CBA Negotiations

How hard is it to believe that this is the first step by the Union in trying to crack the Single Entity structure , you don't think that's their ultimate goal. The MLSPU wants Single Entity Dead, they tried it once in the courts and now I think they are trying to setup a case in the Future when they have the money to challenge MLS in the courts.

 

If it's gonna happen it's gonna happen. Worry about that later. Season is supposed to start in a month. Perhaps both sides should negotiate these things more than a couple months out from the deadline.

 

I'm not entirely sure how this relates to the upcoming negotiations, but it at least seems on topic. How the hell does SKC still have rights to Hercules Gomez when he last played in MLS in 2009? I thought the statute of limitations (whatever the term is for how long a team holds a player's rights) ran out after 3 years.

 

Was he the guy that had "Herculez" on the back of his jersey at the same time the league told us our player couldn't have his nickname on the back of his jersey or am I confusing Herculezes?

 

Yep, and SJ had Clarence Goodson's rights as well, after he spent 6 years in Europe. And NE had Parkhurst's rights as well for 6 years after he left. It's totally fair though. SINGLE ENTITY BRO!!!

 

Of course they want to "crack" the structure of the league.

But everybody needs to keep in mind that MLS isn't a local soccer league who can sit down and re write their charter.

This is a business capitalized at around $2 billion, with hundreds of millions in contracts with sponsors and broadcasters and with a corporate structure owned by shareholders.

To change the Songle Entity system would involve nothing less than blowing up MLS and starting over. Split up the money, cancel the contracts, deal with the lawsuits, close the books and start up a new league from scratch.

Maybe some players believe that is possible or even likely. But it's not. Not now, not in five years, not in twenty.

MLS LLC is a sports corporation. It is what it is. Anyone who doesn't like it shouldn't have signed a personal services contract with it.

As for taking MLS to court, we're talking a years long process costing fifty million dollars with - whatever they may think - a very iffy outcome. Odds are they'd lose anyway. It's a big dollar roll of the dice. They'd do better just taking the money to Vegas.

 

I don't understand why people think Single entity is up for debate. The owners are going to continue with what has made them viable, profitable, and insulated from the weaknesses of other U.S. sports and soccer leagues around the world.

Single Entity is not going away.

 

We all agree on that (for now). You can have 'freedom of movement' and single entity though. Like someone earlier said, if the players remain signed with MLS, but are allowed to move within the league and all the re-entry drafts and whatnot are done away with, what's the problem? It's still single entity, but more freedom. I really don't understand why people are having trouble understanding this idea. Player contracts stay the same as they are now, but owners and league agree to do away with (for example) teams holding player's rights for 5 or 6 years. If you decide not to pick up a players option, he should be allowed to go to whichever team is willing to pay his salary. With the salary cap still in place, LA won't be able to sign everyone.

Like with Arrieta. He's done here, you really think LA or NY will sign him? Hell no. I'd be nice if he could chose between teams like Colorado, Houston, Chicago, RSL, Orlando, NE, etc.

And I see people worrying LA and NY will get everyone. Again, how has that worked out for NY so far in their, ya know, entire history? Or any LA or NY pro sports team right now?

Single entity and faux freedom of movement can exist (barring actual legal stuff, which no one has presented actual evidence pointing one way or the other so far IIRC).

 

...isn't that the re-entry draft? The rules in place allow for movement to any team should that team actually want them.

Conceptually, it is difficult to get past the idea of "a player being able to play where he wants to" and does that team even want them? Then, how much value is a team going to place on you if you are simply a walk on opposed the team putting an investment into you?

Funny side note...In trying to find the MLS rules, I came across an old analogy from and ESPN FC article, circa 2010 authored by some hack named..."Freddie Ljungberg"....Imagine you work at Burger King and you get sacked. Now, you want to get another job at McDonald's, but you're not allowed to unless McDonald's compensates Burger King. It seems absurd..."

 

That's a terrible analogy.

 

I never said I had trouble with that idea, but MLS probably doesn't want its own teams competing for employees which will drive up wages and increase overall costs. Businesses usually frown on things like that when they can use internal controls to keep those expenses down.

 

How about employees of YUM Brand subsidiaries competing with each other for positions with KFC, Taco Bell, and Pizza Hut which are all under the roof of YUM Brands? Why any company would allow increased competition and costs among it's own subsidiaries? It's hard enough to compete with external competition.

 

And its a great example of why reasoning by analogy is foolish and manipulative thing to do. Just pick your desired conclusion, think of something that your feelings tell you works similarly, explain how that unrelated thing works, and voila! You've made your point without actually discussing the complexities of the issue at hand.

