Canadian League

Discussion in 'Canada' started by futbol571, Jun 20, 2003.

  1. futbol571

    futbol571 New Member

    Apr 22, 2002
    Houston, TX
    What type of league would you like to see & why?
     
  2. Krammerhead

    Krammerhead Guest

    An independant Canadian league wouldn't be USL as that is an American entity.
     
  3. Captain Canuck

    Captain Canuck New Member

    May 13, 2002
    Ideally I would like to see a new CSL, but one which had a higher profile in Canada than the league which ran in Canada from 1987 to 1992 - including playing in larger stadiums which half the current A-league teams in Canada do (Calgary & Montreal in particular). That doesn't look likely for the forseeable future, unfortunately.

    I'm not sure a "Canadian division" in the MLS would ever happen, not sure if we have enough large corporate markes/cities to sustain 6 MLS teams - 3 is the most that the majority of pro "MLS in Canada" people expect could happen (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver), maybe a 4th with Edmonton simply because they already have a big enough stadium but that is stretching it. Actually 1 MLS team in Canada is stretching it at the moment, until we hear that a stadium actually will be built in Toronto (the Globe & Mail is reporting that the CSA is expected to make an announcement on a new stadium in July, but we'll see).

    An expanded CPSL would not be sufficient for a "Canadian league". This league isn't very high profile in most of Ontario.

    Like Krammerhead, I'm not sure what is meant by a Canadian USL league. As for a Canadian A-league division, that probably wouldn't really make much of a difference from what we have now. The Canadian teams are still going to play their American A-league counterparts, even if we have enough to form our own division. By next year we should when Edmonton joins the league giving us 5 teams, but grouping the 5 Canadian teams into one division won't make much of a noticeable difference.
     
  4. Captain Canuck

    Captain Canuck New Member

    May 13, 2002
    Oops, I meant Calgary & Toronto, rather than Montreal. By Canadian soccer standards, Montreal has an embarassment of stadium riches to choose from.
     
  5. Krammerhead

    Krammerhead Guest

    Nor would it make much sense, considering it would totally go against the A-League regional setup.
     
  6. CalgaryMJ

    CalgaryMJ New Member

    Apr 7, 2002
    Calgary
    New League

    I'd like to see a new Canadian Leaue This would give Canada control of it's own footballing destiny. The USL answers to the the US Soccer Federation and thus is primarily designed to service their needs.

    For the time being I'm more then happy to have Canadian teams piggyback on this organisation in the hopes of growing the sport in this country, but the long term goal has to be a seperate league that answers to the CSA and supports Canadian soccer (as well as giving the teams/country a possible spot in various league/champion competi)tions).

    I just wish that the CSA and Sportsnet in their wisdom would see the benefit of running Soccer Saturday throguh the summer (maybe only once a month) and highlight the game in Canada (as opposed to the EPL). Who knows, maybe they could also broadcast a Voyageur Cup match once in a while in conjucntion with this broadcast - would have to be better then watching boo-Jay baseball (except when they are playing my Expos).
     
  7. DoyleG

    DoyleG Member+

    CanPL
    Canada
    Jan 11, 2002
    YEG-->YYJ-->YWG-->YYB
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    If any Canadian league is to be formed, it would be part of a breakaway from the USL.
     
  8. CalgaryMJ

    CalgaryMJ New Member

    Apr 7, 2002
    Calgary
    Why

    In the interest of growing soccer I can't see the USL "forcing" the Canadian teams to stay. It would allow them to sell the game a bit more patriotically, open the door for new franchises without significantly altering the current structure and open the possibility of another championship match with wich to try and promote the game as the Canadian and American Open Cup and League winners play for North American supremacy!!! (Try and imagine the WWE announcer here trying to make it sound like the Sermon on hte mount).
     
  9. DoyleG

    DoyleG Member+

    CanPL
    Canada
    Jan 11, 2002
    YEG-->YYJ-->YWG-->YYB
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Re: Why

    For some reason, the XFL is flashing in my mind.

    You do have some PDL teams pressing to get into the A-League.
     
  10. Naco

    Naco Member

    Aug 5, 2001
    If Canada had their own league, what would happen to the A-League "franchises" that are there currently?

    Sean
     
  11. Canadian_Supporter

    Staff Member

    Dec 20, 1999
    Prostějov, CR
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I would assume most of the current A-League franchises would join the new Canadian league.

    However, the best chance (IMHO) for a Canadian league is a 'Canadian division' in the A-League.
     
