Champ Car vs IRL 2008

Discussion in 'Automotive' started by the cup, Jan 5, 2008.

  1. the cup

    the cup Member

    Jul 10, 2002
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    The deal has been completed and a new future starts today.
     
  2. Pack87Man

    Pack87Man BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 1, 2001
    Quad Cities
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My dad isn't a huge race fan, but he and my brothers and I went to see the Iowa race last year. Now, though, he's excited and really wants to go back. Unification is a big, big deal, and the more I see, the more I'm starting to wonder if it's not a bigger deal than any fan realized.
     
  3. alexp92

    alexp92 Member

    Jul 5, 2007
  4. Flyin Ryan

    Flyin Ryan Member

    May 13, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The true IndyCar fans I think realize what it is. It's a chance for this "racing code" to get back and at least claim some of its former greatness.

    I've always lived in North Carolina, so NASCAR's always been #1 where I live. But my dad's a native Hoosier and he always was a USAC and IndyCar guy and so I watched both.

    If this merger goes ahead, IndyCar needs to go back and aim to grab their true heartland back from NASCAR: the Midwestern racing fan.
     
  5. Pack87Man

    Pack87Man BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 1, 2001
    Quad Cities
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's very true, but I think commentators underestimate just how into IndyCar the midwest is. Yeah, NASCAR has made some strides around here, but overall, the buzz is for IndyCar. What I think needs to happen is that Indy needs to win over the regions of the country that are more neutral, i.e. the Pacific Northwest and the west. I don't know that they'll ever make headway in the southeast, other than Florida.
     
  6. Flyin Ryan

    Flyin Ryan Member

    May 13, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    NASCAR hates this comment but it's true. The West by and large just doesn't like oval racing. If you ever go there, you'll find a lot of people that love racing. It's just that all of them are into desert racing and exotic cars (sportscar racing). They can tell you a lot more about the suspension of a KTM desert bike than they can a small-block Chevy.

    You can have your one race a year there and you'll get a crowd for it, but if you ever read the newspapers there when the race is not there, they hardly even mention racing. There's even an article at espn.com today comparing California Speedway to the defunct Ontario Speedway, which went away in the 1970s due to lack of interest from the locals for oval racing.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/colum...e_ryan&id=3257430&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab6pos1
     
  7. the cup

    the cup Member

    Jul 10, 2002
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    I think the time is ripe for the "new IRL" to grab the interest and hearts of a lot of US race fans. I think a large number of people have over-dosed on NASCAR and are ready to watch something else.

    All I hope is that TG decides to get an even number of ovals and road/street courses. If it is heavy on ovals the road/street fans are going to get bored, same for the oval fans if it is heavy on road/street courses. Get an even mix and you are going to interest all US open-wheel fans.

    I'd also like to see more competition when it comes to engines and chassis. It adds a lot more drama and excitement when there is some variety to the cars on the track.

    I'm excited for the future but they are going to have to do things in the right way. Just bring good racing back and the fans will come back!
     
  8. PsychedelicCeltic

    PsychedelicCeltic New Member

    Dec 10, 2003
    San Francisco/London
    I think the West Coast is by and large interested in alternative forms of racing. Drifting, motorcycle racing, off-road racing, et cetera are all quite popular, and things like Formula 1 and Indy have their niche. Long Beach is one of the most successful events in American auto racing and one of Formula 1's major mistakes in their struggle to get noticed in America was leaving Long Beach. That was to Indy's advantage, and Laguna Seca has been a long-term success for IndyCar. OK, the attendance at the end was poor but that was due to the split more than anything else, and the prestige of racing at one of America's crown jewel road racing circuits is worth the slightly lower attendance it would get than San Jose.

    IndyCar Mk II needs to go back to its roots..some core events in the Midwest like Milwaukee, Mid-Ohio, Road America, Belle Isle, Michigan, Cleveland. All core events pre-split that should be back on the schedules. Other than Michigan and Road America they all will be in 2008 and Road America will almost certainly be back next year, and I would bet Michigan would be interested in a race (they were probably the only non-Indy track that put out a press release on the unification!).

    Portland should be retained for the Northwest market as well.
     
  9. the cup

    the cup Member

    Jul 10, 2002
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
  10. Unak78

    Unak78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 17, 2007
    PSG & Enyimba FC
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    AMEN!

