Can we create a board for the Newbie Know-it-Alls?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by cyberthoth, Sep 4, 2007.

  1. TheLostUniversity

    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Feb 4, 2007
    Greater Boston
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If so, I would be gingerly twinkling the toes on me bum foot just about...Now!
    Just in case I'm Rooney, why can't you give me any peace, Granpa Fergie? :D
     
  2. TheLostUniversity

    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Feb 4, 2007
    Greater Boston
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a smashing concept! As proper Platonic philosopher-kings you'll be having no need for nubile young women, what with all your Symposia and all. So, you take the Cave, we take the Women. The Agora is such a rewarding market :D
     
  3. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, but it doesn't matter. It's silly to callup players that are just coming off injuries as the last thing semi-fit players need is extra travel and a disruption of their schedule.
     
  4. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, that's probably not the reason.

    And no, it's intelligent to have a cooperative arrangement with the clubs as long as it's a mutually beneficial relationship.
     
  5. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Upon further reflection, I've come to the conclusion that the inspiration for my idea are the founding elders of the Morman church and the prophet Mohammed (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), not Plato.
     
  6. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And yet, we have Feilhaber coming in, despite Billy Davies' misgivings.
     
  7. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    10,000 posts or 5 years.

    BTW, wrt Wolff, Mastro and Zags, let's not compare them to Cobi and Richie circa 2001 or even 2004. The depth of the available talent far exceeds the olden days. Besides, Arena's player selection and tactics were as much to blame for the US being down at Panama and Jamaica as anything else.

    FWIW, I am not against seeing Wolff after a long pause. Arnaud actually has plenty of pace to offer on a flank and would be an improvement over someone like Ralston.

    The Hardworking Bob has made plenty of arguable decisions to quarrel about. This roster selection is not one of his major gaffes.
     
  8. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Trying to speed up your crowning, I see. :)
     
  9. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, I am not convinced that there is anything wrong with Feilhaber. In any event, Feilhaber is a regular and for so-called prominent friendlies, you have to bring in your regulars. Altidore, for all his potential, is simply not proven at the international level as Feilhaber is.
     
  10. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You may be right on your first point (I've tried to follow that situation as closely as I can, and the whole thing has been vaguely inscrutable), and no argument at all with your second.
     
  11. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I'd take Billy Davies' statements over your ascertion... and even then... u mentioned unfit guys that should not have a place here:
    so which one is it? guys that are half-fit or not calling them in? Experience is not an excuse here either... same issue with Convey also...
     
  12. MichaelMc

    MichaelMc New Member

    Jun 17, 2007
    I'd call you a newbie since you've only been following the Nats since the late 90's. My first match was in the 70's and I've been following them ever since. I'm sure there are others on here with a low number of posts or a recent join date that have followed the Nats even longer then I have.

    There's as much irrational hysteria or just plain stupidity from the 10,000 post, 1999 join date posters as your so called newbies. Judge the post and posters on their content. It's quality that's important not quantity, and don't forget to use your ignore list. I've got 11 people on mine and I've only been back here for 3 months. The IL makes this a much more tolerable place.
     
  13. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Can we make it an even dozen, or am I already there? :D

    I agree with you, though, every post has to be judged on its own merits.
     
  14. speedcake

    speedcake Member

    Dec 2, 1999
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    lol Where/When have I seen a thread like this before....



    :p god Ive been here too long
     
  15. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Newbie!!!!:cool:

    Edit: MichealMc beat me to it....
     
  16. Deep Wilcox

    Deep Wilcox BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 5, 2007
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought the comparison with Feilhaber's situation was about Adu? We can all hope that Bradley has all the politics figured out. But like th magic 8 ball says; "all signs point to no."
     
  17. cyberthoth

    cyberthoth Member

    Nashville SC
    Aug 7, 2000
    Nashville, TN
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I certainly don't disagree with you or even remotely say that I'm an expert on Soccer. If you've been watching that long you clearly understand why we need vets on the team and I seriously doubt you're hear to spout nonsense.

