially FVKC Man Ure for the steaming pile of shyte they put on the pitch at New Soldier Field. FVKC Sir Alex Ferguson for embarassing his club's reputation by putting forth no effort to earn the dollars spent at that match. I for one would like for Champions World to go away, never to rip off another customer again.
What Khan said.
Well, that and "bite a fart."
Of course it's a cash grab, but the small benefit is that each game is yet another opportunity to bring together the far-flung soccer fans in one place. That's something BigSoccer does a whole lot better, but not everybody's discovered it yet.
I don't support it either. I find it offensive that they don't include a few MLS teams.
The idea of making it into a trournament will help me get into it, but I doubt that will be enough. I will have to wait and see if the teams take it seriously.
The cost is too high to actually go to one, IMO. I thought about the AC Milan/Barcel one they had in DC two years ago, but tickets were 80 dollars or so for what I am used to at DCU games. No way am I gonna shell that out for an exhibition.
The guy's argument about why watch MLS because the EPL is on TV is interesting. That is why I don't watch the CWS, because I see enough real EPL/Bundesliga, etc. games on FSW. No point in watching CWS, IMO. Especially because I have the MLS DirectKick and can watch a bunch of regular season MLS games during that time. Real games are better than the CWS even if MLS has weaker teams.
I can support US soccer and drive 2 miles and see PDL soccer or 200 miles and see MLS - both with goood teams with something to gain or lose.
Or I can support big club soccer and drive 300 miles or farther and see two better teams play a friendly for two or three times the ticket price.
The former is a no-brainer choice for me.
That's pretty much why I haven't bothered w/ CW. I watch enough "real" soccer to know that these half-speed exhibition matches aren't really soccer. Yet the combination of gullibility and snobbery among the "CW is real soccer" crowd (which does NOT include everyone who goes to CW matches! I must add) is amazing.
Now, if you want to go to CW because you love soccer, that's great. If you want to go because it's your only chance to see "real soccer" in the US, well... bite a fart.
I'm not sure why MLS fans (well at least the ones who post on these CWS threads) seem so against it. There is little reason to believe that MLS competes for much of the same dollars that go to CWS. Sure you might lose a few fans when the matches are at the same time but overall it appears that many of the fans who go to CWS games are not interested in MLS. If you don't want to attend CWS games fine that is your choice but attacking them seems silly to me.
I went to 2 games this summer and had fun while getting to see some players up close that I've seen many times on tv. My wife had a great night and it helped me convince her to watch more games with me and even go on a trip to England to watch Arsenal play. The dollars I spent were never going to go to MLS. I'm not a big MLS fan but I have attended some DCU games and watch them on a somewhat regular basis. However, I'm not going to stop watching the teams and leagues in Europe and S.America that I've followed for years before I moved to a MLS city.
On the topic of the level of play at the CWS, I think you are wrong to paint all of the games with the same brush. While the matches were just friendlies, the play did not look "half speed" at either the Milan/Chelsea or ManU/Celtic games in Philly that I attended although I'd agree with that comment for the ManU/B.Munich game I saw on tv.
Some of the games were total snoozers. Other games were great to watch. For the most part they're meaningless, but with a team like Chelsea, it was a chance for their summer signings to play together for the first time. I think Mourinho took it pretty seriously (does he take anything lightly?).
I enjoy watching world-class teams play, even if it is their second-string or reserve squad. They're still world-class.
I would like to see MLS teams in it, but it's in the middle of the season, right? Would they even want to be included? It would be interesting to see how MLS teams fare against the Euro squads.
I'll continue to watch CWS. It's in the middle of summer, when no other Euro leagues are going, and frankly, the MLS regular season holds no interest for me, considering 80% of the teams make the playoffs.
Yeah the tickets are expensive but those of you complaining about the ticket prices being $80 obviously have A) never been to a match in Europe where $80 will barely get you a cheap seat B) apparently don't follow our american sports at much higher ticket prices. The match in Chicago this year was a joke but I went to the AC Milan Man U match at Giants Stadium and it was quality. Also for those of you who knock Champions World as reserve squads 2003 had all the first team players and this year outside of Man U who is still dealing with injuries there were pretty much all first teamers.