  12. Krammerhead

    Krammerhead Guest

    Which would not be a Canadian league now would it?

    Plus putting all the Canadian teams into their own division creates a whole lot of problems what with teams being grouped regionally.
     
  13. DoyleG

    DoyleG Member+

    CanPL
    Canada
    Jan 11, 2002
    YEG-->YYJ-->YWG-->YYB
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Considering some of the travelling the teams do to the states, going across Canada hardly seems any worse.
     
  14. wva97

    wva97 Member

    Jun 8, 2002
    east coast/west coas
    Re: New League

    I agree. Having a strong league in Mexico, the States, and Canada would be ideal. It would lend creedence to the increasing talent of football in the western hemisphere - and help it keep growing. As for Canadian cities to have teams, why not Quebec? They want to be their own country so badly, perhaps they'll take a MLS/CSL team as a consolation prize considering all the European roots there. Here's how I see a future 10 team league...

    Quebec City, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Vancouver, Halifax, Hull, and Saskatoon and Hamilton could fight it out for the final locale.

    It would be brutal playing games in some of those places in the spring, fall, and even summer... It would be awesome to see Halifax line up against LA in the CONCACAF Final one day...
     
  15. Krammerhead

    Krammerhead Guest

    Thats the point I made in another thread, however thats only fair if all teams did it. But it would not work to just have the Canadian teams doing all the travelling. Vancouver presently travels to Montreal and Toronto once each (during the same road trip) a season. If the Canadian teams were grouped in their own division they'd have to play 2 to 3 times in both those cities, plus to each other city across the country that becomes a part of this divison. Thats a lot of travelling. It would work better in a Canadian league because all teams would be travelling the same. To only have the Canadian teams do it in the A-League would be unfair.
     
  16. Krammerhead

    Krammerhead Guest

    Re: Re: New League

    A team in Ottawa and Hull? Replace Hull with Victoria and you have a start. Also where's Calgary?

    Please tell me, in the cities you listed, why would it be brutal playing in the summer, or even fall for that matter?
     
  17. aofe

    aofe New Member

    Jul 18, 2003
    Toronto, Canada
    We have too many problems here in Canada to sustain a "only Canadian teams" league.
    First and formost the size of our country. 5 1/2 time zones. That means lots of traveling.
    Secondly, we have trouble keeping pro teams altogether, look at Quebec and Winnipeg in the NHL and Vancouver in the NBA and soon, the Expos in baseball. Even here in Toronto, we have trouble attracting over 10,000 fans to games (unless it's the Leafs) and there are about 5 million people who are within a hours drive.
    Third, we lack star players mainly due to a lack of youth development. I can't even think about how many stars we could of had if they had similar training as Man U or AC Millan.
    Finally, I just want to say sadly that the Canadian Baseball league is suspending it's operations at least till next year. I thought it could have been a good blueprint for a soccer league. Seems not.
     
  18. Krammerhead

    Krammerhead Guest

    What crap. Those teams that left the NHL didn't leave because of lack of support. Those teams left because of greedy owners. Same of the NBA's grizzlies. To use an example in thr NFL teams that fill their stadiums are known to have moved. For example did the Rams leave LA because LA is unable to support an NFL franchise? How about Minnesota in the NHL? The North Stars left, didn't mean they couldn't support hockey there? Ever hear of the Wild? Do some homework before you spout these facts off.


    Are the times zones any different in the USA? They have the MLS do they not? How about our A-League teams? The Canadian ones are already travelling across Canada.

    Finally CBL baseball? What does a poorly run extremely low level baseball league have to do with the future of a Canadian league? Heres a quote from an article on the demise of the league:

    "Touted as a double- to triple-A league, many games looked more like rookie ball or Class A. Mallett wouldn't blame an indifference towards minor-league baseball for the CBL's problems."

    A new Canadian league would at least start out at the level of the A-League, which is a far greater level league than the CBL was. It would also have established teams that draw well already waiting to go.
     
  19. DoyleG

    DoyleG Member+

    CanPL
    Canada
    Jan 11, 2002
    YEG-->YYJ-->YWG-->YYB
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Rodway the anti-soccer troll shows up.

    Let's see the travel schedules for the Canadian A-League teams. This doesn't count the all-Canadian matches.

    Calgary and Vancouver play: Seattle, Portland, El Paso, Indiana, Cincinati, Millwaukee, and Minnesota

    Toronto and Montreal play: Rochester, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Charleston, Charlotte, Virgnia Beach, and Richmond.

    Travel and fans hardly seem the problem.
     
