Good news. Is this the same ownership group that did the test games in 2019? I'm hopeful that they can make it work in Saskatoon. Nominally the market is really a bit too small at 336 000 but they have the advantage of being the biggest city in the area. They also have a good history of supporting sports (average around 13 000 for the NLL's Saskatchewan Rush). With a little luck, they can become the Halifax of the prairies.
Joe Belan was the initial name behind Saskatoon but he's out of the group of ownership. Alan Simpson being a local contrarily to Joe Belan who moved back to Toronto from overseas makes sense. Also, we could see Joe Belan try for a club in the future in the GTA for the likes of Mississauga or Toronto club (I think Pickering is the target with Durham Live mega project)
I haven't seen any specifics but I'd assume a ~5000 or 6000 seat, modular stadium? Perhaps. I'd want to see how York does over another year or so and how a Montreal (area) team does before putting another club in the GTA. We don't have a lot of experience in crowding clubs together. Given the European experience there's no theoretical reason it won't work but this also isn't Europe.
It also works for AFL and NRL in Australia - where Melbourne and Sydney respectively have loads of clubs and other cities have one or maybe two.
It's more around ~5000 at first but they have tons of land to work with and expand. Soccer might be what's going to save Prairieland Park - they are kicking out the horse racing Update from Prairieland today on CKOM Radio. The Prairieland CEO mentioned that there is no room for both at Prairieland, Horse racing was losing significant money and is over. Also said if they ran racing the last 2 seasons, Prairieland park may not be able to "keep the lights on" in 2022. York will be fine - When the CSL was around both Toronto and North York had clubs pre-amalgamation. Even with the merger of the 6, most borough retained their old cities identity and citizens still relates strongly with them. (Rob Ford brilliantly played on that by turning them against Old Toronto) York 9 was a terrible concept, York United works better by embracing Toronto and declaring itself a Toronto team who wants to draw in York, not the other way around. There's no excuse for a club in North York with a subway station at your door in the middle of over 675k people having less than 5% of that population knowing you even exist. North Yorkers actually strongly supports anything going on here - most didn't know about York 9. Montreal used to have more than one NHL club on the island, multiple clubs in the metro area will be fine. CF Montreal drawing poorly is on them - it has nothing to do with market saturation, same for York vs. TFC
^ I'm more concerned about attendance. Back in the CSL days, the Blizzard used to draw around 3000 and North York around 1500. So, yes, there were two teams but they weren't actually viable. York had the worst attendance in the league in year one while having access to the largest market. I hope they grow and I'll be the first to acknowledge that it's only one year. Still, that's my point about wondering how viable multi-team markets will be in practice rather than in theory. Also, I'm not saying the team is doomed or anything because the investors are clear they want to give it a go and the league does have sponsor/media money. At some point, however, all the teams are going to have to balance their books and the league has said that will require attendance somewhere between 5000 and 7000. So York has a ways to go.
A lot of the attendance issues with York seem to be ownership issues tho. The impression I got was that they didn’t want to spend a lot of time building a fanbase at York U because they were supposed to move into a new stadium elsewhere in the York area within a few seasons. I would think there would be a lot of overlap in potential fanbases between the two locations, but that didn’t seem to be a focus for the ownership group.
