well I don't buy most of these comments. lots of travel? how is it different from last year's pre-season? last season 3 weeks longer? that's a reason for player to be somewhat unfit, not totally disorganized and having zero cohesion. ANC and Americas comps? those guys were missing of course, but all the others were out there playing dismally. still focusing on their fitness? I don't even know what that's supposed to mean in this context. it certainly imo doesn't explain playing really really badly. it's not like they were doubled over in pain after chasing one of Napoli's many breakaway attacks. midfield formation a tad different? come on. what does that have to do with the defence leaving huge gaps, and players mis-hitting tons of passes when under no pressure at all? we'll be fine once the SFM line is back? almost all have now been back for a couple of weeks and look how badly they are playing. no offense to anyone, but it sounds like a bunch of wishful thinking. I usually don't really care very much about preseason results, but wow, we have been dreadful so far. I just hope you guys are right and I'm wrong.
I think I'll give the Champions League winning and record PL points achieving (for a team not owned by an oil state) manager a bit of slack and deference before I start freaking out and seeing the season as over.
Last season's Champion's League Final was in June, the previous year it was in May. Our season finished a week later. Last year we were not in the Charity Shield, meaning competitive football has started a week earlier for the club. That is two weeks more we had last season. The African Nations Cup finished a week after the World Cup did the previous year, meaning that the players involved in that are back a week later than last year. More of our players were involved in international tournaments this summer than last, Lovren who made the final of the World Cup was not missed or essential to our first eleven. All 3 of our primary attackers has missed our entire preseason this summer due to other football commitments. We tested a new team dynamic against a very good Napoli side. Last years game against Napoli featured all 3 of Mane, Salah and Firmino. Klopp was planning for the Prem kick off, this season he's having to plan for the Charity Shield kick off a week earlier without his first choice front line. He's experimenting. We've had less games. Last summer we played Chester, Tranmere, Bury and Blackburn, these were the games we focused on fitness. We've not had the same time this summer with only two equivalent games against lower league oppositon. Sure. It happens. It was a friendly. It means the result means nothing. Winning 5-0 last season against Napoli in a friendly meant nothing because 2 months later we'd draw with them 1-1 over the two legs in the Champions League game. It is a friendly, the result is not important. Better to get beat 3-1 so Klopp can see the problems with playing a 4-5-1 hybrid and be in a positon to rectify them then win in an easy exhibition game that hides any flaws that a new system may have. Surely people were giving you multiple reasons for why we played bad. It was not just down to one factor, but many. Defenders being largely unfit, only been in preseason training for just over a week is a reason they looked bad. This season we have seen more youth than any previous season and it's largely been down to the first team players recuperating from a longer season than normal and an earlier start to the season than normal. It was a friendly. I can't imagine how insufferable you are going to be if we lose our first league game of the season.
Let's see where we are at the end of October (you don't win the title by then but you can as sure as a billy goat's touch lose it.)
We can argue over the reasons why but from what I've seen this summer and I've watched every preseason game so far I think that this team is just not ready yet . One more Friendly on Wednesday then City in the Community Shield and we've yet to look anything like the Champions of Europe. We are not up to snuff at either end of the pitch . Leaking goals at the back and looking slow and ineffective when attacking. I'm not worried for the long term though, I think once our missing attackers return and Klopp starts playing a settled back four things will come around but normally these things would have already been the case by now. However this summer has been so disjointed that we're still at the stage of reintegrating key players with less than a week to our first competitive game .
On a more positive note I thought the kids who came on late in the game yesterday did really well, actually played better than some of our regulars. Young Harvey Elliott certainly didn't look overawed by his debut for the Reds. He was comfortable on the ball used it well and on first blush looks a very good prospect indeed. Brewster also did well and his movement was better than what we saw in the first half from our forwards. I thought Hoever and Wilson did their chances no harm either.
these have been the worst preseason results for a long long time. we've beaten Tranmere and Bradford, and got one point from the other 12 available (so to speak). I don't expect us to be firing on all 8 cylinders at this point, but being "embarrassed" (Robbo's description btw) all over the pitch cannot be just shrugged off. ppl can rationalize all they want, and I admire and appreciate the positivity, but at some stage you cannot ignore what your eyes are telling you. as for all the stats about travel, formations, missing players, lack of fitness etc ..... - does anyone really think those issues are enough to allow us to dismiss the gulf between us and Napoli, who (I'm sure) could make a number of the same excuses? - based on what we've seen so far, does anyone really feel good about us being ready for next Sunday and the start of the Prem season? as for pikas' "insufferable" comment, I could make a number of snarky comments myself but I'll pass. pointing out legitimate concerns following a deplorably bad performance is not throwing in the towel for the season. of course we'll improve, but we need to do it immediately and yes, there is cause for concern that we won't be able to throw the switch in time. before I go ... of course we won't perform at top level without our top players - like every other team - but are you saying that without the MFS line, we shouldn't expect to compete properly in any part of the pitch?
