Celtic score. The announcers are screaming "offside should have been called". I'm not so certain. While technically, his toe is beyond the ball, I don't think the LotG were ever intended to be broken down to that level. IMO, this appears to be a classic case of behind the 2ld, but even with the ball. Thoughts? When you AR, do you consider this even or do you think we are to be more nitpicky than that?
The cuts of the grass are six yards in width. The ball appears to be just less than a full yard outside the goal area. The goalscorer has his foot on the goal area and possibly inside it. We're talking about him being about a yard offside. It's only tough--or looks tough--because it's a rare/weird instance where the teammate who last plays the ball is reaching back to play it. So the player and his teammate are actually even with each other at the respective points where they've advanced furthest toward the goal line. But the ball is still about a yard behind that point. If we were talking about an attacker being almost a yard beyond the last defender, this wouldn't even be a question. Don't think it should be any different when we are talking about the location of the ball. Seems like a missed offside.
To me, this is close enough that advantage goes to the attacker. Announcers keep insisting it is offside (they just showed the replay again in the 63rd minute or so). AR seems to be in the right position to make the call and confidently runs up the line as soon as the goal is scored. To me, its close and I probably would keep my flag down.
He is behind the body of the passer. Isn't that what the AR usually looks for? This is a million to one shot: behind the player and in front of the ball.
If I see it, I'm flagging it. It's irrelevant whether he's a yard in front of the ball, or a yard behind the 2LD, either way it is an offside offence. Certainly could have been tough to see where the ball was , and consequently keeping the flag down because the players are even.
Because it's not what you, as the AR, is usually looking for? That seems somewhat lazy and is a dangerous slope to go down. We also don't usually look for the goalkeeper to be the second to last defender, but it happens and we all know we have to adjust. This is not different. Law XI doesn't say "nearer to the goal line than his most advanced teammate who passes him the ball." It says "nearer to this opponent's goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent." Is the goalscorer nearer than second last defender? Check, quite obviously. Is he nearer than the ball? Also, check--by nearly a yard. This is an offside offence. There's no way around it. It might be an understandable miss, because it's such a rare situation. But it's still a miss.
I agree with that. When I said "it's a tough one," I meant tough to see and process in real time, because it's such an unusual situation. And that's not even counting the sight lines ...
I'm not not calling this because I don't think it's offside -- it is. I'm not calling it because I'm not that good. I'm not calling it because I, like Jay pointed out, would have concentrated on the players and not on the ball. I don't think at full speed I would have picked up on the placement of the ball. Just trying to be honest about my abilities.
Ah, ok. Yeah that's much different and I get what you're saying. And obviously a pretty good FIFA missed it here. I just think we can look at peculiar things like this and say, "ok, in the future I've got to be thinking about that in situations that look like this." You may have missed this in the past (I think I might have, too). Hopefully, going forward, we all have a better chance of getting cases like this right. Of course, without the benefit of television replay, we'll probably never know if we do or not.
Does anyone have a decent replay of the initial pass? From the video above and what I remember of the replays, it appears the attacker came back from an offside position just as the defense line stepped up. It's hard to tell from the video above as the ball is already on the way. I'm in agreement for Sport Billy.... it's a weird situation that we don't see everyday in "our" games. I know I probably would have missed it because I would still be trying to process what I saw after the goal was scored. I would LIKE to think I would get, but probably not.
A point to ponder on this one; 'even with the ball' I believe we would most agree is not offside (because by definition 'even with' is not 'nearer to' the goal than the ball) and the ball is narrower than the average player (U-6s don't play #5 balls ;>)). So if the player isn't making himself 'larger' (much like in handling decisions) but is in a normal soccer playing position I am going to suggest that if the player is for example 3x wider than the ball we could draw four lines parallel to the end line to represent those ball widths on the pitch and if the ball is in any of those three areas (or partially in the middle area and partially in the forward or rear area) the player would be 'even with the ball' (as I began) due to their unequal widths. Part of my reasoning is that if the player is nearer the AR than the ball and he can't see the ball the only conclusion he can draw is that they are even, so that should be the outcome for other cases as well even when he can see the ball. I will not even begin to say that is the correct interpretation, especially to the tough crowd here, but as I said I think it is a point to ponder (and who knows, it may be on the next Mensa exam).
EDIT.... (haven't figured out how to do this in the new format yet) Just watched the replay of the game (that my wife so nicely PVRed for me since I working ).. first pass, attacker was definately in an onside position.
I don't think you need a new metric for the ball and don't need to make it complicated: use the same one as for a defender -- for each use the part nearest the goal line. (Just as for players we use the foot/leg/torso/head nearest the goal line when comparing a defender and attacker.)
The position of the player passing the ball is what throws it off. When you just look at the ball and the position of the player scoring, he is a pretty decent amount offside.
I believe you're focusing on the wrong pass. You are being shown the pass (freeze framed at the moment of touch) starting at about 0:02. Notice the passer extending his foot backwards. The receiver is centered on the goal. I feel that I might have caught this. I am surely not going to blame any referee for missing it.