Here's the point of the exercise, Cannon:
This isn't a "MLS v. CW" thread. Rather, the thread questions whether or not there is a benefit stateside to see CW. Whether or not it is worthy to see Sir Alex and his pansy-@ssed reservists, no-hopers, and zygotes tiptoe about for 90 minutes. This, at the cost of tickets which have soared north of $100 for some locales.
While it can be entertaining to see the giant clubs in the world play, that in of itself does not guarantee a high-quality product on the pitch. I've seen quality play in MLS, in A-League matches, even high school playoff matches, because they tend to mean a lot more to the clubs/players than CW matches. With little to nothing at stake, the cost/fun ratio for the informed fan is entirely incongruent at CW matches, for the most part.
I agree that watching some matches in the Prem, Serie A, La Liga, or Budisliga (sp.) are fun. But to term all matches in these leagues as high-quality isn't entirely informed, either. Many an afternoon has been wasted watching Premiership strugglers launch searching long ball after searching long ball at each other for 90 minutes in the British rain.
As to the waste of 2 hours that was Man Ure-Bayern this summer, I'd quantify the match as less than Sunday-league quality. Bayern made not even half an effort to entertain, while Man Ure made NO effort whatsoever. On the whole, CW matches are not nearly worth 1/10 the cost of the tickets. Especially when one can catch the matches the next day on FSW for free.
How about this, Cannon: Instead of lining the pockets of a fat, washed-up bastard like Chinaglia, (sp.) go to your local pub and catch CW matches on FSW. Take the ~$100 to $300 you'd waste on tickets and pour it into the local economy.
Once again, for those who tuned in late: FVKC CHAMPIONSWORLD. FVKC MAN URE. And FVKC SIR ALEX FERGUSON.
It's pretty obvious from your posts that your hatred is towards Man U not Champions World. 1 thing you fail to realize or take into account is Ruud had just finished Euro and got injured a week later, Ronaldo was gearing up for the olympics, Heinze didn't even meet the team until after the EPL season started, Rio was suspended, Iknow I'm forgetting some but WTF did you want SAF to do? Look at Man U's injuries this season and you tell me .
So Shut the FVCK up about Man U and SAF and if you want to complain about Champions World find another angle.
BTW it's only $80 you spent on the ticket and since when does paying for a ticket gaurantee the game is gonna be good?
So what do tickets to Serie D matches cost? What do tickets to reserve matches cost? Because that is exactly what was delivered.
You can't compare the cost of tickets to a regular season game in the NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB to a preseason match, which is what CW is. Preseason game tickets in NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB are generally discounted to a degree, if not given away for free. Your view on ticket cost to CW matches is entirely misplaced, sir.
Thank you for agreeing. Now if we found another Man Ure fan to agree, there would be two in the world ashamed of their club's performance.
If your team has injury issues, THEN DON'T FVKCING PLAY THE FVKCING MATCHES!!! DON'T FVKCING ACCEPT THE UNEARNED INCOME!!! Injuries are not an acceptable excuse to put forward anything but a professional effort. Keep your team in Manchester, and work out the injuries. Also, the overwhelming majority of first team players that do bother to make the trip tend to focus on not getting injured than playing up to their abilities. I don't expect the fervor of a Celtic-Ranger match, or the hate of a Barca-Real match, but maybe at least, you know try to play. Is this asking too much? I don't think so...
You know what you are an absolutely ignorant ************** so you goit screwed and paid money for a ************ match thats not Man U or Alex Fergusons fault ******** its not even Champions Worlds fault. ******** happens Live with it but to spew this misguided hatred around is ridiculous.
People like you have no business communicating with the outside world.
No, actually, I have disgust towards both. I always had admired Man Ure for their professionalism prior to that 2 hour waste of time. After that match, I discovered that all the hate towards Man Ure [they're a corporation, and not a club, after all] was well-founded.
Here's the solution: DON'T F_KCING AGREE TO PLAY THE F_KCING MATCHES. Skip out on ChampionsWorld rather than embarrasing yourselves. Stay home, heal up, and be ready for the next season. Rather than damaging your/your club's reputation, ask out of ChampionsWorld. Period. Make a decision based on football realities, not based on the business' bottom line.
