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Discussion in 'Paris Saint Germain' started by SportBoy333, Sep 6, 2007.
Here is an example I think on why French teams are at a huge disadvantage against their European brethren.
You take a team like PSG. They are a big club. They have money, play in one of the largest European cities and have great support. Despite that they still have to wait 4 years before they can compete for a championship ! That is kinda insane if you think about it for a club of that stature.
You take a large club from Italy, Spain, England, or Germany. Lets say they have a down season like Bayren Munich did. You think they have to wait 4 years and slowly rebuild to become a championship contender ? Heck No ! They have a bad year and then go and spend whatever it takes to get back on top. None of this 4 or 5 year plan stuff that French teams(even the larger ones) have to do.
Alot of people think PSG should be a large European club and that is very hard because they play in France and have to play by different rules than other teams in Europe do.
Even if PSG is champion in 4 years what makes anyone think that they will be able to maintain being a top 3 team year after year like they should be.
They win 1 title in 4 years and the good players leave and then they are right back to rebuilding again with another 4 year plan. Thats not fair and not right. They should have the chance to maintain their status should they get there. France needs to wise up and change to make it easier for the big teams to stay big. Its for the good of the game and the good of the league. I wanna see a PSG team in Europe that can compete with the Chelsea's of the world and not be totally outclassed by them like back in 05. I want that for all the French teams that make it and deserve it. These French teams do a poor job of marketing outside of France in order to increase their revenus. They never learn their lesson. Your'e at a disadvantage against the rest of Europe so you think youd be trying like heck to find ways to bring more money in. The US is a huge untapped market that French teams dont seem interested in. How about PSG playing an exibition match during the summer at the Superdome in New Orleans. Makes sense to me. At least try somethingto increase awareness in the US.
I agree, though what's shocked me more about PSG is their inability to grab on to guys in the surrounding region to make their centre de formation. Ben Arfa, Mavuba, Dia, Diaby, Lassana Diarra, Bocaly and Itandje are all from the Parisian region. Lyon always appear to have a chokehold on guys around there (Benzema, Giuly, and Kanouté would be examples). Same with Nantes (Toulalan, Landreau and Emerse Faé). I mean, yes, PSG do have decent guys in their centre de formation like Sakho and N'Gog, though I've always wondered why they can't corner all the guys who develop in the region.
If youre a PSG fan you shouldnt have to wait "4 years." You should be a title contender every season but we all know thats not the reality. French football is so screwed up. If we didnt have OL carrying the flag we'd be complete sh*t. Juventus goes down to serie B comes right back up and is still an instant title contender. Can you imagine if PSG was sent to Ligue 2 and then came right back up ? It be a 10 year plan probably before they could win anything.
As a PSG fan reading that made me sick.
For a club amongst the biggest 3 in France to not expect a title challenge for 4 years is ridiculous. How can anyone at the club be happy to be behind teams like Lille, Toulouse, Sochaux etc. for 3 years!!
And it sounded like the plan was to win with the current youth players, so what happens when they get sold off to bigger teams?? Wait another 10 years for the next batch of players???
This club should be aiming to challenge for the title every other season.
I almost feel as if now mediocrity will be accepted, as long as they are making a profit. They have no ambition to be a top club in France. It's disgusting.
whoa, let's not blow the plot here. Judging from his words, mediocrity isn't being embraced, but rather it is the hard reality of the situation. Just look at our finishes in the past seasons, the number of management changes, our transfer policy, and I believe only the recent step up of PSG's youth academy to the top level (which would probably partly explain seb's question). Cayzac isn't some idiot who wants the nestle a nice cozy position for the club at around midtable. Let's be serious here. He's looking at the situation fairly rationally and calmly.
If you read the article, it's abundantly clear that he's aiming for success. Is he saying that the club isn't going to play the best it can this season? Absolutely not. Realistically, however, this club isn't going to be contending for the championship until it can get its act together everywhere on the pitch, and that sure as hell isn't going to happen before the end of the year. For example, our reliance on a mediocre and tired strikeforce. With the tight checkbooks of the investors as well as the amount of time needed for youngsters to develop, building an effective team from front to back is a longterm project. That is why saying that we're aiming to get the championship right now is simply a load of hot air that any irresponsible chairman would probably say to get the support of the fans. The modesty and honesty demonstrated in Cayzac's assessment is far more encouraging.
