If the mods are ok with it I thought we could have a separate thread just for these talks so we don't pollute other topics. The players have come out and said they are willing to strike if they don't get the deal they are looking for. The owners, as expected have said pretty much nothing. 5 years ago I think the CBA was signed like 5 days before the start of the season. With the new TV deal, sponsorship agreements, and ownership groups I got to think this negotiation will be harder than the last. The players are going to want a bigger piece of the pie that Don Garber says is already gone. http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/...trike-over-free-agency-as-cba-talks-continue/
They won't get free agency. It is impossible in a "single entity" system, and MLS is not givng that up. If they did, the league would be dead--or much, much smaller--in 5 years.
An example: Kei Kamara sucks in England, so he comes back to MLS. He ends up coming here. Why? Allocation order. Now, let's imagine there is free agency (this is assuming things like allocation and discovery signings also go away as well, but the point still stands either way). Kamara wants to come back. The word was he either wanted to return to SKC or go to Vancouver. So he would have went there. Let's say though, he wanted to go to LA, RBNY, Seattle, TFC, etc. I don't know what their salary cap situations are, but I'm sure they're most likely up against the cap. So how in the hell would one of those teams fit Kamara under their cap? Imagine if Will Johnson or Gyasi Zardes or Kyle Beckerman become free agents. They all probably make just under DP level money. With teams that already have 3 DP's and another 2 or 3 guys on good money (let's say 200-300k after being bought down with allocation money) how in the hell can they sign even more players? Look at LA and Seattle's rosters, can they really get better? Maybe one player. I don't see much changing for the big teams. The only teams that would worry me would be TFC, LA, Seattle, and NYCFC. And that being said, terrible management negates mega millions. If there is still a salary cap and all that, then signing a team full of MLS all stars just isn't realistic.
It's not impossible at all. The league could easily agree to free agency after a certain number of years in the league and compensate teams that lose free agents. That's how the NFL does it. How would MLS have been hurt if Brian Carroll, Jon Busch, and Danny O'Rourke got to choose their next teams instead of going through the re-entry draft?
Does Coke have free agency for Mello Yellow? Single entity is more like Coke Inc. with various brands than it is like a sports league. That's what single entity means. There is little to no reason for the owners to give that up. MLS isn't a league--it's a company. And no *US* league has true free agency. Again--I'm not saying it is right or what I would choose to do. But it worked. We have a viable, stable league. That's something this country really hasn't had before. That won't be given up easily, and the players are foolish if they think it will be.
Single entity is designed to keep costs down, so teams don't bid against each other and cause wages (cost) to rise. That's why there is an allocation order- so the league can negotiate with one player instead of a player playing two teams against each other. It will be a cold day in hell before the owners let go of this business model. They were all sold on the business model and it was one of the main reasons that they invested in the league. While I understand why the players want free agency, I'm not sure if this should be the hill on which they make their final stand. And let's remember, while they say they want to be able to decide where they want to play, this is all about money. I'd be willing to be there isn't a single player in the league (save for the 6-7 DPs making seven figures a year) who would rather play for Miami and get paid $100k over playing for $300k and living in Kansas.
I highly doubt that. Maybe 250k vs 300k, not 100k though. And you say "this is all about money" like it's a bad thing, when just a few sentences before you said: So it's ok for the multi millionaires and billionaires that own teams to be penny pinchers, but when Joe Blow wants to make 75k instead of 50k, so he can actually live in his own apartment with having to live without two or three other teammates, he's the greedy SOB? How's that work?
I think the rank and file MLS players are the ones who need to see the improvement in this CBA. I couldn't care less about adding DP's or what their cap hit will be. Minimum salaries need to be raised by a substantial amount. I am not a lawyer but many people say free agency is not possible inside the single entity structure. I don't understand that exactly. Maybe I don't completely understand it. If MLS is a large company and each team is like a department inside the company. People get transferred, take new jobs, etc inside companies all the time. At the end of the day they still work for same company. Why couldn't MLS do the same?