You make good points overall, mostly because it is preseason and key players are still missing, but losing to Norwich at home is a disaster. So in the case that that happens, let's just put that out there now so that. perhaps, you won't be as bothered by what would follow that loss, some very earned incredibly harsh criticism. Klopp is talking about how the CL win doesn't matter any more, and guess what, he's right; it's a new season, this club needs to win the prem, now is the chance to do it, he has seemingly elected to not spend in order to rely on names like Shaqiri/Ox/Wilson/Origi as cover for players like Mane & Salah... so to follow this kind of somewhat inexplicably shit summer with a loss to Norwich? That is completely unacceptable. I mean I'm not concerned, I'd predict a very comfortable 3-0... but I'm just saying.
I didn’t say that there is no cause for concern. I was just pointing out that the conditions for this preseason are far from ideal. Besides not having the front 3, two of our most attacking/creative players have also been missing in Shaqiri and Keita. Both have now returned to training along with Salah and Firmino. Things can start looking better really quickly once they all get up to speed. I mentioned the preseason games against Barca, Bayern, and Napoli in the previous 3 preseasons in which we thrashed really good opposition and got us really excited about the start of the season. The timing of those games was the same week as the what the Community Shield will be this year. The game against City is an awkward one because it is coming too soon. It’s a preseason game with a lot of meaning attached to it. The week after we travel to Istanbul to play against another one of our rivals for another trophy that has questionable importance. Then in December we will compete for yet another trophy in the midst of the busiest month of the season. I would hope that our players are not allowing anything that happens in preseason impact their confidence. Klopp called these players mentality monsters. They should start the season with the confidence of European champions.
Yeah I really wish we weren't playing City in this fixture... but whatever. I'm excited for Norwich and then the Supercup though, I think Norwich (not City) will be a good segue into a string of wins because I expect it to be a match that will get some of the most crucial elements of the first 11 up and running, and it should lead to a number of wins IMO. But I'm glad that people are concerned other than me, because this has been a very, very concerning summer for a whole number of reasons, not merely 1 or 2 or 5. And I'm just saying I think it's hard to credibly dismiss a lot of the concerns. So I just wasn't sure what your point was, overall. But yeah, we'll see how this all shakes out.
It’s only concerning because these preseason matches are all we get to see. Klopp is just as concerned (if not more) with what he sees on the training pitch. We also don’t know how intense the training was the day before or even the morning of a match. I trust he knows what he is doing and will have the team ready for the games that count. Klopp really values the week that the players now have in France. I’m sure he can use our awful preseason results as motivation and to make it clear that European Cup is behind them and there is new job to do.
Klopp is saying the training sessions are going well .... "Have we had the best pre-season of our lives? I cannot say that with the results, but the sessions were really good," said Klopp. https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49150019
Sweet. Happy with that at least. Gini and Ox on the wings have been very poor from what I've watched. I'm troubled by their playing in those general areas.
agree with that speke. one of the biggest challenges for Klopp is to decide which of the kids to keep in the 1st team squad, who toe lend out, who to sell. Brewster looks nailed on to be a regular sub, but I don't know about any of the others though.
Certainly cause for alarm. This summer all our starters have been in all the training sessions. We didn't finish with 96 points last year. And we haven't recently won the Champions League. There is no evidence this team can pull it together.
Me, I'm going to wait until the season starts before I start talking like Sky News. There's an old addage in tennis that goes something like. If your practice goes badly, your match will be good. Or is it, if your practice is good you'll have a lousy match. Anyway, I'm going to wait untill we have a full and fit team before I start whinging.
IMO they had rubber legs for Napoli , not because of travel because of training and on purpose, and therefore any inferences drawn as to our crapness are badly mistaken.
many ppl are saying that the reasons we've done badly in this preseason are too little time, too much travel, and too many players at AFCON/COPA. let's compare us to Spurs (who every commentator last season said had a very thin bench)..... a) off-season has been too short - Spurs' season ended same time as ours - we had 3 games in League Cup & FA Cup combined - Spurs had 6 games in League Cup & FA Cup combined b) we've travelled too far - Spurs have travelled to China, SIngapore and Germany c) AFCON / COPA - we had 3 players at AFCON, 3 at COPA - Spurs had 2 players at AFCON, 2 at COPA So .... how badly have they performed in their preseason? beat Juve in Singapore lost to Manure in China beat RM in Munich I guess ppl will say they've peaked too soon?
They beat Juve on a 60 yard lob at the death from Kane and Madrid on a back pass from Marcelo. That's all they played. We've played 6 friendlies already. Not a single one with our main strike force. They have had Kane, Alli, Son, and Eriksen the entire time. Not sure I'm really that scared of Spurs.
So what’s your point? That Klopp doesn’t know how to prepare for the season? That we are all of a sudden a crap team? That we should all be panicking?