It doesn't seem like there are any immediate goals for the season. Having a 5 year plan works, especially if you're Josef Stalin. But, how about focusing on a solid Top 5 finish with a cup win? Get into Europe somehow instead of planning on winning the league out-and-out.
SuperSeb was talking about the great job Lyon and Nantes does in finding talent. OM has a foothold in Northern and Central Africa. During the days of Luis Fernandez, we had the Brazilian rush. Moral of the story, is find a place to get talent and do it. Maybe a bit more proactive with the Parisians, but I'm thinking more of Eastern Europe. Right now, CSKA Moscow has Daniel Cavalho and Vagner Love. If PSG had a bit more ambition, they could pull a Brazilian or African from Russia or Ukraine, because Moscow and Donetsk aren't real touristy places.
I agree with urtel. Get a place to recruit guys, doesn't matter where or how, though get them so that even if you mess up, they are "cheap" enough so that it doesn't devastate the finances majorly. However, to give Cayzac a bit of credit, I believe he's doing something correct.
Consider OL, the "dynasty" that they are. How did they start out? What really were the foundations of that dynasty?
Breaking it down to the basics of how they assembled their team, it's not that dissimilar to what PSG are trying to do.
1. Defensive midfield. Often overlooked, defensive midfield I think has really been a huge factor in the success of OL, as well as the NT, of course. Look at every team OL have had in this stretch. First it was Dhorasoo, whom OL successfully converted into an effective distributor. Then Diarra came in to add a more physical impact. The year after, Essien. Diarra and Essien dominated in midfield for a couple of seasons. When Essien left, Pedretti was acquired. When Diarra left, both Toulalan and Alou Diarra were bought. I think Cayzac knows strong teams have to have a strong defensive midfield. Hence in the past year, they've acquired Clément and Digard, neither of whom will have turned 30 in 5 years.
2. Goalkeeper who will actually stay in L1. Grégory Coupet has been one of the constants in the OL dynasty, mainly because of his consistency as well as his leadership. Also, he was already advanced in his career when the dynasty started, so really not that many of the "big" clubs were after him, and he also realized that to get any shot at the NT, he had to be a certain starter. Mickaël Landreau is actually in almost the same type of situation. He's better off in L1 than heading to a big team where he won't be a guaranteed starter. Also, he provides leadership and is reliable, similar to Coupet.
3. Emphasis on acquiring players who are 20-25. Almost all of OL's stars were 20-25 when they joined (the only exception I am able to think of is Cris). This is a good idea for a plethora of reasons. One of them is that if they want to leave, they will command a high sum, which can be used to buy more players to keep the squad quality consistent. I think this had to be one of the big mistakes post-Ronaldinho. I mean PSG did go after guys who were 20-25, though the majority were marginal guys at best, who hadn't shown they had been able to do it at the highest level. On the other hand, Essien and Malouda were breakout stars the season before they signed. Toulalan had 3 solid years as a starter at Nantes. None of this can really be said about the likes of Baning, Hellebuyck, Traoré, and so on. Now, it appears different since Digard was one of the best players in L2 while being a starter in Espoirs. Bourrillon was a starter in one of the stingiest defenses at Rennes, while also having some experience with Les Bleuets.
4. An actual plan. Now this is a controversial one since anybody can say they have a plan, and as seen here, many have already derided Cayzac's as rubbish. However, Aulas definitely had a plan, and eventually it worked out. The key, I think, is to stick to it. What I would be worried about if I were a PSG fan is if management begins to make stupid mistakes again, like giving a Kalou a huge contract, signing an injury-prone Saha, buying Jean-Alain Boumsong, etc. I think if Cayzac sticks to his plan, and as many already have noted, attempt to get a base where there'd be a constant stream of rising stars, then it could work out.
You bring in American owners who have tight checkbooks and English teams bring in American owners who have open checkbooks. There's your problem right there.
I still think what Cayzac has said is not encouraging for the future of PSG.