Why should the minimum be increased? All these college graduates should be able to walk into any job if they want an increase in salary.
Most of the players should be worried about the minimum; those players might like free agency so they can come to places like Columbus and KC though not away from them. I really do think free agency would hurt teams with multiple max players more than it would hurt small markets. Until the cap goes up enough mid level talent is better off somewhere where cost of living isn't prohibitive. This has been my opinion every time the DP rule has been expanded but I really hope the players don't push for more of those, I don't see why they should, more spots shouldn't be added until most teams in the league use all of theirs. It doesn't matter to me teams like the Crew, KC, or Portland go after the same level guys as LA, Seattle, and Toronto but the spots should be used before adding more. I hope the players ask for a salary floor; I know the cap isn't that high but how far below the cap do you think we were last year? Also just getting it in will be useful for future negotiations when the cap does start to become significant money compared to other American leagues even if that is twenty years from now. I hope there is some discussion about every team getting a USL Pro team; more MLS affiliates means more roster spots for players to fill. The only other thing I'd like to see unfortunately the players union would have no reason to fight for; easier entry for younger Americans. The way we do it now outside of MLS academies isn't very good but these are guys that would take jobs from those at the table so they wouldn't be for it.
If they just increase the minimum to $50k, it wouldn't cost MLS much more than they were expecting to pay next year. League minimum salaries have been increasing by a certain percentage every year (something like 4.5%...not sure the exact number). If they just raise the $36,500 minimum to $50k, it really wouldn't cost the league much extra (we're talking like $60k). Free Agency is the biggest issue and I think the players will get it. The only real argument against it is "well we've never done that before." That's the same argument that was applied to segregated water fountains. With the salary cap in place, the system won't topple.
I think the league says it will violate single-entity structure. No idea if it's true but that is the golden goose.
BS. MLS owns everything. They can make any rules they want (and do, not with FA though, interesting...)
I won't get into the merits or cons of any type of free agency, but I will say these two points: 1. If the players strike, and it's a prolonged period of time, this league will die. Soccer is not mature enough in this country to survive a work stoppage. 2. A player that makes the final roster should make more than someone that just graduated business school as an accountant making $50k/year.
Their argument within that is that if there is free agency, then teams will have to *gulp* COMPETE AGAINST EACH OTHER!! Can you imagine if MLS actually had teams having to battle each other for something?! What a catastrophe that would be. Ya know, except for all those games.
My belief is that the skill level needed to make a top tier professional sports team in this country SIGNIFICANTLY exceeds the skill needed to graduate from THE Ohio State University with a 3.25 GPA.
But MLS, while the top league in this country, is not top tier at all on the world market. Wrong comparison. Not that I'd be against the minimum coming up a bit.
It's not the owners here. It's what the team makes in income that counts. Or are you saying that businessmen who own the league are required to lose money to give players and fans what they want? That's crazy too. Not that some guys haven't done just that. The Jackets are an example. I'm not sure they've *ever* broken even. Maybe now with the city owning the Arena, but not by much. I've seen it happen, regularly, in Europe--and many of those teams have gone bankrupt and/or ceased to exist, especially when that rich person falls on hard times or they get cauhgt by the tax man. Now I expect the owners are doing better than they say they are, so there's wiggle room in the negotiations--but at the same time, the only way anyone is getting rich out of MLS is by expansion fees. Except maybe Seattle.
The market should dictate, except that there's only one top tier professional soccer league in this country. Hence the need for the CBA and an established minimum. Again, just my belief. If you believe that the skills required to do credits and debits exceed the skills required to fill a roster spot, that's totally cool. I just know that there are tons and tons of accounting students (some with better, some worse GPAs) and tons and tons of employment options. But soccer will continue to face an uphill struggle in this country when players can go make more beans counting them than playing pro ball.
There are hundreds of professional leagues around the world - players should not expect a minimum when the global market is what dictates wages. It dictates the wages for the best players, it should also dictate for everyone else. Also, no one is forcing them to play soccer. They can only expect, what 15 years playing soccer? Bean counters on the other hand?