If Derek Cornelius can't get into the Caps starting lineup with Khemiri ahead of him....we are absolutely at square 1 in central defense.
They have to many foreigners for the good of Canada. It might be really beneficial for all Canadian teams to leave MLS and join CPL. CPL should also put a limit to how many foreigners each team can have.
That would be a bad thing for CPL and the MLS teams. Regardless of them playing Canadians or not, Toronto's academy system, in particular, is cranking out a lot of sub-MLS players that are seeding many CPL teams. Take away the money from MLS and those academies are likely going to be shutdown, or, at least, scaled back significantly. CPL already limits teams to 7 foreigners per team. I believe they also only count Canadian citizens as domestic players, so it's a longer and more difficult process to change a foreign player to domestic than there is in MLS. They also require 6 Canadian starters in the starting 11 and 3 under-21 with a combined 1,000 minutes per season.
But they might finally turn a profit! If they do reduce their investment, that's an opportunity for local academies to step up in their place if they scale down a bit. David wasn't produced by an MLS academy but an unknown local Ottawa academy. This country need a more inclusive approach to academies, scouting and Identification but we're already moving towards that under John Herdman which was started by Montagliani
Despite what the league and team may claim, I highly doubt that they are actually losing money. Because that worked so well prior to MLS and CPL. Regardless of what you may think of MLS's academies, they are dumping a lot more money into actually producing players than existed prior to their existence. You aren't wrong.
At first yea maybe but i thing it would be best in the long run for CPL. I think it would really make the league take off in terms of competitiveness and in the long run bring more revenue into the league. Then you guys can really start forming more academies and have larger talent pools for the NT. Yes MLS may give you money and may nourish CPL to a certain extent but that money and talent pool isnt enough to fuel the Canadian NT. You need to bring CPL to the level of MLS and then you will see a stronger NT more players aboard ect.
Also regarding foreigners CPL is only 8 teams most leagues that size have 4 foreigners max. I really emphasize youth and national development having that many foreigners makes it hard for younger players to break through.
I think they are telling the truth but we can agree to disagree on this. The currency puts them at a massive disadvantage. TFC has the advantage in being in the same organization as the Maples Leafs and Raptors who prints dollars which would compensate for the Argonauts and TFC Talents had nowhere to go prior to both leagues. Even if MLS were to leave Canada, players would have CPL to aspire too and with the league clearly positioning itself to be a seller, very good players would still make their ways to MLS
Perhaps? It might be good for CPL, but I’m not sure it will be good for Canadian soccer in the long run. The standard of play in CPL is a pretty big step down from the standard of play in MLS and it’s not likely to catch up. Having CPL is huge, no doubt, as it increases the footprint of professional teams in Canada, but having that next step up in country is going to be good for Canadian soccer in the long run. Increasing the pool of professional Canadian players is a huge benefit for sure. But that has little to nothing to do with whether the Canadian MLS teams should go to CPL.
I’m not sure you understand how much running a free to play academy with a full coaching and training staff costs... Or how beneficial just the free to play aspect is... MLS teams aren’t going to pay CPL prices for USL quality players.. Particularly when they can get better players for less from Central and South American leagues. CPL’s primary buyers will likely be Scandanavian, Belgian, and Dutch clubs. Davies tearing up Bundesliga is definitely going to attract attention to Canada from German clubs, but if it doesn’t happen again in short order, that’s going to dry up.
I do but you and I don't know what would happen in the eventually of them switching leagues. You think they'd stop, I think they'd continue and with the lower operating costs, the numbers could start to make sense. FC Edmonton academy is also free to play fyi https://fcedmonton.canpl.ca/fc-edmonton-academy/ The Academy provides each player, regardless of economic or social situation, the opportunity to live out their dreams of training and playing soccer in a professional environment completely free of charge. The boys and girls teams are fully funded by the Fath Family, which owns FC Edmonton, as their way of giving back to the youth in their community. Families pay no registration fees and every Academy athlete is provided training & game wear, elite level coaching, academic mentorship and various other levels of soccer support. If FC Edmonton can do it, MLSE can. By talent, I'm referring to the likes of Jonathan Osorio, Mark-Anthony Kaye and Cyle Larin or Ritchie Laryea. These guys would interest MLS teams. Of course, nothing short than above average would be beat by an equivalent or above talent from sexier locations and that's normal. That's why there aren't that many Americans in CPL. The logic is virtually everywhere thus hardly a viable argument. Status quo isn't really that great for us. Canadians aren't domestic in the US while Americans are domestic in Canada. The VERY few players that play meaningful minutes is great but hardly significant in the grand scheme of things. TFC starts like 1 Canadian per games and the other 2 around 2 or 3. Outside of seeing the few exciting teams in MLS when they visit us, lots of people are waking up to the fact that the 3 MLS teams being in CPL wouldn't mean we'd be missing out as much as some people are implying. Yes MLS is higher in level but the VERY FEW Canadians playing is nowhere near enough to call MLS a sacred cow in Canada. As many like to throw at me on this forum "it isn't MLS job to help the national team". Perhaps it's time for the CSA to go all in for a Canadian solution with a league making it it's mission to works towards the success of the national team instead.