The failure of the CSL had more to do about how teams ran their clubs than attendance - The CPL being structured the way it is today is took lots of lessons of how NOT to run a league --> CSL You could be in the middle of of any mega city... If no one knows you're there and the media doesn't care because you're presenting yourself as "not from that media market" it won't matter where your are. On top of that, they rushed to move to York Lions instead of the original plan of playing half the 1st season on the other pitch while York Lions was supposed to be renovated. So the little amount of people who knew they were there had to stomach a terrible stadium that looked even worse on TV. Angus McNab committed to stay at York U until it made sense to explore a bigger venue but he's willing to do everything to drastically improve the stadium - which the structure relatively modern. The camera will face the crowd instead of looking an empty field while the running track has been removed. He even said that if a roof was necessary, they'd build it. It is when done right. Our demographics is much more similar to Europe than the U, meaning that we don't have tons of 1 million + cities, we have a few big metro areas like Europe so CPL understood that "long term" that approach made more sense. Major leagues are ran by Americans and it makes sense for them to view the rest of Canada as irrelevant outside of our 3 big metros. Unfortunately, too many people have been conditioned to buy into that and apply it across the board. Montreal Island can absolutely sport more than 1 club. CF Montreal is in east Island. No one in West Island care about that club while surprisingly, central Montreal (including downtown) is still fair game. There's a reason why Northern Island has a target on it - most concentration of immigrants on the Island and heavily populated. East Montreal (CF Montreal) ~590k North Central Montreal (rumored CPL target at CEPSUM - University of Mtl) ~629K + (Laval next door ~400k) Downtown / Central / South-West / West Island ~700k The market isn't saturated - CF Montreal failed at getting a metro area of over 4M people behind it (Joey Saputo's own admission) while being isolated in the east. Toronto? TFC is established but North York (over 860k) and Scarborough (~over 632k) could support a club on it's own - easily! Mississauga (~721k), Brampton, Durham (~645k) and Halton (near 600k) could as well. Kitchener-Waterloo is a slam dunk (~over 500k) while no one's doubting London (near 500k). However, no major league would ever view that scenario as realistic, hell the NHL still believe that a club in Hamilton and a 2nd Toronto club is heresy. Metro Vancouver? Fraser Valley can easily do it Have most MLS clubs ever balanced their books? York United owners are ridiculously wealthy, they aren't loosing sleep over York attendance issues - they've spent even more money on long term plans for the club.
Off topic but that fact that Hamilton doesn't have an NHL team is all about market protection. No one believes an NHL team would have a problem surviving in Hamilton. Back when Basillie was trying to move Phoenix, I saw a study that said a Hamilton team would instantly be something like the 5th most valuable NHL franchise. Actually, I think yes for most of them if you eliminate the book keeping shell games where the team is separate from the stadium which is separate from the concessions, etc. What you say is true. In the spirit of discussion, not argument, it comes down to the philosophy of running the league. It is absolutely true that it will take a lot of investment and initial losses to get this league fully up and running. I appreciate that the existing ownership groups have the wealth to do it. And they may be willing to absorb initial operational losses in the hope that the asset will begin to appreciate. (Sort of like how TFC certainly had some operational losses early on but the most recent valuation of $395 million greatly exceeds the $10 million that MLSE paid for it plus any losses.) Still, at some point in the medium term, the teams have to become self sustaining. Otherwise the league is only viable so long as the owners want to keep their toys. I don't mean that they have to make boatloads of profit, but they have to get to the point where someone could own a team without expecting to have to put in money every year and only hope for asset appreciation. Otherwise it's more like a ponzi scheme than a viable league. Again, it's okay for this not to be true yet, but it does have to happen medium term. Especially if the league wants to hit its target of 16 D1 clubs because that's going to require being in some smaller markets where asset appreciation won't be as great. A big part of this profitability is going to be ticket revenue. The league has variously reported the necessary attendance at 5000 to 7000 (with the spread probably depending on individual team details). So I find it concerning that attendance is poor in the league's biggest markets. Edmonton, Calgary, and York all need something like double to triple what they've drawn so far. The history of pro sports doesn't often see that type of improvement. Adding 10% or 20%, sure, but not usually doubling. And then we're talking about sub-dividing those markets? I want to see the CPL thrive. I'm just not sure that's the way.
York needs to make a long-term decision about it's future. Living south of Bloor, I'm not going to start supporting and travelling to matches at the current location conveniently beside a Toronto subway station, with a long-term plan to move to King City. There's no way I'm going to start driving to the other side of the green belt to watch matches.
Most Torontonians lives outside of Old Toronto - Although the team's marketing is aimed at the entire city, realistically they are aiming at North York, York Borough and still York region. There's more to Toronto than just downtown. The truth applies in reverse... Not that much appetite for people in Scarborough, North York and Etobicoke to trek to BMO field either...They will for the Raptors, Jays and Leafs. I rarely see the Yonge line at Sheppard-Yonge filled with red shirts other than when it's the Raptors. Trains are loaded with blue shirts for hockey and Baseball though. I think it's more tied with the controversial GO Kirby train station where new entertainment district was being talked about. I think with Angus McNab now being team president, that might not happen. He's been the driving force in making York a Toronto team. You'd have to assume that North York might also be the end game.
