Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II Of course I'm insulting you, because you are insulting other people. You are dismissing their arguments, I have proven that you are infact not mature and your posts are rather inept. Furthermore you're long statements are rather contrived. You have too much to say, without saying much at all. There isn't enough time in a day to even remotely convince me you can make an argument to stay this long on this site all day long. Save your bullshit for someone else. That is your opinion that he is the worst of "your" current attacking options. That is your opinion that his overall lack of performance and end product are erratic. You are just making grievous statements, without even supporting up your claims and when you do give some sort of proof like the stats, it only proves what a stellar player has contributed. My opinion stands that he's given more than enough in the time offered him. If I'm being called a liar and and ignorant by you on the subject, then I will simply call you a stupid idiot. Honestly, if you can't write a paragraph without speaking as a normal person would I will call a mod to have your manners of speech reviewed. I hold no shame in calling out your demeanour of speech and having my own posts reviewed as well. Continuing the topic at hand: Rooney has been sparatic this season, he is a clutz and a pole thumper. Ronaldo, your great player, couldn't make a pass or be consistent when needed. The entire world thinks of Ronaldo as a joke this season, because he's been off game. Berbatove and Park have been average at best and you are comparing these players to Tevez as being more of an attacking threat than him. Dear Manchester United fan, I saw both games on television and 15 minute highlights. Inter clearly had the better chances but did not put them away, Manchester had better finishing therefore deserved to win. The first encounter was quite even, hence the score, the second encounter was a greater match. Inter had the better chances, convincingly hitting the posts over 6 times. Manchester had many great chances and finished off their opponent. Please do not call me a liar, and ignorant when you use this example or call me a cherry picker in your argument when you can not yourself get the facts right. Please do not embellish my statements to your own just accord, so as to make something larger than is already there. With that said, the overall production of Manchester United is displayed on their League, Cups and Champions League (whether it be 2nd or 1st team), it is still Manchester United. The team has had generous success in recent weeks, but this doesn't foreshadow the weakness the team has displayed throughout the year. Whether or not it goes against the norm, your argument is weak. You continue to dismiss, disengage and disinterest your self in other conversations because they have no vague interest to you. At the same time, you insults, belittle posters here in a poor matter and you expect them to show you any lack of respect with your opinion. Continuing, perhaps you have a thick cloth covering your eyes, but there is engaging debate all over the world and on forums about Tevez's use, performance etc. Opinions that lie with your comments and those that go against your comments. Please stop insisting that everyone is wrong, because "certain individuals" counter your beliefs to your opinion, your statements do no prove strong enough to support your claims. This is a fair enough assessment and I agree to some extent. On the other hand, who is we? I thought these were your opinions. Are you speaking for yourself or a collective? It would be beneficial to the argument that you only stay on course with your own opinions. I garner that you do not represent Manchester United fans as a whole, nor do you probably represent England fans as a whole or World Wide Manchester United fans as a whole. He started off slow in West Ham and left a legendary hero because of his performance. He went into Manchester United among the turbulence of the transfer dispute and his fitness and he still managed to perform great last season. Furthermore his accomplishments can only be dwindled to Ronaldo's greatness last year. Tevez did well last year, especially for his first season. As I said in another thread, not related to this one. Tevez had a average 6 months compared to his entire career, but so did most of the Manchester United players.
Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II Of course they are not impressive for HALF a season when a player does not get any game time, which is the point I made since they are impressive for just this reason. That is objective, it is you that are not being objective and the more you post the more you being showing your true colours. You mean the irrelevant comments you made to many of the individuals in this thread? No you ignore a lot of things and honestly you don't particularly make a lot of sense. You are very repetitive to. I proof read all my posts, even in size. No it is not understandable, please don't make excuses or use a scape goat to deviate from your own incompetence. You fully admit that my praise for Tevez in just two games that defined his career, a player I've been following since the age of 18 years old, in an Argentina forum and you are calling me bias? All because of two posts following two games I made, right here, in this thread. That is both idiotic and insane at the same time, and is grounds for flaim bait and trolling and if you continue, again, I will get a high level mod to review your entry into this discussion forum. Well if you knew his history, you would know he's changed positions for his clubs he's played before when in Boca, West Ham and Corinthians. Furthermore, he is a support striker and attacking central midfielder on any given day Fergie decides to put him in whether off the bench or start of a game. Please go ahead, and cherry pick. What you wrote is there for all to see. What you wrote does not lie. I read your entire conversation and followed this entire conversation from the start, what I showed is you exactly in the light I described. You articulating and justifying your posts is like a River fan justifying a 3-0 trouncing at the El Monumental. Your idiocy is not fooling no one. You continue to offer the same repetitive notions. You're becoming a farce here, and even if you did "cherry pick' my posts, I meant every word of it. I don't sugar coat or hide what I say. I also don't go into Manchester United or England forums and start antagonizing posts in fandom sections and refute without considering the other posters thoughts or actions. You are giving your opinion without hearing or listening to the side that is offering your criticisms. Not only is it stupid, immature and annoying, but it is ruining the thread that most of us enjoy. So I suggest you stop trolling these boards or I will again, repeating myself, have a mod look into you.
Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II You're all doing it on purpose now. its horribe because i'm really interested in the subject but these long post are killing me.
Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II Hehe, short posts to no posts, you all do what i want, lol, you're all my boys lol.
Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II Ok Zippy a short one, Teso himself agrees with my view that Tevez is a supporting forward, yes? Ergo he is not the principle scoring threat and NOT the principle playmaker, but rather a hustler , hard worker who pulls defences this way and that and makes space for others. Teso himself said he NEVER questioned Tevez' hard work, commitment and hustle, ergo AGAIN MY DEAR TESO it then begs the question, WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM THE GUY?????????????????? I say he has done his role well and is only not living up to expectations in the eyes of those who thought they were going to get another goal monster or those who put Tevez totlay in another realm in wich he is just not suited to excell in.
Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II I don't know what point you are making but you described tevez well.
Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II Point is Teso comes on here stating Tevez is and has done his job far below expectations when in fact Tevez as the player he is, is doing his job just fine and it is people like Teso and the ManU board to some degree that just don't see the spectrum in wich Tevez shines.
Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II Ohhhh my goodness! The "Unsubscribe" button is looking like a good option at the moment.
Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II Andate ya gallina, que queries aqui cuando hablamos de un bostero?
Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II There is a clear contrast between the style of football in each league and it directly impacts on how players are able to perform in the respective leagues. Obviously we need to deal in generalisations because players are all different but, generally speaking, some of the things you find include: (a) strikers who struggle in the Premiership flourish in La Liga (b) older players moving to La Liga and Serie A to extend their careers (c) lightweight creative players operating best in La Liga (d) players struggling to cope with the reduced time and space in the Premiership Those are but four examples. Let us read what Tevez had to say about the situation: Veron suffered the same problem as he could not adjust from the time he had on the ball in Serie A to the lack of time he had on the ball in the Premiership. Despite the initial Keane factor they still operated well together in midfield but Veron's performances varied greatly depending on the competition. In Europe he was superb. He flourished with the added time and space of European play. In the Premiership he did have his great games but most of the time he was subdued. His failure is something no-one had expected at the time. It is also not something to hold against him as you cannot be perfect in every situation. We are not here to discuss the respective leagues so I will keep this brief. Serie A balanced play, structured defending, time on the ball in 'safe' positions, pressing in dangerous positions La Liga attack orientated, less structured defending, more space to operate, midfield often bypassed, pressing in dangerous areas, tactical fouls to stop breaks Premiership high tempo, end to end, pressing across the pitch, reduced time on the ball Those are some brief thoughts. Again it is generalisation because we cannot detail every team and every game. However this is not the place. If you are interested in continuing this section of the discussion it would be best to create a new thread. I am questioning your knowledge of the Premiership, Man Utd and Tevez during his time at Man Utd. I think it is a legitimate question to pose based on the discussion thus far. I am well aware of Tevez at Boca as well which is why I am disappointed with the current situation. Ferguson has played several players who operate in the hole during his tenure. The reason Rooney has been used further forward is two-fold. Firstly we had no option due to injuries and Tevez was preferred in that role. Secondly Ferguson wanted Rooney to become more clinical in and around the box. The signing of Berbatov was done to enable him to operate as the attacking pivot (outlet) for our other attacking players to go beyond. I am using the word ignorant to indicate a lack knowledge of the specific subject matter. Based on some of the stuff I have been reading thus far it is fully justified. Both of those sentences are general comments and not directed towards any individual in particular. I am glad that you are engaging in a discussion and doing so point by point. I am also glad that you have avoided going down the personal attack route. The answer to your last question is contained in my initial section of post #123. There is extensive coverage of South American football available in the UK. Until recently you could watch the Argentine league and an extensive highlights show on terrestrial television. The Internet requires no further explanation. Do you think we should provide a few key bullet points at the end of each post for zippy?
Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II Rofl, i hate long post but i have to give you some credit, you certainly never back down.
Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II Dismissing an argument is not an insult. It is part of life, part of discussion and part of being an active member of a board. You have proven nothing to date in this thread. You asked the question and I provided the answer. Here are two common examples of a day: (1) Uni day Get up and check email (inc. PM's, etc). Sometimes waste time between lectures/labs on the Internet. Deal with email (etc) on the move (the wonders of technology). Visit pre/during/post matches. Internet before bed. (2) Work day Get up and check email (inc. PM's, etc). Sometimes waste time during journey, while waiting on team to finish a task or in hotel on the Internet. Deal with emails (etc) on the move. Internet before bed. I would like to add two things to the above lists. When insomnia strikes I usually go on BS. I actually found the site while randomly browsing during one such strike. This week, as an example, I went over 60 hours without sleep. When I am competing in a draft, which I currently am, I am online more often to check the running. So I am not online all day just at varying points throughout depending on what I am doing. Now I had no need to post all of that but you wanted an explanation and there is nothing on television apart from Red Nose Day bullshit. I am also not going out tonight because I need to get up early for the Man Utd/Liverpool match and I will be out for duration as we have a work and dual birthday night out afterwards. This is my evening of rest. And BS. Why would I need to provide evidence to support facts? Anyone who has watched all of our games will know the accuracy of my 'opinions'. I have already commented on the stats part of the discussion and I have nothing further to add. I am making legitimate comments based on what you have posted in this thread and during our discussion to date. I am not here to mollycoddle you. You are simply making baseless personal attacks because your feelings have been hurt and you have been found out. By found out I mean you have proven you cannot be objective when Tevez is concerned. You are a fan of his, I understand that, but so I am. You have let it blind you to the reality of the situation. Rooney, despite some injuries, is second in the team for goals and third in the team for assists. Ronaldo, despite being injured, having no pre-season and having to work back to match fitness/sharpness, leads the team in goals and is fourth in assists. Berbatov, despite being new to the team and having to work to match fitness/sharpness, is third in the team for goals and second for assists. For some added perspective let us look beyond Man Utd and to the Premiership. Their clear end product puts Ronaldo second for goals and Berbatov first for assists overall. For everything else (inc. Rooney) they are in amongst the pack. That is what Tevez is competing with and none of the aforementioned players have been in top form this season. Park does not belong in a discussion of strike options because he is not one. I only mentioned him because he, like Tevez for most of the season, offers a lot of work rate but sporadic end product. Your comments have proven that you either did not watch both games in question or are incapable of comprehending what you did see. Your choice. I will give you a chance to revise the above section before I continue. Suffice to say it is riddled with errors. The majority of my posts have been neither weak nor belittling. On the rare occasions when some might have been belittling it has been fully merited and most, it has to be said, have been directed towards your posts in direct response to what you have posted towards me. I have nothing further (nor new) to add in this section. The 'we' refers to the media and Man Utd fans. I am speaking for myself predominantly and, in this case, them. You need to note that it directly followed your section about what I said being 'against the norm'. I am glad you have finally found something you deem to be a fair assessment. It is also a perfect summary of my fundamental thoughts on the issue. I never said he did leave West Ham as a fan favourite nor that he did not do well last season. All I said, legitimately, was that his performances in England have been erratic. I even offered some explanation as to why that was the case. Tevez has had an average spell in England in comparison to what we all know he can do. Hopefully he manages to pull it all together.
Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II Tevez has been getting game time. They are not impressive figures for a striking option of an elite side and the third striking option at that. Certainly not one who has featured as often as Tevez has. I guess there must be some gap between our standards. I ignore comments when things start to get too repetitive. Why should I waste my time with someone who refuses to acknowledge what I have posted? It is particularly annoying when they are repeatings claims that I have clearly dismissed and provided detailed justification of my reasoning. If you want to continue to hold an untenable position then feel free. I will not be part of it. As for trading insults I try to avoid it but everyone, eventually, gets dragged in particularly when countless insults are repeatedly thrown their way. All of this section contains general comments. They are not directed towards you as an individual. Give me a break. My posts in a discussion can easily approach, or indeed exceed, dissertation word limits. I am not going to double my work by having to read though every single section again. It is not an excuse, I am not seeking a scape goat and I make no apology. See below. I am not going to repeat my point because it was quite clear. If you cannot handle the discussion then stop posting or take a break to calm down. I will ignore the idle threats. There is little difference between an attacking midfield and a support striker as both occupy roughly the same area of the pitch and they both perform the same fundamental role. I was responded to the claim that I, somehow, did not know his position. Lots of players change positions or are adaptable. It does not change their main position. He is a support striker and has played as one for the vast majority of his time at Man Utd. I am not here to cherry pick because it is being dishonest which is something I am not. I will also not repeat what you did because it is irrelevant to the discussion. It is obvious that you are incapable of a mature discussion. As I have stated previously, I will not respond to your personal attacks. Now either act like an adult and engage in a mature discussion or do not bother to post. I'm not finished yet.
Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II A support striker is supposed to provide creativity and also contribute with goals. Granted not the same number of goals as a striker but still goals. The expectation on our striking options is to target 20 goals each in all competitions. Anything above that is a bonus. No-one said that Tevez should be the principle anything but that does not excuse his current lack of production. We do not need a simple hustler because that is not his role. We even expect more than that from Park. Tevez, to date, has not done his role well and has not met expectations. Incorrect, as explained above. Why run? Please join the discussion. The Tevez 'issue' is not going to magically disappear. It needs to be discussed. At what level and how constructive the discussion is depends on the posters involved from this point forward.
Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II Teso what do you do for a job, you sound quite clever, are you a teacher or something like that cos the way you set out your posts looks sort of professional.
Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II FAO: aerez & zippy85 I will repeat this once more: "No-one is questioning his work rate or commitment. What I are legitimately questioning is his end product and whether he is worth the potential fee based on his displays thus far. I know what he is capable of but he needs to start consistently showing it. If he does that his future will not be in question, he will be used more regularly and in the big games. To reiterate no-one is attacking Tevez and no-one is underrating Tevez." I even changed the 'we' for 'I' especially for you... Your response was: Now we can continue to dance around the issue and get dragged into trading insults but the above is my fundamental point and everything else is a side issue. Since we have found some common ground can we cut the associated crap and move on constructively? Over to you. PS: zippy, consider this your discussion CliffsNotes.
Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II I do audits and stock takes with some university on the side. It is the US equivalent of York Notes. --- Anyway I am off on a wander of the other boards. I know some of you will be delighted to read that. I shall return though but it might not be until later on next week. I'm busy tomorrow, leaving to fly out to the islands on Sunday and have some deadlines for next week.
Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II Oh, ok thats quite impressive, i'm not easily impressed though and you still hurt me before so you're not exactly in my good books at the moment. What does cliff notes mean? Edit what does york notes mean, is it just notes on paper or something?
Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II wait, didn't he score 19 goals last season (his first season), close enought to 20! He is done his role to perfection TBH!
Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II Tevez starting in a big game. This game is going to be great, both lineups are full star-studded power! It's 8:49 am EST.
Re: Carlos Tevez - news & rumors, part II He was erratic but he was still having an impact in terms of goals. This season he is erratic but is not. His numbers are not good despite his four goal display in the Carling Cup boosting them. The less said about that game the better.