That’s amusing. The Faths’ largess is because of their dedication to Canadian soccer.. MLSE doesn’t share that dedication. Remove the requirement for an academy and I’m not sure why MLSE would make that kind of financial investment. Not for a transfer fee, tho. What made all of those players attractive for the US based MLS teams was the ability to sign them for free. Kaye, in particular, wouldn’t have been attractive to LAFC because without the Canadian clubs, he wouldn’t have counted as a Domestic and likely would have lost out to an American. Mostly true. Not sure I agree with the last sentence tho. Not entirely true. As of 2017, players that come out of Canadian MLS academies and Canadian Approved Academies do count as domestics on US teams as well. That should turn into a pathway for more Canadians to play in MLS. Particularly if/when CPL teams raise the standards of more Canadians to get them closer to equivalent Americans. Granted, requiring the first pro contract to be with an MLS team is problematic, but in a situation where CPL teams are cranking out better players, I would not be shocked if that rule gets modified. Which is why I mentioned the MLS academies, particularly TFC’s. Canada’s youth national teams are primarily drawn from the MLS academies. Some of that is due to laziness in scouting youth players, but it’s also because of the investment MLS teams are making in their academy teams. Don’t mistake social media for general soccer fans. Particularly if you are tapping into country over club fans. Those aren’t the largest fanbase. They are also the most fickle and, interestingly enough, the least tapped into the average soccer fan. Seeing more Canadians play is not a bigger draw than seeing better quality play in general.
Except even in the not-going-to-happen scenario where the three MLS teams moved to the CPL, it wouldn't actually be anything like the current rosters of those teams that move over. Jonathan Osorio alone makes more that the entire salary cap for a CPL team and he's hardly the highest paid player out there. The move would be the team names only, not the level of play or associated revenue.
Well this is how I look at it how many times do Canadian teams make it to Concacaf Champions league. They have made it only a hand full of times. Im sure if they join CPL CONCACAF will allow the league direct entry. Lets say they join and CPL expands to 12 teams the teams that left MLS will have to start Canadian players and limit their foreign players allowing more Canadian players to get playing time and grow. Also CPL probably should negotiate with MLS to still be part of the U.S Open and the many other international cups that MLS is trying to make such as Campeones cup, Leagues Cup, and North American Super Liga. The Toronto FC academy isnt enough to to fuel a whole NT and league is what im really trying to get that.
I don't know about that. The GTA having so much talent in this country, I have doubts that they would close shop and let others get the next great players and capitalize on them. They've misused their assets for years but I'm more of the belief that they would change "how" they operate not close everything down. If they were to shutdown, someone else would fill that vacuum. There are other leagues than MLS after all. European leagues are watching the league, it's not just about MLS That's thanks to Montagliani threatening to pull the 3 teams from MLS if there weren't improvements to the roster rules. It was a marginal improvement but with what the CSA had in mind when they agreed to sanctioning MLS clubs, it's quite frankly insufficient for what we need and results doesn't show that it's working. This needs to change and it will be changing thanks to the Team Herdman put together. Drawing primarily from MLS academies is both political and lack of resources to scout beyond. The CSA implemented reforms that will change that approach. You may praise the MLS academies and all the money they invested in Canada but I must have missed a CONCACAF trophy, a U20-U17 World Cup participation or Olympics where Canada were playing. I recognize their contribution but RESULTS matters and they aren't there nor good. Change is necessary and a more inclusive approach is where we're headed. MLS academies will continue to have their players selected but other academies will be included going forward. Those who aren't MLS fans will just watch European leagues. Unlike the big 4, MLS is not the best league in the world. Lots of MLS fans keeps having the "big 4" mentality and just assume Canadians will just watch them. TV rating definately doesn't reflect that and there are better choice out there. The MLS fans in the big 3 cities are actually more likely to check out BOTH leagues. Outside of MLS markets (2/3 of the country), very few cares about MLS and CPL will likely be their prime option
Every year. Canada has one guaranteed spot. No. CPL has a spot in the CONCACAF League. No. We aren't in the USOC now; we have the Canadian Championship. These other cups are mostly just distractions from more important events like the CCL, the Canadian Championship, and regular league play. We don't need them. This is true.