Both Abzi of York United and Mo Farsi from Cavalry have been called up to the U23 team We're so proud of @Abzi__20, who has been included in the @CanadaSoccerEN Olympic squad for today's opening fixture against El Salvador.A great day for our club and a firm example of hard work paying off for a superb young talent. #canm23 #CMOQ https://t.co/bpMIY7DXQi— York United FC (@yorkutdfc) March 19, 2021 🎉Congratulations to @Farsi_15 on his call up to the #CanM23 ahead of tonight's Olympic Qualifying match vs El Salvador. 🔗https://t.co/3lZOjsFjdP📺 Tune in LIVE on OneSoccer at 6pm ET / 3pm PT to cheer 🇨🇦 on!#CavsFC pic.twitter.com/153ZMeWewf— Cavalry FC (@CPLCavalryFC) March 19, 2021
I don't think I've ever seen any marketing. Not even at a transit shelter outside BMO field. But does anyone, even in the northern part of the city, want to start driving to sports events? King City to York University is about the same distance as York to Varsity stadium on Bloor. I think that would be a great spot for a team, but I don't see football coming to downtown Toronto anytime soon. There's no planned subway extensions anywhere near the area ... the extension to Vaughan Centre opened in 2017, and that's the last extension that's planned in that direction. I hadn't put 2+2 together, with that proposed Kirby GO in Vaughan might be near the proposed King City stadium. Though Kirby Road is the border - so if the stadium ends up being across the street from the GO station, that might be a game changer for me, as there'd be 15-minute off-peak service there. Certainly no where near subway frequencies, but it would be a fast train to Bloor or Union stations. Is there a proposed stadium location? I didn't think anything had been sorted, and I can't see much with a google search.
Saskatoon Alan Simpson from Living Sky Sports and Entertainment Inc. (LSSE) confirmed that they have acquired the exclusive rights for expansion club(s) in the province of Saskatchewan. His intention is to establish a club in Saskatoon and launch a second club in Regina when Saskatoon will be firmly established in it's market leading to a provincial derby. The stadium rendering will be shared in the coming weeks. Fraser Valley Bundesliga are seeking a partnership with the CPL which could lead to the launch of a Bundesliga-backed club. The market in question is Fraser Valley region in Metro Vancouver. Either Surrey or Langley would be the logical choices. 2021 Season The league is still pursuing a full season as of Victoria day with a % of fans being allowed in the stadium
Cool perk from being part of Madrid We want our team to feel a part of the larger Atlético family and this is the best way to ensure we meet this goal, all while providing world class training opportunities to our players (2/2).— Fernando López (@4fernandolopez) March 29, 2021
It's all part of the plan... MediaPro Canada secured exclusive rights to the 2021 CCL. As speculated before, I believe that the MLS media rights are next which would bring a big influx of new fans to the league. 🥁🥁🥁The 2021 Scotiabank Concacaf Champions League is now available on OneSoccer! ⚽🏆First up? @TorontoFC 🦝 vs. @clubleonfc 🦁LEG 1️⃣ - April 7LEG 2️⃣ - April 14 #TFClive | #SCCL21 SUBSCRIBE 👉 https://t.co/hishXepRT3 pic.twitter.com/eUu5TXXRiy— OneSoccer (@onesoccer) March 29, 2021 So the Concacaf Champions League moves from TSN/RDS to OneSoccer. Most of soccer in Canada is now on OTT with only the rights to #VWFC/#TFCLive/#CFMTL broadcast deals still on linear television.— Tristan D'Amours (@tristandamours) March 29, 2021
Hey, I'm not the one trying to ignore that MLS minimum salaries were the equivalent of CAN$50,000 in 2021 $. Five times higher than the third-tier CPL.
How am I hurt? Funnily enough, that's an opinion, not a fact. The facts are that the MLS first-year minimum for the 18th player was CAN$50,000 in 2021 dollars. And that the CPL first year minimum for the 18th player was CAN$10,000 in 2019 dollars. How this hurts anyone here I don't know.
You're funny! You're trying so hard CPL being a 100% Canadian league, I don't know how it's relevant to compare everything to the US league with currency exchange on top of it. You're trying too hard to prove whatever point you're trying to make for which I care little about. Have fun
You asked about the professionality of the 1996 MLS; it does require a currency exchange. Though it's still 4 times higher than CPL if you ignore that.