First was the lightening of the wage bill. What he was eluding to there was trying to get rid of Yepes, Gallardo and Pauleta, three of our best players. Is this going to be the model he is going to run the club on in the future, no stars in the team?? It's all very well talking about younger players but the simple truth is we have 3 young players up front in Diane, Frau and Luyindula and none off them are as effective as Pauleta. Pauleta has been the best player at the club for the past 4 years, he almost won us a title not too long ago. However if it is up to Cayzac we will not have a Pauleta in the future, instead we will have young ineffective players because at least they are cheap!
It sounds like he's trying to build success on the Ajax model and we can all see how successful their policy of building a team on youngsters is going, with the lack of trophies and the exodus of their best players like sjineder and Van Der Vaart on an annual basis.
Personally, I don't think it's unrealistic to expect a title challenge next year as there is hardly a mass of top teams in France to over-haul.
Also he hasn't said his ambitions after this title, I hardly think we can expect OL style dominance from the way he is talking.
We also must remember that these plans are usually a little ambitious and so if our ambitious aim is to win one championship in 4 years I don't see how I should find this encouraging.
OL's budget keeps going up year after year so 4 years from now the gap between OL's budget and PSG's budget will still be significant.
They have no choice to do it with youth. Its the only way. The only other way would be if a rich foreign owner came in with an open checkbook but we know that cant and wont happen.
That's a rational analysis; I, however, enjoy being irrational!!!!
I want victory right now!!!
Seriously...the commitment to the youth academy is one of the ways in which success might be sustained, once achieved...I'm happy to see work in this area.
Additionally, there are EU/French bargains to be had...a focus on results-based scouting would also work...we need to be thinking about contracts and availabilities for NEXT YEAR'S SUMMER MERCATO as well as the Jan transfer window. PSG's mid-term and long-term planning MUST be a robust as their short-term adjustments...if Cayzac is as focused on that as he should be, we'll be alright.
Still want to win right now tho'....
PSG is a very attractive club, situated in the capital, with a vibrant (if somewhat rowdy) fanbase. They have the third highest budget in France and now possess one of the best young managers out there. In theory, PSG have everything they needs to succeed...and yet they don't.
PSG need to get a better recruiter. Someone who wouldn't make buys like Kalou and Traore and can evaluate actual talent. And as much as I like Le Guen, I don't think he's always the best judge of talent. In the past, PSG let some great talents slip by and somehow end up with the worst players out there. It's baffling, really.
Le Guen has only been at PSG for less than a year now, and his one buy this offseason looks quite good (Digard). Getting Jérémy Clément was a good idea too. Again, I think the emphasis on acquiring players who are 20-25 is key, as I mentioned earlier in this thread.
A club like PSG should not have to wait for 4 years to be Champion , it's so sad and pathetic that teams like Lille , Sochaux , Toulouse can all finish above us and play in Europe regularly while we fight for relegation . This is why French teams will never be a force in Europe . Take Toulouse as an example , I had no doubt in my mind that they'll end up getting knocked out in the qualifying round , where other teams like Monaco , even ourselves could've done much better but Toulouse still finished above us in the league .
In Europe there is never a consistent teams playing every season apart from Lyon , while other countries in Europe are always have the same teams and this way get stronger !
Monaco or PSG wouldnt haven beaten Liverpool either. They might have put up a little better showing than Toulouse did but thats it. Toulouse finished 3rd because they were very lucky remember ? There was a whole chain of events that fell perfectly in place for them. Every Ligue 1 follower knew they werent ready for the Champions League at this time.
Wouldn't PSG and Monaco be higher ranked anyway ? Which means them two teams would've advoided a strong team like Liverpool . I agree Toulouse were lucky in some parts last season but some of their results are very impressing .
I still stand by we need the top teams qualifying for the Champions League every season , it's important .
Maybe. I'm not sure.
I've been saying that for a while now ever since Lille started sneaking into the top 3 and I got criticized for it because they said Lille "earned" their spot and the other teams didnt. I have since softened my stance on the subject. I dont really care any more. If we have a team like Nancy in the Champions League next year I wont like it but Im not gonna stress over it.
I think PSG would do well in Europe. They just fumble domestically. They are our "Liverpool."
I would add Monaco to teams whose domestic form is intermittent, but they do brilliantly in Europe.