    My post was aimed at newbies to the sport who are in turn Newbies to Bigsoccer.
     
  18. MichaelMc

    MichaelMc New Member

    Jun 17, 2007
    I still disagree. If I was a mod I'd ban more long-timers than newbs. People with thousands of posts who have been on here for 5 to 8 years should know better by now. There are some very insightful longtimers but some just leave me shaking my head, that's why I post sporadically and ended up leaving 4 years ago.

    The ignore list makes BS tolerable. I hope there isn't a max limit, must go test that now.
     
  19. obewan

    obewan New Member

    Jul 24, 2005
    NC
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We've been following the USMNT the same amount of time, but I didn't start posting here until two years ago (after a year or so of lurking).

    Manzanas y naranjas. A friendly against Brazil is not exactly a qualifier in Costa Rica. While the level of skill from the competition should be higher at Soldier Field, the gamesmanship, the elements, and the hate faced in a qualifier at the Saprissa, in Guatemala, or in Mexico are worlds apart. I would not gripe if BB called up Mastroeni for a road qualifier, but we should use these friendlies to find out who else may be able to play meaningful minutes in those games. You know what Mastro will bring to the table. That's my gripe with BB's choosing Mastroeni (nepotism?). ;)

    I agree with you here to some degree. We do need veteran players in our player pool. It makes perfect sense to load your roster with veterans for road qualifiers and blend in some young talent to go along with them. Cobi is a good example of this. However, Bradley (son) and Bornstein (step-son ;)) weren't exactly unfamiliar faces to the elder Bradley. Feilhaber is a young player who came from off the radar and earned a chance under BB. The question, though, is who will step in if Mastro, DMB, LD, or Gooch goes down with an injury? Now's the time to be finding out, not in Costa Rica.

    I agree with you. I hate the empty bucket...it's a concession that you (as a coach) believe you either A) are weak in the middle/back or B) are facing a superior opponent. Not that you want to spread the field and give Brazil tons of space to attack, but I believe the empty bucket results in the ball being played in your half of the field for most of the game. I'd much rather have Kaka and Ronaldinho track back and win balls in their half of the field than I would have them in my half of the field pressuring my midfielders and defenders with their passing/ball skills. Since it seems like it's been so long since I remember seeing Wolff in a US jersey, I don't have a problem with his call-up (in spite of his age). I don't know Arnaud, but why not? My main gripe with Bradley is his continued use of Mastroeni and, to a lesser degree, Bornstein. It's comparable to the Albright/Ralston situation under Arena. You know who you have (if you need them), why not try to find someone who's better? For me, it's not always about developing a starting XI, but it's finding out who can help you if you lose one of those XI...developing a second XI. Who replaces Donovan if he goes down? I just don't think we're very deep right now.

    I think the heart of your post is right...some folks are simply looking to gripe. I think the reason you see a lot of "Newbies" coming on here to vent their frustrations is either 1) they like soccer but don't know a soccer ball from a hand grenade or 2) they've been following US soccer for a while and have finally found a place where they can vent (trust me, my wife doesn't talk soccer with me!). It is frustrating for me at times, too. I'd rather someone say, "Crap, not Wolff. I've been reading the pressers of his games in Germany this year, and it seems he looks a step slow," not, "Crap, not Wolff," or "nepotism."
     
  20. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    Because they'd maintain their composure and never blow a deciding PK to win the game, right?

    Seriously, it's one thing to stock some veterans when the newbies are out of MLS, whose main "hostile" experience is playing to 5,000 sun tanning dudes and dudettes in HDC. It's another when you're getting your newbs from a screaming AOL-Arena or Abe Lenstra.

    To those who have experienced the Ultras in Europe, the Central American venues are second bananas.
     
