Candidates for the Final

Discussion in 'World Cup 2010: Refereeing' started by uuaww, Jun 27, 2010.

  1. alawajik

    alawajik New Member

    Jul 4, 2010
    My prediction for the final :
    Khalil AL GHAMDI (ksa)

    I think he controlled the previous two matches very well.
     
  2. UK93JJG

    UK93JJG New Member

    Jun 5, 2010
    Club:
    Glasgow Rangers FC
    He's too whistle-happy for my liking, and imo, he lost the plot in the first half of the Chile v Switzerland game. I genuinely can only see one of Archundia, Webb or De Bleeckere overseeing the final, with Archundia the clear frontrunner.
     
  3. refontherun

    refontherun Member+

    Jul 14, 2005
    Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Archundia and Webb haven't been used since that R16. I think it's a toss-up. Since Webb's already had a big match with the CL Final, maybe it's Archudia's turn with Webb as 4O.
     
  4. aphelorah

    aphelorah Member

    Jun 9, 2010
    USA
    Food for thought: Rodriguez may have been retained so he could be the fourth official for Archundia, thus an all Mexican crew for the final.
     
  5. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Archundia hasn't been used in the knockout stages.
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Your sentiment is correct, but remember that Archundia uses Hector Vergara, the Canadian AR.
     
  7. DudsBro

    DudsBro Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Woot!

    at this point, Archunida has to be getting the Final. Webb will have the 3rd place match if NED is playing. If they're not, it's a toss up between him as 4th on the Final or 3rd. That being said, I think it's more likely that he's working the 3rd, with Rodriguez on the sides for the Final with Archunida. I have not been impressed with Rodriguez, but I guess FIFA us. On the bright side, Mallenco is done.
     
  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hector Vergara is going to go down as the best AR in history up to this point--and that's whether he gets the World Cup Final or not. The man's longevity and consistency has been spectacular. And he's done this without ever having a D-1 league to call his own (he's only occasionally done MLS matches since Canadian officials entered the league a few years ago). It's an amazingly impressive resume he's put together. To do so from a country that has less pull in FIFA politics than the United States has? Makes it all the more astounding.
     
  9. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    It looks like I may have to retract my prediction for Mallenco on the final, now that Spain have reached the semi. Even if Spain loses the match, they might feel that Mallenco would be biased against Germany in the final. But you never know...

    How about Damon for the 3rd place game? Home country referee and all that, and no-one cares about this match anyway but it looks good as a thank-you present for Africa.
     
  10. Cevno

    Cevno Member+

    Aug 27, 2005
    Shifting.
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    If it's a Spain - Netherlands final ,Giving the final to Archundia could be a advantage for spain in terms of communication with the referee and with him coming from a somewhat similar culture and football style.

    I think Fifa Will proably take this into account too.
     
  11. UK93JJG

    UK93JJG New Member

    Jun 5, 2010
    Club:
    Glasgow Rangers FC
    You know, I think that could be a point, mate. I hadn't thought of that, but FIFA could well take that into consideration, too.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's possible, but Codesal did the Argentina v. West Germany Final in 1990. Brizio Carter also did Holland v. Argentina QF in 1998. FIFA hasn't seemed to care about the Spanish-language association in the past on major matches.
     
  13. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Remember that Codesal had his father-in-law on the RefComm!
    This would overrule all these logic based
    theories.
     
  14. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    I believe this is correct. I wouldn't necessarily attribute too much in the way sentimentality to FIFA, but clearly this tournament is Blatter's baby and he will want the South African referee on that match IMHO. And since it is basically a meaningless game there's little worry.

    I didn't realize that Archundia and Co. hadn't done anything in the knock out stages. That seems to mean he is a lock to me. The potential issue with putting Rodriguez as 4O means that if anything happens to Archundia he goes in. I suppose that has never happened before but this has been the World Cup of bizarre occurrences.
     
  15. prof.tim

    prof.tim Red Card

    Jul 6, 2010
    agree with that
     
  16. refontherun

    refontherun Member+

    Jul 14, 2005
    Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It just occurred to me, Martin Hannson has been there the whole time and done nothing but 4Os. Any thoughts?
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Each confederation had one referee team that was there only as reserves (save Africa, as Benouza got injured and wasn't replaced). Hansson was apparently #10 on UEFA's depth chart of 10 referees. He knew he'd only be a fourth official before the tournament started.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5hEYL2fxgIwaVjGFjsQ9C1Ihd1LDQ
     
  18. THAREF

    THAREF New Member

    Apr 24, 2004
    final candidates: MORE INSIGHT

    Hello All:

    Some interesting posts here - the WC Referee section has been well patronized, good to see. I will be interested to read through when the tournament is over and the dust settles :)

    some insight from someone intimately involved with the referee program at WC94:

    (1) FIFA has assigned consecutive finals to refs from the same country in the past: Englishmen in 1950 (Reader) and 1954 (Ling), and if that's too long ago there were Brazilians on 1982 (Coelho) and 1986 (Filho). It is not unprecedented, but probably unlikely these days.