You are correct and that's one of the reasons why Canada's national team has struggled. It's also why it's a good thing there are 3 MLS academies actually cranking out players (Well, 2.. Montreal isn't doing nearly as well as it should). There's also huge gaps in coverage for Canada. They really only have coverage in the Toronto area, Montreal area, and BC. That's most of Canada's population, but there's a lot of area not covered by the MLS academies and it has resulted in players like Jonathan David (Ottawa) and Alphonso Davies (Edmonton) getting missed until their mid teens, or missed entirely. That's why CPL is going to be huge. Particularly if/when they start setting up their own academy systems. That should minimize the number of players that fall through the cracks and should, in time, increase the quality of Canadian players.
Academies existed before TFC's and they'll exist after, but the quality of those academies is going to be inferior to what TFC has.. The only reason I mentioned MLS in that quote was because you specifically mentioned those players being attractive to MLS in a world where there weren't Canadian MLS teams.. In fact, I specifically mentioned a number of European leagues that would be more interested in CPL and willing to pay transfer fees for their players in another post.... Which is why it is huge that the CPL exists now. This is another reason why CPL is going to be huge for Canadian soccer. Even though most CPL clubs don't currently have their own academies, they are keeping track of the youth clubs in their area and they will be able to bring attention to players that would have previously been missed. However, it's not like there aren't provincial and national youth tournaments that players on non-MLS academies can get attention and scouted. That's how Davies and David got their call-ups. But, again, CPL will help getting attention to players not in MLS academies. I'm not sure this is a reflection of the MLS academies, or just how broken the Canadian youth development system is. As javer pointed out, you can't build a national team on one academy.. Or even three academies. Canada needs a lot more academies to draw from and until that happens, they will continue to struggle. I don't think I've ever seen a MLS fan that thinks the league is a big 4 league or has a big 4 mentality. Particularly with regards to TV ratings.. My sole point is having more Canadians on the field does not make a league more popular. What makes a league more attractive is level of play and having better leagues on the TV certainly hurts that.
Based on what? Who produced the most impactful players on the NT? Davies? Edmonton. He was already special at 14/15, a handful of games at Whitecaps Academy didn't make Davies David? Ottawa Larin? (Sigma) Laryea? (Sigma) Kaye? TFC thought he was no good...how wrong were they? Doneil Henry aka "error prone"? TFC Junior Hoillett? Brampton Vitoria? Woodbridge Ontario Will Johnson? Woodbridge Fraser?TFC but man, wasting him is criminal Kamal Millier? Vaughan and Kitchener Manjrekar James? North York & Sigma Sam Adekugbe? Calgary and Whitecaps but he was trolling Vancouver who thought he wouldn't make it Past Owen Hargreaves? Calgary Foothills De Guzman? Scarborough & Europe Stalteri? GTA academy De Rosario? Scarborough Ricketts? Edmonton Gerba? in Quebec Hutchinson? Brampton TFC might dump more money now but quality-wise, it's been a massive learning curve for them and they've messed up on A LOT of their player's evaluation like Kaye or telling Liam Millar was too short to succeed (Messi is raising his hand somewhere). Same for MTL and Vancouver who got eliminated by Cavalry. Dos Santos said himself that a LOT of mistakes were done in the academy and players evaluation after their elimination. I'm sorry to say this but you don't know what's going on at that level. Are they quality? Off course but it took time and money but we're still waiting for that special player on the NT from one of the 3 MLS Academies. Sure they produce players but where did this get the national program or even Youth program? You tell me It's WAY more complex than the "MLS = Superior" thinking 100% agree. I don't mind the small number of Canadians playing in MLS. I also believe that you have to win your spot. But that roster rule and having such a small number of them despite 3 Canadian based teams is caused for pause and thinking this through. Would it make that big of a difference if MLS had no Canadian teams now that there's CPL? Maybe we'd get less than the insignificant number that's there now. You're arguing that TFC would stop their academies. You might be right, but looking at the Fury example who shutdown theirs, they were replaced by Atletico Madrid who have both means and expertise to take over from there. I'm against clubs folding, there's enough space for more but that roster rule is the biggest problem on the Canadian side. If Americans were not domestic on Canadian-based teams, I'd be the first to say that MLS and CPL should co-exist forever because why would I not like to have my cake and eat it too? The 3 MLS teams are producing all those guys and wasted lots of good talents over the years because they are sitting on them not doing much with them. USL-C and USL-1 isn't doing much for them as an agent confirmed that foreign leagues watch CPL and not USL. Not entitling players to perform in MLS is defensible