CCL needs to be downsized.

Discussion in 'CONCACAF Champions Cup' started by MRschizoid21, Jan 2, 2010.

  1. MRschizoid21

    MRschizoid21 Member

    Nov 5, 2004
    Brooklyn, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sure many of us can agree that this tournament since the expansion has become too big for its own good. The introduction of the group stage has brought us a tournament that is oversized and becoming a cause of unnecessary fixture congestion.
    It reminds of a post I saw earlier but I can't remember quite where or by whom. It went something like "expansion of a tournament should come after piquing fan interest not the other way around."

    I know that there is no way we're going back to the old format. So, as is tradition on this board, I have an alternate, make that 2 - proposals for this tournament.

    -Both plans involve 23 teams instead of 24. Both USA and Mexico lose a spot and get 3 total. So 22 teams + defending champion automatically qualify.
    We also get rid of the away goals rule in the 2-legged knockout rounds.

    A:
    1st round would be played as it is now with 16 teams playing 2-legged ties and 8 teams eliminated.
    7 teams get a bye into the group stage. (Defending champion + 6 others).
    We make 3 groups of 5, like in the days of the UEFA Cup, and each team plays 2 home games and 2 away games.

    After the group stage is over, the 3 group winners are ranked 1-3 (by pts, GD,etc), 2nd place teams ranked 4-6, the 2 best 3rd placed teams 7 and 8.
    -Quarters are 1v8, 2v7, 3v6, and 4v5 - except in the case where they would cause 2 teams from the same group to face in the quarters.
    Teams ranked 7 and 8 must face teams ranked 1 or 2 - so that would simply mean 1v7 and 2v8 if 1 and 8 or 2 and 7 come from the same group.
    If 3 and 6 are from the same group, then we make 3v5 and 4v6 instead.
    -Semis draw highest remaining seed against lowest remaining seed and two remaining teams facing off.
    - One game final at the home of the higher seed.
    (9 or 11 games to win).


    B:
    Here's something different. This tournament would only have 2-legged ties, except for the final.

    In the first round, 14 teams play (7 advance) and 9 teams get a first round bye.
    The draw would be conducted as follows: The teams that are playing in the first round are split into 2 pots, 1 pot drawn against a 2nd. When, we have a first round matchup, we then immediately draw an opponent for the Round of 16. The team with a bye will host the 2nd leg. We continue this for the first 7 matchups until we are left with the 2 teams who won't play in the first round - so they play each other instead.

    For the remaining 8 teams - the draw will be completely random. They will be drawn into a bracket like the UEFA Champions League does when it draws teams into fixed brackets for the quarters, semis, and final.
    -The final will be a one-game final - the host is determined by the luck of the draw.
    (7 or 9 games to win).
     
  2. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I disagree. I think prize money needs to be increased, but in order to improve, it can't be downsized.
     
  3. art

    art Member

    Jul 2, 2000
    Portland OR
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Disagree. We should be encouraging clubs in this region to grow up into a better competition, even if it takes awhile. MLS clubs are starting to make a higher priority of it it seems, at least a few are, that will help. Frankly the MLS offseasons are too long anyway.

    More prizemoney would definitely be good.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. ZeekLTK

    ZeekLTK Member

    Mar 5, 2004
    Michigan
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Also disagree. I think what hurts the tournament the most is a lack of competitiveness (aka Mexican teams usually dominate). However, this isn't really an issue that CONCACAF can fix themselves - they CAN'T suddenly make the rest of the region magically catch up - and they SHOULDN'T impose restrictions to bring the Mexican teams down to the level of the others.

    Ideally a CONCACAF Champions League semifinals would feature a Mexican side, an American side, a Central American side (like Saprissa or Olimpia), and then a random other team (either another Mexican team or a surprise story like Puerto Rico, etc)... and all four teams would be very strong and competitive, so that any of them would be capable of winning and any of them would be a worthy champion.

    Unfortunately, as can be seen from recent tournaments, this is a long ways off. The last couple tournaments have seen the knockout round as Mexican teams beating anyone they play, and the only time a Mexican team gets knocked off is if they play another Mexican team. Hopefully this trend will be ended in March, but if not we're looking at an all Mexican semifinal! And, once again, very little interest from (or benefit to) the rest of the region.