  21. obewan

    obewan New Member

    Jul 24, 2005
    NC
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Right now, I think most of our newbies fall in the first category not the second. If Mikey keeps his starting spot at H'veen for the full season, I'll consider him more of a vet in spite of his age. Same with Benny at Derby...he needs to earn it then keep it. However, most of our inexperienced players are MLSers or from second-tier Euro leagues. I'd like to see them have a few games in A-level friendlies before we trot them out in a qualifier at Saprissa or Azteca because player X is injured.
     
  22. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not true at all.

    Saprissa,Azteca,mazatenango,Guadalajara...brutal places to play away quals.
    European club ball doesn't compare-they cry about monkey noises and sectarian songs.What would they do if they had piss and batteries thrown at them?
     
  23. Bigrose30

    Bigrose30 Member+

    Sep 11, 2004
    Jersey City, NJ
    It's not that the veterans need to come back to play against Brazil because they need the experience. The young players do. Nobody is arguing that.

    The vets need to be called in so that they remain a part of the team. So that the new players can play alongside them and they get used to each other. It's the balance that's important...keeps the continuity in the program. It helps the young players get more from the experience.

    If there was no need for this, then BB wouldn't call in any veterans until WCQ. In some cases under Arena, that's what happened. Claudio Reyna was a good example of that. He skipped out on the 2005 Gold Cup, and very much irked Arena to the point where he publically considered freezing him out. You combine his absence then with his constant injury absence, and you wonder if he even knew half the names on the squad. How many times had Claudio played with Clint Dempsey before WC 2006?

    This roster is a good mix of different types of players, and is further shaped by the availbility of players due to club committments.

    Core Players:
    Donovan
    Beasley
    Howard
    Bocanegra
    Dempsey
    Convey
    Onyewu
    Cherundolo

    Young Players:
    Feilhaber
    Bradley
    Pearce
    Simek
    Johnson
    Seitz
    Spector

    Veterans:
    Wolff
    Zavagnin

    Older Newcomers:
    Arnaud (rewarding an MLS standout with a cap, plus no club game)
    Demerit (classic late bloomer)


    Notable Omissions:
    Clark (club committments)
    Altidore (injury/inexperience...you'll have to ask BB)
    Conrad (the only omission that puzzles me)
    Bornstein (club comittments)
    Ching (injury)
    Twellman (club comittments)

    This is a good balanced roster that basically picked itself. If you want a team full of U-20's and U-23's, you'll have to wait until the Olympics.
     
  24. Bigrose30

    Bigrose30 Member+

    Sep 11, 2004
    Jersey City, NJ
    I'd have to say playing in puddle filled fields at the Equator, at 95+ degrees and air so humid it makes the camera sweat, in a stadium full of crazed fans shouting Osama at you after spending the previous night partying outside your hotel room, all the while protected only by soldiers with automatic weapons (who knows what these guys would do if the fans charged?) is a pretty stress filled environment. Especially after your hotel room got changed at the last minute to some backwater town an hour and a half from the stadium, yet somehow still remained public knowledge to the home fans.

    Oh, and if you think the home team is pumped up from the crowd, you should check out the refs, who seem to take sadistic pleasure in pleasing the crowd by punishing your clean tackles, and looking the other way when you get chopped down to start a break the other way.

    Perhaps this is a bit extreme, but you get the idea. We tied Panama 1-1 down there in 2004, and were lucky to get away with a point. We beat them 6-0 at home a few months later.
     
  25. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While Altidore is not Feilhaber, you are correct that the idea of not calling in half fit players for friendlies should be absolute. Personally, I don't believe Davis re Feilhaber's health, but that's just me -- I think 90% of what club coaches say are lies. If Feilhaber is truly coming off a real injury, he shouldn't be here.

    It's not the same issue here -- Convey is as healthy as he is going to be -- he is just not match sharp due to a lack of playing time-- and this game will help him if he gets in.
     

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