Can someone explain to me the strategy of the 4-3-3 formation?

There is no such thing as 'the' 4-3-3. Ajax have played 4-3-3 for years and won the CL with it in 95. We play 4-4-2 now though.

4-3-3 usually has the backs and the wingers go forward when in posession.

 

I always like the 4-3-3 its what was happening in Brazilian soccer when I was growing up in the 80's.

I especially like the specialed right and left wingers with the # 9 in between them.

Here is a 4-3-3 lineup the only to ever win the Brazilian Championship undefeated in 1979:


Benitez (#1 - Paraguayan goalie)

Joao Carlos (2 - Father of upcoming Diego star)
Mauro Pastor (3)
Mauro Galvao (6 - 17 years old at time, just retired WC86, 90)
Claudio Mineiro (4)

Batista (#10 - A Def mid a prequel to Dunga -WC 8,82)
Jair (#8 - An attacking Right Mid)
Falcao (#5 The team Brain Left Mid WC 82)

Valdomiro (#7 - Classic style Right Winger WC 74)
Bira (#9 - Striker)
Mario Serio (#11 - Left Winger though he wasnt the classic "take the ball deep and cross" type.

 

You need wing mids with the speed to get deep. I would guess the strategy depends on the players strengths and weaknesess, but so would the formation I suppose.

 

With the right players and tactical decisions a 4-3-3 is usually a guarantee for succes as 99% of the teams have great difficulty adapting to it.

 

The strategy? Attack like hell and hope that you score more than the other team.

I'd like to see the US try this out sometime in the near future with Beasley as left wing forward and Donovan as right wing forward.

Stutgart(sic) of the Bundesliga uses this formation.

 

(W) Germany played a variaton of 4-3-3 in the early 70's -- including Euro '72 and WC'74, winning both. they played 3-1-3-3, with Beckenbauer as the "1"

The Cosmos also favored a 4-3-3 during part of their run in the NASL. The 3 mids worked as an inside triangle, with a center foreward and two wingers, I believe.

Brazil '70 supposedly lined up in a 4-3-3, though it had strong echoes of their classic 4-2-4.

And I think Italy played a 4-3-3 in WC'82, but by then formations had become so fluid, it is better to think in terms of roles rather than positions played:
Claudio Gentile was a D-mid in charge of hacking Maradona where ever he popped up on the field.

I say go back to the 2-3-5! Goals! Goals! Goals!

 

I believe Rangers did (under Advokaat at least). Aston Villa has run the formation out this season (on occasion) as well, but they haven't seen much success with it.

The formation can result in a lot of trouble if the team doesn't maintain enough possession and keep the ball out of their zone. It is pretty vulnerable to quick attacks through the middle of the field.

In this day and age with top-notch all-around midfielders like Viera, you would probably have to pinch the midfield in to protect the middle - or at least have an outstanding ballwinner at center mid. You would also need at least one of your center-halfs to be pretty pacy (to thwart counter-attacking situations), since he doesn't have a dmid providing cover.

I would assume you wouldn't want a pure target forward (at least not an immobile one like Carsten Jancker or Jan Koller) in this day-and-age. To be sure he should be strong with his head, but he should also be quick enough to make a lot of runs to pull defenders away and open up space for through balls.

 

4-3-3 will be a thing of the past I'm afraid.

The world is running out of real wingers.

 

More recently, didn't Louis VanGaal use a 4-3-3 during his first stay at Barcelona? I mean when he was having difficulties w/ Rivaldo?

As a youth coach, we tried a 4-3-3, but the midfielders have to work so hard that it was difficult for us to implement.

 

While I can't categorically state that Stuttgart hasn't lined up in a 4-3-3, their regular formation is more a 4-4-2, with Kuranyi and Amantidis (sp?) the forwards, and Balakov and Hleb the most offensive of the MFs (Balakov centrally and Hleb down the wing). Teams in the BL that do use a 4-3-3 regularly are Hannover and Moenchengladbach (although since their coach resigned, it remains to be seen if they'll stick with a 4-3-3). Rostock also plays 4-3-3, but it's an odd set up. Is it a coincidence that all three of these teams are relegation strugglers?