    But the solution isn't to downsize! Instead, the only way that the other regional teams can catch up with the Mexican teams is by playing them, as often as possible, in competitive environments. I think by adding the preliminary round and the group stage was a huge improvement because it gave more teams access to play against the top level. I think the clubs from Honduras, Panama, and El Salvador have really started to improve just based on the last couple of tournaments. Costa Rica seems to have regressed somehow (I don't understand what happened- Saprissa and Alajuelense used to be just as good as the Mexican clubs and now they aren't even tops in Central America) and Guatemala... well they still have a ways to go. But it is looking better, and maintaining a large tournament is important in regards to raising the level of play across the continent.
     
  5. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Trinidad and Tobago, and Puerto Rico as well. And this is within MLS's lifetime: in the mid-90s, a T&T club didn't deserve to be on the same field as an MLS team, let alone a Mexican one, and Puerto Rico had no club ball to speak of. Now, T&T Pro League teams are 3-for-3 in CCL prelims (two of those against MLS sides), and W Connection very nearly made the quarterfinals; meanwhile, the Islanders are looking to become a regular fixture on the continental level, and now the PRSL has a very good chance of sending a local champion to the CCL for the first time ever.

    Of course, as ZeekLTK mentioned, some federations have inexplicably backslid (worst cases: Costa Rica and Jamaica), but most of the outliers have benefited greatly. Yes, the tournament does need a few improvements, but its size is not a problem.
     
  6. It's called FOOTBALL

    LMX Clubs
    Mexico
    May 4, 2009
    Chitown
    This tourney needs better marketing.

    It should have a song like the UEFA CL has. Make a rock version of it, tongue-in-cheek, in both English and Spanish. Fast guitar riffs, with the singer singing "Champions!" or "Campeones!". It'll give the tourney more personailty.

    Stress the fact that the pot at the end of the rainbow is the CWC. There should be CWC billboards on the sidelines.

    Galavision should use ESPN Latin America's direct feed because ESPNLA is actually there at the stadium with a sideline reporter. Better coverage.

    Broadcasts should mention the history of the Cup more often. It dates back half a century. Not too bad. More historical stats would be better in CCL broadcasts.

    Have a halftime show during the CCL Final 2nd leg. Pomp and circumstance is very important in the marketing of a sports event
     
  7. ja2ny

    ja2ny Member

    Aug 5, 2008
    long Island,N.Y.
    Of course, as ZeekLTK mentioned, some federations have inexplicably backslid (worst cases: Costa Rica and Jamaica), but most of the outliers have benefited greatly. Yes, the tournament does need a few improvements, but its size is not a problem.[/QUOTE]


    How as Jamaica backslide when we haven't been participating in it?
     
  8. Intru

    Intru Member

    Mar 16, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    Puerto Rico Islanders

    How as Jamaica backslide when we haven't been participating in it?[/QUOTE]

    And thats not backsliding?, since the change in format Jamaican teams has not participated at all.
     
  9. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seriously, ja2ny, where have the Jamaican teams been? :confused: I mean, if Haiti and the Lesser Antilles countries can afford to participate in the CFU Cup, I have no idea why Jamaica's been opting out.
     
  10. DCUdiplomat96

    DCUdiplomat96 Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Tournement is really jacked up cause the Champions league starts in august in the middle of the season. MLS teams are trying to chase playoff spots.. then when the elimination rounds come along its preason fro MLS, all together the european style of "playoffs" sucks.
     
  11. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ...now that I think about it, in a way it helps maintain parity in MLS as well. If the better teams qualify for this tournament and aren't given any extra resources whatsoever (same deal, to a lesser extent, for those playing in Superliga), then they tire in their playoff chase and give others a chance at getting farther with their late-season run.
     
  12. DCUdiplomat96

    DCUdiplomat96 Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well teams operate on a 12 month bases anyway so I assume MLS`teams who are in the CCL should have contingencies in place.. but for columbus case they need to market the games, FSC has failed as well
     
  13. ja2ny

    ja2ny Member

    Aug 5, 2008
    long Island,N.Y.