    (2) Archundia is a good bet. One thing telling is his not being used much (at all?) after the group games.

    But things can be turned upside down on a whim! Peter Mikkelson (Denmark) was set up that same way for the 94 final with the two Australians (Brazzale and Dunster, who had done the opener) on the line. There was a final referee committee meeting to confirm the appointments - when ex-FIFA Pres Havelange walked in. He insisted that there be no "spectacle-killing" misconduct in the final (recall Codesal 1990 was the first send-off(s)) and asked who had given the fewest YC in the tournament. The answer? SANDOR PUHL of Hungary. They chose two innocuous Linesmen (Zarate of Venezuela and Fanai of Iran) and there you have it - done, done, and done. Mikkelson was irate (justifiably so).

    (3) Did you know that Archundia's FATHER was a Linesman on the 1974 Final for Jack Taylor? I'm pretty sure the father / son Final would be a first, I wonder if there are father/son World Cup referees.

    Enjoy the last weekend! Germany - Spain semi is on in the background right now.

    THAREF
     
  19. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Re: final candidates: MORE INSIGHT

    This Archundia is not the son the of the 1974 Archundia.
    Codesal's father was on the FIFA RefComm, and may have been
    a WC referee back in the 60s. He is Uruguayan.
     
  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: final candidates: MORE INSIGHT

    Is there a relation?
    Codesal's dad did one match in England 1966.

    The story above about Mikkelsen is astounding, and all evidence makes it look legitimate. Puhl did have the fewest cards. Mikkelsen, who originally was with one of his Danish ARs, got switched to the two Aussie ARs in the Netherlands v. Ireland match. Mikkelsen also did send off a Spaniard in Round 1. Plus Mikkelsen had done three matches, none involving Brazil or Italy (while Puhl did Italy in the QFs and Brazil in Round 1) so there was no conflict. Given Mikkelsen's 1990 pedigree, it makes perfect sense he was slated for a late-round match--Final or Semifinal.

    If that's how it happened, I think Mikkelsen had a right to be more than irate. He loses out on the Final because he gave 4 more cards than Puhl over three matches! After that tournament, Puhl then got a Euro 96 semifinal (while Mikkelsen had a group stage match) and Puhl did the UCL Final, when Mikkelsen did not. I remember watching Puhl and he's now remembered as the world's best prior to Collina. It seems like that was Mikkelsen's mantle for the taking and he got robbed of it. Of course Mikkelsen now sits on the RefComm and has a say in who works Sunday... wonder if he'll be recalling his own ordeal?
     
  21. mattteo

    mattteo Member

    Jul 19, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Collina wasn't involved in calciopoli at all.
     
  22. UK93JJG

    UK93JJG New Member

    Jun 5, 2010
    Club:
    Glasgow Rangers FC
    I'm pretty 100% convinced Archundia is getting the final now. The other two that I considered candidates - De Bleeckere and Webb are both in my eyes now ruled out. De Bleeckere, as he was fourth official tonight and has overseen Dutch league games, and Webb, as he has already overseen a Spain match in this tournament. Fair enough, he got through the game without incident, but it's unusual that a referee gets appointed to the same country twice.
     
  23. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Re: final candidates: MORE INSIGHT

    My info is that there is no close, but perhaps a distant relation.

    Thanks for the info on Codesal the elder. I kind of suspected that but wasn't certain.

    This is more indication of the kind of thing I was writing about
    several pages ago. All of the detailed discussion about performance,
    who did what games and countries etc., is very interesting and fun, but it
    in reality does not count for much. This type of objective analysis and logic
    goes out the window when it comes to the WC final! All you have to do is
    look at the previous referees and the pattern is clear.

    I will also point out that Puhl had a very strong fellow countryman on the
    committee, by the name of Palotai, a former prominent and very good FIFA referee. I doubt he would have got the match without Palotai being there.
     
  24. Cevno

    Cevno Member+

    Aug 27, 2005
    Shifting.
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Re: final candidates: MORE INSIGHT

    The Dutch would Prefer Webb ,Not only for the Communication part but also he suits there style of play more than Archundia.

    While the Spanish will prefer Archundia ,He speaks spanish and comes from a Country which is similar in terms of playing style to spain.

    Interesting Choice here for FIFA.
     
  25. LiquidYogi

    LiquidYogi Member

    Sep 3, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Re: final candidates: MORE INSIGHT

    I think Dutch wouldn't not like Archundia because he'd probably be more lenient with the diving. So the Dutch could probably dive more than a couple times without risking getting carded for it.
     

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