but not loaning them (Montreal taking a pass, TFC not returning the call and Vancouver loaning 1) is not helping the player nor helping Canadian soccer and for what? Because they view CPL as "competition" (Straight from Bill Manning's mouth on a podcast) That kind of piss poor attitude doesn't help players or Canadian soccer. That's playing petty politics. The last 2 NT coach (one who managed Real Madrid in the 90s) said, the problem wasn't talent or skill...it was the lack of minutes at a good level. If you aren't playing meaningful minutes at a high enough level, you can't execute the plan and go out there perform against the US or Mexico or Honduras. This creates structural & recurring DEPTH issues. Now that you have CPL, we can correct this so why are they keeping the attitude and sitting on their talents wasting their potential and just to release them later? That's been their MO for years and this shouldn't still be happening. Launching academies without the expertise makes little sense today, even less financially for CPL. That's why they aren't rushing to start academies from scratch. They prefer to invest in acquiring the expertise over time while working with those who already have it. Through partnership, they can increase their partner's expertise which will benefit them in the long run at a much lower cost. MLS Academies did what FC Edmonton did years ago. They started from scratch with little expertise but colonized the country "competing" against those who were already there while using their brand to get the upper hand. As stated above, it took time, money (loads of it) and failure (LOTS of talents were wasted) to get where they are which in turn soured their relationship with existing academies. Don't underestimate the amount "politics" that played a factor in National team selection. If you're a David and Davies "good", no politics can stop them, but guys that were AS GOOD as MLS academy players got passed on or ignored. Does CSA is to blame for this? Absolutely but saying that MLS organizations are 100% innocent of playing politics is naive and not many buys it anymore. MLS Academies have contributed A LOT. I want to stress this point, but they also impacted the system negatively in other ways playing politics from within the CSA. The CSA was an absolute joke until Montagliani's reforms which addresses flagrant gaps of the past but ended the "exceptionalism" status of the 3 MLS academies, yes that was a thing and with the new CSA academy designation program, other academies can get have their programs officially recognized as well. If that's true, they will watch Champions League and EPL instead. That's an obvious reason why the French follow their own league knowing full well EPL is above, they relate to their team and the identity of the league speaks to them, it's theirs and that matters. If I was wrong, CFL would never be as big as it is in Canada when you have the giant NFL next door. An NFL team in Toronto would not doom the league, just the team in Toronto. You're arguing that existing MLS markets will follow MLS above CPL. Well, yeah, they've been around longer although I believe Vancouver are playing with fire. But making the argument that the over 2/3 of Canadians who don't have an MLS clubs would snob CPL because they would watch MLS instead is not realistic one bit. They have no reason to care because the 3 teams and MLS didn't do the marketing work to give them a reason to care and TV ratings easily back this up. CPL is in a MUCH better position to win the rest of the country where MLS is simply absent, heck it's only recently that they are trying to win their immediate suburbs.
Let say they do move. Wouldnt they get alot of money from selling their spot in MLS? Lets say they move and they have to sell all their foreigners and Cavallini, Crepeau, Piette, and Osorio. The rest of the team is young promising Canadian players who average age is about 23 or 24 y/o now they have a whole CPL league to tear up for them selves all those teams should have money so it the perfect way to strip down and rebuild the right way. All that money goes back into the academies and CPL. The League will literally grow with this generation of young Canadian Players .
It shouldn't be happening now, it wouldn't be a good thing. Best to let the league grow to the point it starts to make sense. I'm convinced that the league can rise as a top CONCACAF league by the end of this decade, if not sooner. Then and only then this scenario will make sense
It really hard for a league to grow that fast to go from USL level to top CONCACAF league with out some major change or money coming in. what would be the projected plan over the next couple of years? Are you saying the MLS move would happen with in that 10 years ? Or what other major event would influence that growth ? To be on par with MLS they do need to expand an get more teams in CPL and get more berths to Concacaf champions League. Maybe Canada hosting the 2026 would help CPL but then that leaves 4 years to accomplish that kind of growth. And we mentioned it before Canada would need to qualify now to the 2022 WC for them to have a good 2026 WC. If you guys qualify to 2022 then that a sure launching point for your golden era of soccer and all these things become more tangible but if not then 2026 wouldnt be much to you guys and all these things become less likely in a 10 year timeline.