    I read an article if can find it I'll post. The artilce indicated that it did that make sense financially for the two clubs that qualify for the CCL to participate. This was last year i don't have any updates, but if i do get some I'll post it.
     
  14. PorMisAwakatls

    PorMisAwakatls New Member

    Nov 26, 2008
    Teotihuacan
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico

    Yup... the MLS has allowed the players & families to sell fund raising cookies & chocolate bars at the stadium... sharing the profits with their team but not with other league teams.
     
  15. Mr. P Mosh

    Mr. P Mosh Member+

    Aug 10, 2009
    Monterrey, NL, Mex
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    In the rest of the world we do it that way, MLS deal with it. :rolleyes:
     
  16. Flipstar508

    Flipstar508 Member+

    Sep 7, 2006
    Worcester, MA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some MLS fans need to deal with it. If MLS wanted to deal with it they would expand the roster sizes and salary cap.
     
  17. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly - why not have a simple rule that gives a bit higher cap and more roster spots (to be used in all competitions, including league play) for teams that qualify for international tournaments, weighed towards where they qualify? For example (and I'm pulling the numbers out of _nowhere_, so this doesn't reflect at all on feasibility), $80k and 2 extra spots for Superliga, $120k and 3 spots for CCL prelims, and $200k/5 spots for qualifying directly to the group stage. That way the teams wouldn't be almost obligated to burn out at the end of the season, and the spots would be merit-based.
     
  18. ja2ny

    ja2ny Member

    Aug 5, 2008
    long Island,N.Y.


    PLCA teams pull out of Caribbean Champions Cup

    Tuesday, March 16, 2010


    The Premier League Clubs Association (PLCA) will not participate in this year's edition of the Caribbean Cup Competition staged by The Confederation of North, Central American and Caribbean Association of Football (CONCACAF).
    This was stated by the chairman of the PLCA, Edward Seaga in a letter to Jack Warner, president of CONCACAF. In explaining the decision, Seaga said that the PLCA teams were not in a
    position to finance the cost of participation, which varies from a high of $5,967,000 (should a local team advance to other group stage where it would have to host the participating teams) to a low of $1,966,500 (per team/per trip for preliminary round).......... cont.@http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport/PLCA-teams-pull-out_7489154
     
  19. DCUdiplomat96

    DCUdiplomat96 Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Well where is the extra$$$ gonna come from?? the teams barely making even, its not like fans are comming in droves to games..
     
  20. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok then, follow-up question: how does Jamaica not have the money to participate/host games, but Trinidad and Puerto Rico do? :confused:
     
  21. Flipstar508

    Flipstar508 Member+

    Sep 7, 2006
    Worcester, MA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A salary cap is a teams spending limit. Teams don't have to spend all the money they're given. It's not like I'm saying a cap of 50 million. If the roster sizes expand the salary cap will have to also. If we had a 4 or 5 million dollar cap with 28 players on each roster we would be doing better than we are now.
     
  22. DCUdiplomat96

    DCUdiplomat96 Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Still even if the league expanded the Cap maybe get a couple decent high profile players but still the teams gotta get butts in seats and more exposure thru marketing.. MLS has done a horrible jobs in these areas, MLS is near non existant in Most of the Country. Its barely on national TV and there is a lack of presence mainstream wise... also they are competing with MLB NFL NBA other pro leagues and the NCAA... sports fans have alot of options here. MLS Knows this(I wish FIFA does, but they dont respect the American sports scene) MLS has to step up outside thier relm catering to just "soccer fans".
     
  23. Of_Wires_And_Birds

    Mar 20, 2009
    Edinburg, Texas!
    Club:
    CDSC Cruz Azul
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    I dk about Puerto Rico, but for Trinidad, there is a man who's name is Jack that probably makes things happen for them
     
  24. Intru

    Intru Member

    Mar 16, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    Puerto Rico Islanders
    Well simple PR has more money than most other Caribbean nation, so Jack helps us out. A strong PR could mean a strong money maker and ally for uncle Jack in the future.
     
  25. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And then Haiti (before this year, of course)? Yes, soccer is a bigger sport there than in Jamaica where it coexists with cricket, but there's no way the FHF has more resources or money-making potential than its Jamaican counterparts.
     

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