 

There are two types of this formation the real old long ball style think 50's England and then the Ajax of the 70's with slick passing and creative play like that of Johan Cryuff.

This was the formation I grew up with and I started out real young playing sweeper since our back was kept as a diamond rather than a flat back allowing a bit more attacking play from our center mid, soon I was moved up to center forward.

They way we played this was mostly just exploiting my pace and hitting me through balls and running at the defense with the ball as a center striker but I played out to the wings a fair bit as well and swung in crosses to the plyers I overlapped with.

After a while I moved on to better passing teams in better leagues and I played all across the front three, on these team we moved very well and most things were played as a triangle or in a diamond in terms of short passing till a through ball opened up in the attacking half of the pitch then we would tear through it, but we were an attacking team, some teams who played this style played very defense minded. I can't really say how there style of play was first hand though because almost everyteam I have played for has been and attacking squad.

Most teams that play a 4-4-2 these days though are closer to a 4-3-3 then you would really think, with and an attacking center mid, withdrawn forward(Zidane, Rivaldo,Totti), who plays much like the 4-3-3 center forwards.

If you really want to read a little more in-depth for this formation go to www.coachmarino.com and look under the chalk talk section.

 

I admit that the 4-4-2 is a very flexible formation, but just because you have an attacking midfielder in the hole doesn't make it similar to a 4-3-3. Real's forwards don't play like wingers at all. I think that Inter does what you are talking about (with Recoba).

I think that AFCA is right - there is a real lack of players with the skill set of the classic wing-type forwards. You see more hybridized players like Rivaldo, Beckham, Figo, Giggs, Kewell and Henry who all played winger or outside roles at one point in their careers, but play much more through the center than guys like George Best. This may be the result of the modern emphasis on team defense (that incorporates the forwards) and the fact that players specialize at different positions earlier in their careers as opposed to the "traditional" Dutch system.

 

True Real doen't play this way with Zidane, I was refering to the French national team which for a while lined up with him as the 3rd forward just in a deeper role. Real is not a good example of anyone really playing in a traditional role because they seem to have a lot of "free" players i.e. Roberto Carlos and Zidane who play where they see fit at the moment of action (which I feel if you are good enough to do it then why the hell not).

I was really getting at Totti as the player who plays and attacking mid on paper but is more like a 3rd forward who plays the middle with Roma most of the time, Rivaldo did this a Barca a bit when Van Gaal wasn't holding him out on the left, but really he can't do it at Milan beacuse of Rui Costa in the midfield and the fact that they would get in each others way.

I didn't mean that all attacking mids in a 4-4-2 are close to center striker in a 4-3-3 but there are a few attacking mid's that do play more as a 3rd striker than a true midfeilder and that is as close to a 4-3-3 as most teams get even more so if they play a diamond in the back allowing a "stopper" to act more like a defensive mid.

I think there are some players who show some of the skills of an old style center forward like Shearer, and Vieri with there strong physical in the box type of play.

I agree totally that there is a lack of true wing players in the game in the classic sense and I think that has a lot to do with the fact that defense is different now and the fact that most teams don't play a style requiring the outside players to have the ball skils and change of pace they once needed, it seems the ability to run all day as oppose to running with the ball is all that is required now.

Duff, Steve MacManaman,Giggs and Deneilson are really the only four I rate as player that could really fill that type of role.

 

I believe this is how Stuttgart lines up:

Kuranyi----Amantidis
------Balakov
-MF----MF---MF
D----D----D----D

Balakov floats where ever he wants to.