    I remember hearing about Tony Stewart winning the Allstate 400 at the Indianapolis Motorspeedway and the commentators talked about how he had always wanted to win at that track. Well, yes he won there, but he won there driving a stock car and that is not what made the IMS famous. That track is the Mecca of Open Wheel Racing and IRL and CART need to reclaim it's greatness. I grew up watching OWR and was never a big fan of NASCAR. Hopefully this is the spark that will bring it back.

    Now how about a merger with Formula 1?:rolleyes:
     
  11. Nanbawan

    Nanbawan Member

    Jun 11, 2004
    Haute Bretagne
    Club:
    Stade Rennais FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Well, I'm not the only Frenchy to think like that ! ;)

    http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/bourdais-slams-champ-car-indycar-merger-deal/
     
  12. Pack87Man

    Pack87Man BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 1, 2001
    Quad Cities
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My opinion is that it's going to be rough early in the season for the former Champ Car teams, but by the time the Indy 500 rolls around, with it's full month to prepare, those teams will be at 99% or better of where they're going. I doubt it'll be a full season before NHL is up there with AGR, Ganassi, and Penske, and KV is around the same level as RLR and Vision.
     
  13. Flyin Ryan

    Flyin Ryan Member

    May 13, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Watched my tape of Wind Tunnel from last Sunday. They had on Tony George, Kevin Kalkhoven, Mario Andretti, Jacques Villenueve, and Robin Miller as guest host. (Robin's the man!)

    Robin Miller started the show with, "It's about damn time."

    After a great montage of the background of the problems, George and Kalkhoven talked about coming together, the difficulties going forward. George and Kalkhoven said 2008 is set in stone, but 2009 is a clean paper, and they'll figure out a long-term plan. George and Kalkhoven both see the model as "CART in their heyday", i.e. late 1980s, early 1990s.

    Villenueve currently had no plans on going to IndyCar. He wanted to do NASCAR for a new challenge.

    Andretti acted as a mediator between George and Kalkhoven. Apparently while mediating on a trail near Denver, he lost half a toenail. So he shed blood for the merger. :D He says that the new IndyCar league needs to stop emulating NASCAR and be its own thing.

    They had clips from Jeff Gordon, Robby Gordon, Patrick Carpentier, and Sam Hornish, all saying the split being over as a good thing.
     
  14. Unak78

    Unak78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 17, 2007
    PSG & Enyimba FC
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    I'm a big fan of road courses. One of my biggest turn offs with NASCAR is the utter preponderance of ovals.
     
  15. Nanbawan

    Nanbawan Member

    Jun 11, 2004
    Haute Bretagne
    Club:
    Stade Rennais FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Nice to read. Hopefully, some ChampCar teams that couldn't make it this year might try in '09 if a new regulation help reshuffle the cards and thus help them find sponsors in the new era of IndyCar.

    Did they anything about the series outside the US or will the new IndyCar try to regroup and strengthen its base in America ? I understand that some kind of foreign dominance would rebuke some fans yet I hope that there will still be races abroad and at least one in Europe. Of course, I'm dealing with 2009 at least...

    Well, it's a good prospect if IndyCar gets a balanced amount of track types between ovals, superspeedways, road courses and city circuits. As far as I'm concerned, I'm looking forward to a series that is both complementary and a refreshing alternative to F1. I'm still a big F1 addict, but when you can have both ! :D

    OTOH, I'd find it difficult to follow a championship with 90% oval tracks. From my perspective, once in a while is fine. And I also think it would not be such a good idea to in a direct head to head with Nascar and F1 for that matter. So, in the end, the new (re)born (again) series should forge its specificity. Being able to propose all kinds of track is certainly an interesting one.
     
  16. Flyin Ryan

    Flyin Ryan Member

    May 13, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From my perspective, CART tried that and failed...miserably.

    You have to realize that most of us grew up watching ovals, and that's the traditional race fan in this country and what they can relate to. I can understand a European viewpoint of disdain toward them, but we're not European and Europeans aren't the ones that pay for tickets to watch either, that's why NASCAR is far and away #1 and IndyCar almost collapsed into nothing. There was no clearer signal of that than Montoya and Villenueve leaving Formula One, bypassing CART and IRL and going to NASCAR. Add on top of that Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, John Andretti, Robby Gordon, Kenny Irwin (RIP), Casey Mears, Kasey Kahne, Jerry Nadeau, Ryan Newman, A.J. Allmendinger, Patrick Carpentier, Sam Hornish, Dario Franchitti, and Scott Speed. Open-wheelers all, both oval and road, that said IndyCar does not work and they went to NASCAR instead.

