I dunno about Spurs , Sam but I put most of it down to the heat and missing key attacking players affecting our preparations . We've been missing a huge chunk of our attacking players. Salah , Mane , Firmino , Shaq, Keita . That meant mf's like Ox and Gini having to play as forwards rather than mf where they were most effective for us. I think we started to preseason with 15 players missing and they returned in dribs and drabs over the past month. We've still got 6 of them to get a start as of yet this summer. Then we had the summer heat wave throw a spanner in the works with those conditions being far from ideal for strenuous fitness training or games as the heat sapped energy . Three games plus double training sessions each day in a week under those weather conditions and the players looked drained. And all of them looked that way still v Napoli with perhaps a bit of jet lag thrown in too.
Would you swap Liverpool's last 24 months with Spurs if it meant we won more friendlies in the last two weeks?
granted all of that, but do you really think none of those issues (missing players, heat, training sessions, travel) have been challenges for Spurs, speke?
I dunno , Sam . I think they've been issues for us but I also think we'll be good to go by the Norwich game as things get back to normal for us.
It is entirely relevant. In the last 24 months have the people in charge of training, scouting, recuiting and selling players earnt your trust? I could have been more relevant, I could have pointed out that due to the Charity Shield our preseason started 10 days earlier than Spurs, that from their first game they saw Kane, Eriksen, Moura, Son and Lamala available in attack while we've had Salah, Mane, Bobby and Shaq away from our attack, effectively making us play to systems and players we are rarely going to use. I could have pointed out the difference in weather between Singapore and Germany and the US, the difference in pitches, the fact that we are European Champions and for the last 24 months been the darlings of Europe meaning we are seen as a bigger scalp than most. I've not watched all of Spur's friendlies but I'd be surprised if a team was not kicking the shit out of their players like Sevilla did ours. Usually preseason is a mixture of experience and youth, like we did in most of the games in midfield and defense. Origi has been our only experienced attacker, himself a fringe player. It is hard to organize around that, does Klopp focus all his energy in having the entire preseason focus on playing a 4-5-1, which does not really do the players much good for the vast majority of the season, or does he have them play 4-3-3 with players in attack that are just placeholders? I could have said all that and more, but you seem determined to be angry at losses in games no one is going to remember about in a month's time.
if you go back and look, you'll see me stating that I normally pay next to no attention to preseason games for all the obvious reasons (the only preseason game I can remember from prior years was the MU hammering last year). I'm not angry - and I'm not particularly worried. but I am concerned. I am concerned because what I saw vs Napoli was probably the worst 90 minutes I've seen LFC play for a very long time (maybe even decades). it was painfully obvious (to me if nobody else) that we are a long way from being ready for the season that starts next week. so I disagree with those who are shrugging it off as not important and finding multiple reasons to ignore our inability to beat weaker teams who are facing many of the same preseason challenges as us. of course the game isn't important and the result means next to nothing. but the performance was important, and if you saw the game I can't believe you find it so easy just to dismiss how abysmal it was. apart from the last 5 minutes we did basically eff-all, no player did well, and the level of disorganization and lack of coordination was remarkable.
So the last preseason game is today. It will be interesting to see how Klopp handles it. He may just use it to give starts to some of the players that haven’t played as much. Lallana could get a start in his new role as a 6. Gomez and Lovren could use some minutes. I would like to see more of Brewster. He could throw Allison straight back in. There could also be a run out for Salah, Firmino, Keita, and Shaqiri.
Borussia Dortmund and Napoli are not weaker teams, they are of the same tier as us, runners up in their respective leagues. On aggregate we drew 1-1 with Napoli in the Champions League, finishing on the same points and same goal difference. Nothing separated us in that respect. Dortmund played a much stronger team than we did. They only had their Swiss players missing, Akanji and Hitz. Apart from that it was pretty even in the first half but when they have Reus, Delany and Hazard swapping for Sancho, Gotze and Alcacer in attack then that should explain to you who had the weaker squad available to them at the time. Are you really arguing we and Dortmund were at similar strength? That we had similar level players missing? Sevilla are slightly poorer than us, Napoli and Dormund, but not by much and like Dortmund they had a pretty full strength squad. Their South Americans, Banega, Vasquez and Ocampos were all available, they had no players involved in the African cup. They were in a better position than us, both in terms of who they had available and dealing with the heat. These are not weaker teams, these are hard teams to beat in any situation. Had we been drawn against Napoli, Sevilla and Dortmund last season it would be called a group of death. The fact that their teams had more of their players available to them also favours them. I'd also point out that we would not have done so bad if the players missing were spread out from the entire team, but not having Salah, Mane, Bobby and Shaq available from one area of the pitch was going to hurt more.
Exciting lineup: Allison Hoever Gomez Lovren Larouci Lallana Shaqiri Keita Salah Firmino Wilson Subs: Mignolet, Lonergan, Fabinho, Van Dijk, Wijnaldum, Milner, Henderson, O-Chamberlain, Brewster, Robertson, Origi, Matip, Lewis, Duncan, A-Arnold, Elliott, Van den Berg
This lineup kind of highlights the one thing I think the squad is missing. Salah, Shaqiri, and Wilson are all left footed players who want to play on the right and cut in to their left foot. Who can play on the left if we rest Mane? Klopp has played Origi and Brewster exclusively through the middle this preseason. Since Mane is the most versatile of our forwards, having someone to cover him would have given us more flexibility since Mane can easily play on the right or through the middle.
Is it possible that Sam and pikas are looking at the same glass but through different prisms, you know the glass being half full or being half empty? Klopp himself, while highlighting positives from the pre-season games and also "reasons" for the stodgy performances, has also voiced concerns at the number of poor decisions by players regardless. I think we're behind in terms of preparation than last year so expect some lacklustre early games. Most of the worriers among us, however, are focusing on the health of the front three throughout the course of the season. I still think we'll be fine in that respect. My perennial bugbear is the midfield but I'm hoping that Fabinho, Shaqiri and Keita will step up their performances this season and, also, that Oxlade-Chamberlain will rediscover his best form while staying healthy. We're going to need all of them to justify the time and patience afforded to them. I'm not expecting too much from Lallana but some good decent games but to be healthy when needed.
I could just ask you, but to please those moaners Sam, Delaynomo and Burning I'm gonna look up Notre Dame....
er, as to the bold bit.... are you crazy??? step-up - Fabino??? I think you are fairly close to spot-on with the underlined bit though ...
Uh, oh! Penalty and Depay makes it 1-0 to Lyon as Alisson makes a hash of a straightforward catch. I must say the spine (Lovren, Gomez and Lallana) is looking rickety.
Could have been so much worse but Firmino equalises. I can see why we're not buying backup left back.