I hate it. And there has been too much of it in this thread. Please don't be tempted to use analogies on this topic.

 

How is the re-entry draft freedom of movement? The player isn't freely moving to the club, he's being told he has no choice but to play for them.

 

Except MLS teams are *not* comparable to Burger King and McDonalds at the same time--instead they are franchises of the *same* corporation. It's not Burger King vs McDonalds. It's BK vs BK or McDs vs McDs. Just because Ljungberg is a good soccer player doesn't mean he has any idea about business. The women tried to run their own league. Where is it now??

The closer analogy is allowing McDonalds franchises to create their own sandwiches and set their own prices in competition with other McDonalds franchises, as long as they give the same profit to corporate. Ain't gonna happen. *That's* what single entity means. Heck some Subway franchisees were complaining about losing money on $5 Footlongs during one of those promotions. They still had to sell them (and they weren't even owned by the main corporation).

 

Yeah, because players like Jairo Arrieta and Eric Gehrig are gonna turn the league upside down. When was the last time a player like Bradley, Altidore, Beckham, Donovan, Henry, etc signed for an MLS team, then moved directly to another MLS team? We're talking about squad players, bench warmers, and the occasional decent starter that should have freedom of movement, maybe someone like an Ethan Finlay.

 

I think terrible is being charitable about it. But then you're a much nicer guy than I am.

Even so, fast food aside, lots and lots of jobs ask you to sign a non compete clause as a condition of employment. I've had them and I bet a goodly number of you guys have as well and the fact is that if such a restriction is part of your employment contract then you CAN'T just hop from one outfit to another.

And that leaves aside the basic concept that, as a single entity LLC, MLS is all one big outfit. So you're not really trying to go from one company to a competitor, you're demanding the right to be transferred from the Chicago office to the one in Orlando.

Go try that with your boss and let me know how it goes. Be sure to tell him that you don't understand why he gets to deny you the right to work at the Seattle office if you damned well want to.

I will say again and again and again: the standard terms of emplyment for people who play in MLS includes a restriction on team-to-team movement, It's not something they hide, it's right there in black and white.

If you don't like it, and don't feel it's fair or whatever THEN DON'T SIGN THE DAMNED CONTRACT.

Try your luck elsewhere.

 

I tend to agree with Bill.

At the end of the day you don't have to work for MLS. There are other options. They may not be what they want them to be but other options do exist. In this country and in others.

I also think that the union is likely posturing for future CBA negotiations this time around as well. Perhaps by pushing for free agency they are laying the groundwork for when that might actually be a reasonable solution down the line.

I think that an increased cap and an increased floor would be in the interest of both the league and the players. If I'm the union I also push for an increase in guaranteed contract years and reduced number of league held option years. Those certainly aren't original thoughts on my part.

Something that I have been noticing thus far as well is the lack of real support for the players cause. I tend to side with the league and much of what I have seen on the Big Soccer boards shows that the majority fall into that category as well. Anyone see differently?

 

We're talking about everybody. The CBA effects all players. You can't just pick the scenarios that fit your argument.

 

I've noticed that too. It's a strong contrast with four years ago when the boards were very much pro-player.

But back then the bottom salary was, IIRC, $11,500 or $13,000 depending and clearly that was insulting, although it was repeatedly pointed out that very very few guys actually were paid that little.

Much harder to get exercised about entry level employees getting $36,500. Compared to other sports it's peanuts, but if you're careful or have a roommate or two or a wife who works you can afford a movie and a [pizza once in awhile and who among us hasn't been there and done that?

Bottom line, you're 20-22 years old and being paid to play soccer. A hell of a lot of people would switch places with them.

 

Get with the times Archer!

 

I agree %100.

Then you failed. It's not the players demanding transfers, it's the 'boss' at the 'home office' telling him, "your services are no longer required. We're letting you go. Instead of you getting to pick where to go to start fresh though, you'll get told where to go. And if you don't like that you can leave the country (f*cking exile, really?), but when you come back in 6 years, you'll still have to deal with us, bitch".

Bit of a difference.

 

Yeah, but when is the last time someone like Henry went through the re-entry draft? Big players don't move within MLS. Who was the last one to do that? Carlos Ruiz?

 

Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration but your point is well taken.

While the more egregious abuses are more or less as you say, the players themselves say the problem is that they want to have a choice where they play. As in, near family, grandma, warm weather, familiar territory, whatever.

I would have traded five years of my life for the chance to work nearer my Mom is her last years. It's not a choice most of us get. We go where the work is and build our lives there.