So you're proud of your club's [lack of] performance and [lack of] professionalism tha day? Take off the team colors for a moment, and realize what Man Ure did to themselves that day. Realize the damage to club prestige inflicted by themselves that day. Realize that it is entirely possible and acceptable to be a supporter and also ashamed of a club's actions/performance at the same time.
No, but is it reasonable to expect a professional effort? Bayern didn't entertain, but they at least showed up and put on a professional effort. They tried, which is more than SAF/Man Ure can claim.
No, actually it is the fault of Champions World, the manager and the club.
Man Ure can either:
A. You go out to represent your club with professionalism and dignity every time you step out on the pitch, or
B. Ask out.
Sir Alex can either:
A. Realize that soccer fans in the US do understand the game, and put together a side prepared to play, or
B. Tell the board that the recent Euro, the upcoming Olympics, and injury issues all make a tour of the US impractical at best.
Champions World can either:
A. Present other, more prepared clubs as competitors, or
B. Not host the event.
It's really that simple.
I'm sure there are other large clubs that would like to make inroads into the US, but Man Ure [again, its a corporation, not a club] saw the dollars as irresistable.
And people like you should learn the art of proper grammar and the skill of (attempting to) spell words in the English language properly.
Let's not forget that ManUtd and Bayern were BOOED after their 0-0 draw at Soldier Field over the summer.
That was funny, and I honestly want my money back from that match.
First off all sports teams are corporations if you haven't realized it sports in general are a multi billion dollar business. Is it right for any company to put out a second rate product and charge top dollars for it NO. If thats what your main complaint is go complain in the microsoft, starbucks or any other big corporation forum. Now if you have any knowledge of how these things work you would realize that this thing was booked well in advance and at the time it was booked these injuries and problems didn't exist. You can't just cancel something of this nature at the last second because you want to you have to see it through with whatever is available to you.
As far as my spelling and grammar go if thats all you've got on me your reaching!!!
Well you can like them or hate them but I will be going again next year if the bring on the teams. I live an hour from Pittsburgh and caugfht the Chelsea Roma match then drove straight to Toronto and Watch THe Liverpool vs. Porto and Cletic vs Roma. 1 Pratice 2 cities 3 games 4 days 5 teams, expensive but Priceless family vaction!!
I also drove to the Celtic vs. Roma game at Skydome. I definitely thought it was worth the money and my time. Most of the big names played, and I thought Totti was incredible. I guess it's hit or miss though, as I saw that Bayern-ManU game on TV. I'll never get those 2 hours back.
Of course this is a cash grab. Who cares? How many other chances will I get to see these teams. The more people you get interested in soccer in North America, the better off MLS is. It can't hurt. It's that simple.
This is the exact point I've been trying to make to that ignorant ************** Khan!!!
So now you're suggesting that Man Ure didn't know that the Euro was coming up this year? That Sir Alex didn't know about the Olympics? You're suggesting that Man Ure didn't have an idea as to the possibility of the players needing a break? Or that these competitions [which in your mind just "snuck up on the club"] may have required the club to release some players to their national teams?
The reality is that Sir Alex and Man Ure knew that in the summer of 2004, there would be these two competitions: The "Olympics," [raises air quotes for emphasis, a la Dr. Evil] and The "European Championships." [Again raises the air quotes for emphasis] In fact, they knew about these "competitions" [Again, air quotes for jayro75's benefit] for at least 4 years.
So to claim that the corporation knew about Championsworld well in advance, and didn't suspect that, MAYBE there would be injuries, fatigue, et. al due to the prior season and national team duty in the summer is wholly wrong. It is an "excuse" [with air quotes] without merit. It is, a "steaming pile." [with air quotes, for jayro75's benefit]
Again, prior planning prevents poor performance. Perhaps the corporation's choice in mining for American dollars in the offseason rather than resting is in part to blame for the team's poor start to the season. I for one can not be more pleased by this development.
I'm trying to help: Your statements will carry more weight when you learn the difference between "your" [with air quotes] and "you're". [again, with air quotes]
ChampionsWorld sucks. It won't benefit American soccer. I went to the Real Madrid-Roma and Man U-Juve match. Both wanted to put me asleep. Give me MLS any day. I'm never going back to another ChampionsWorld crap.