  20. aofe

    aofe New Member

    Jul 18, 2003
    Toronto, Canada
    Don't get me wrong, I think a soccer league in Canada would be amazing. However, I don't think it's fesable.
    Krammerhead, you mentioned that teams left becuase of greed/money. How would owners expect to make money in small market Canadian cities for soccer?
    Personally, I would like to see an MLS team in Canada first, maybe even 3-4. Then once interest is built over time, take those teams and make an all Canadian league.
    This league concept has been tried and failed. Even recently they tried the CUSL (I think that's it) trying to convince the Canadian A-league teams to join them. 2-3 years after concept, there is still no league.
     
  21. Krammerhead

    Krammerhead Guest

    Soccer DOESN'T make money here period!! Owners get into soccer not to make money in Canada and the USA they do it as a hobby. None of them make money.

    You wouldn't have the problem of an owner moving his/her team to another city because they have been given a better stadium deal in another city as has happened in the other leagues. Also when those Canadian teams moved "Nordiques and Jets in the NHL and Grizzlies in the NBA" one of the main reasons given were that those teams couldn't continue in those markets when paying players in US dollars while bringing in canadian dollars. You wouldn't have that problem in an all Canadian league. They wouldn't have to go up against american teams with all the money. That is part of the problem you come across with Canadian-American leagues.

    As for small market towns in soccer they seem to be able to create more interest than the big towns. Take Calgary, they were averaging less than 1000 a game this season, they play one game in Saskatoon and draw over 5000. Sure it was a one off event but it proves they would be able to market their own team decently. Toronto on the other had plays in the city with the highest population, yet they have poor attendance for both the Lynx and the Argos. Small market cities mean nothing if you can market the team properly. Look at the A-League, Rochester and Syracuse aren't huge markets but they have the highest attendance.

    The CUSL league you talked about was a flawed concept where Canadian teams would still play in the A-League and play added Canadian teams. That is the 4 Canadianteams would still continue to play A-League while having a seperate table that only counted as a Canadian table. That is not a concept for a real league and it's no wonder it never got off the table.

    We won't have teams in the MLS so I won't even get into that.
     
  22. DennisM

    DennisM Member

    Dec 10, 2000
    Nya Sverige
    Two of the problems that the hockey teams are having with the NHL are ticket prices but I believe that the new Senators owner is looking for a way to combat that and all Canadian teams are hurt by the difference between the dollars. Thus, a Canadian league should have no money problems that way. But the problem with a national league is the size of the country and for sure the distance between the cities once you go beyond Sudbury.

    "Also when those Canadian teams moved "Nordiques and Jets in the NHL and Grizzlies in the NBA" one of the main reasons given were that those teams couldn't continue in those markets when paying players in US dollars while bringing in canadian dollars. You wouldn't have that problem in an all Canadian league. They wouldn't have to go up against american teams with all the money. That is part of the problem you come across with Canadian-American leagues"

    Sorry. I didn't read your post first. Also there isn't quite the difference in TV markets. I mean a Toronto team would get more money from TV than say a team from Halifax but it would be as big as the difference between a team from Halifax and a team from New York.

    Also I just wanted to know what was the latest on the CUSL? I mean with the national stadium plan being toss around and the men's national team being at a rather low point. Things have to get better.
     
  23. bright

    bright Member

    Dec 28, 2000
    Central District
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What level is the CPSL at competition-wise? Division 1,2,3? Also, what kind of budgets do the teams have?

    Could some of these teams make the jump up? I have heard that the Ottawa Wizards were talking about moving to the A-League.

    - Paul
     
  24. divingheader

    divingheader Member

    Nov 10, 2001
    St John, NB, Canada
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Originally posted by Krammerhead:
    "We won't have teams in the MLS so I won't even get into that."

    You make some good points but this is a dumb statement. MLS will put a team where ever there is an owner that will (and can) foot the bill. That does not necessarily mean the bill for a new SSS as long as there is a good stadium already in place. All we need is an owner to step forward. All details of who can play (canadians counted as foriegners?) are just minor details which would be instantly decided if the owner stepped up. And the single entity structure of MLS would help out the canadian team(s), they wouldn't be competing in a open market for players. I bet it happens, 5 years or less.

    Last winter I asked on this board about MLS games on FSWCanada. "No Interest" I was told. Probably the only email sent as part of my coast-to-coast campaign for FSWCanada to add MLS games was sent by me. I was just watching Metrostars vs San Jose on FSWCanada and it occured to me that the canadian soccer supporters that post on BS need to be more hopeful. Try trying.
     

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