    I have nothing wrong with road courses, I enjoy watching good ones. But that's "real road courses" like Road America or Mid-Ohio, not these abortions of street courses like San Jose was for CART the past couple years. I can tolerate Long Beach just cause that race has existed for almost 40 years. Surfers Paradise, what's the point? Is IndyCar going to get an Australian fanbase by running over there once a year? They've been running there since 1991 and they haven't yet.
     
  17. Nanbawan

    Nanbawan Member

    Jun 11, 2004
    Haute Bretagne
    Club:
    Stade Rennais FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    That's why I insisted so much on the fact that I was stating my opinion from my POV. I was dealing with a direction I hope this championship would take based on what I'd like to see. What's gonna actually happen isn't in my hands anyway...


    As far as Villeneuve is concerned, it's quite different. His motivation is to be an all round racer, there was no point coming back to IRL/ChampCar for him (been there, done that). This year he'll be in Le Mans racing with Peugeot and in Nascar, that's a personal challenge to fit in something else that single seaters.

    Sure, but the split itself did not help either.
     
  18. Pack87Man

    Pack87Man BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 1, 2001
    Quad Cities
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The season opener is a week away. Let's kick this pig!
     
  19. the cup

    the cup Member

    Jul 10, 2002
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Yea, I'm pumped for the start of the season. It's just weird though not knowing what to expect from the "merger" or whatever it will become known as.

    I guess we won't know anything until the green flag drops and we see how well the Champ Car teams compete. I'll be glued to the tv though I can tell you that. However some of the times the Champ Car teams have posted from Sebring have been very encouraging.
     
  20. Nanbawan

    Nanbawan Member

    Jun 11, 2004
    Haute Bretagne
    Club:
    Stade Rennais FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    People like my compatriots Perera or Montagny (if he gets a seat) did not expect to race on ovals this season when they signed with CCWS teams...They gotta learn fast ! :eek:
     
  21. Flyin Ryan

    Flyin Ryan Member

    May 13, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here is an Indianapolis-based weekly radio show on Indycar/F1. It's on the local ESPN radio affiliate and has an Indy Star racing columnist as one of the two anchors.

    They've only done two shows so far, but they store them like podcasts if you wish to listen to previous ones.

    http://www.1070thefan.com/trackside/
     
  22. Flyin Ryan

    Flyin Ryan Member

    May 13, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [result]Poor Kanaan. He's leading with 8 laps to go and a guy crashes right in front of him. Kanaan just clips him and his right front tire is cocked 45 degrees inward. Way too much stagger. The only way he could win was if the race ended under yellow. But the race restarted with 4 to go and he finishes 8th.

    Top Four (only cars on lead lap): 1. Scott Dixon, 2. Marco Andretti, 3. Dan Wheldon, 4. Helio Castroneves. Very clean race, only 3 cautions. Some of the crossover drivers had a time of it. Only 4 cars wrecked on the weekend, what with the shortage of cars that's not too bad. Graham Rahal on Tuesday, Milka Duno tonight and she collected Ryan Briscoe, and then Ernesto Viso late in the race.[/result]
     
  23. Nacional Tijuana

    Nacional Tijuana St. Louis City

    St. Louis City SC
    May 6, 2003
    San Diego, Calif.
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was sick last night and didn't get to watch. Was it an entertaining race?
     
  24. Pack87Man

    Pack87Man BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 1, 2001
    Quad Cities
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A lot of it was. The ending wasn't, simply due to the fact that the lapped traffic made it too hard for Andretti to get close enough to Dixon. The "transition" teams for the most part kept their noses clean and got some much needed laps under their belts. Tony Kanaan probably has a much different opinion than I do. This race reminded me why I prefer ovals, though. There were several passes for the lead and for other positions on the track. Dan Wheldon was a one man wrecking crew for the first half of the race.
     
  25. the cup

    the cup Member

    Jul 10, 2002
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    I was surprised, it was more entertaining than I thought it was going to be.

    I was hoping at least one of the former Champ Car drivers would have gotten up front to battle a little bit but none of them did, they were all just trying to not crash and get some experience under their belt I guess. Surprisingly the only cars that crashed were experienced IRL drivers, one of the Penske's and Milka Duno (if you can call Duno experienced). Although those crashes could be blamed on them coming up on slower (former Champ Car drivers) cars.

    All in all it was a good start to the season.
     

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