 

Stuttgart usually lines up in a 4-4-2, with Balakov as an attacking MF playing centrally. I took a look at Stuttgart's line-up in all 7 of their BL games this year. In all they lined up in a 4-4-2, and in all but one the MF was a diamond with an attacking MF, a defensive MF, and two wide MFs. Typical was the Gladbach game:

----Kuranyi--Amanatidis

--------Balakov
Hleb----------------Meira
--------Soldo

My source is www.kicker.de (find the 1.BL table, click on Stuttgart, click on Termine--which indicates the scores of games to date--click at the end of the line for any one game--which will give you a detailed game summary--then click on Taktische Aufstellung--which will give you how they lined up). Take a look at Hannover for a team that is committed to the 4-3-3.

 

I agree that the world is running out of real wingers, but if a team does have the players to play a 4-3-3 that fact will make the formation even more effective.

 

Random Thoughts

Didn't the US trot out in a 4-3-3 in the debacle against Honduras at RFK during qualifying? There were more holes in our midfield than swiss cheese that day.

Crossing seems to be a lost art; it seems like there are so few players who can do it conistently anymore.

Like any formation, the 4-3-3 could be "defensive" or "offensive", depending on the team and the situation.

 

Marc Overmars and Joaquin are also pretty successful in out-and-out winger roles in La Liga, though Overmars' style isn't to some people's taste.

And I think some of the players who are currently in the game in more "hybrid roles" as backs, wing-backs or forwards (Ashley Cole, Luis Enrique, Kewell, Rommedahl, Peter Lovenkrands, Cafu, Didier Agathe and Roberto Carlos) could turn out well as classic wingers, if it was more of an emphasis in their training or (in the case of the older players) their development.

 

Re: Random Thoughts

PAsoccerfan, we were an Earnie Stewart penalty kick away from cinching that game up and possibly blowing them out. Instead, it was saved.

With all of the attacking talent that we have coming up, I would like to see the 4-3-3 be given another shot:

----Beasley-BMB-Donovan
----Convey-JOB-Klein
--D-----D-----D-----D

 

You're probably right, and Fox Sports World had it wrong.

 

Ajax - Dynamo Kiev

I could have sworn Ajax lined up in a 4-3-3 vs Dynamo kiev last fall when JOB was still in the line up. Or is my memory playing tricks?

 

Re: Re: Random Thoughts

JOB is solid, but he would have to work like a maniac playing in that role. I think that I would move Klein back and give the right midfield position to someone who was a little better on the ball so that Convey and the right-mid would be covering the main playmaking responsibilities.

Actually, I might do it this way.

---Convey-BMB-Donovan----
---JOB----Mastroeni--Mulrooney
DMB---Boca-----Pope---Klein

Klein and DMB would give you great defense and athleticism from the back, you would have three solid ballwinners in the middle of the field and JOB would be excellent linking up with Convey and the over-lapping DMB. JOB, Convey and Klein would all be able to cross the ball into BMB very well and
Donovan would be able to play more of a free role in possession as Klein moved up into the attack.

Ultimately, I think Convey is better suited for the forward role than DMB, due to his predatory instincts, his better shot, his better crossing ability his more creative ball-handling and his relative lack of defensive skills. He scored more goals domestically than DMB (last season) and seems to be more willing to pull the trigger. On the other hand, DMB would be great in an Ashley Cole type role out of the back. He is such a good defender, that I am not sure playing in such an advanced role would let him apply his skills the best.

Of course, this would work even better if we had a healthy Reyna at the right mid role. He would probably be ideal in this type of role if he still has the legs.

One player that this formation would be very ill-suited to - Clint Mathis. He doesn't (presently) have the fitness or speed that would be required to fill any of the roles, unless we went for a tricky central player (Henrik Larsson type) as opposed to a target forward.

 

wingers need to know how to cross, DMB cant cross a ball for his life.

 

I have seen the 4-3-3 played like this...

LF .... CF .... RF
..... AM . AM
......... DM
LB .. CB .. CB .. RB
......... GK


If you have some strong defenders who can support the attack, but you don't have outside mids that can go end to end, then this isn't too bad of a formation. You can also invert the triangle in the center to make it more defensive.

One of the keys is that when you are in your own end, trying to get possession to get out, your outside forwards need to provide the outside option. When the ball is on the left, the LF would slide back and the other two fowards would slide over.

.. CF .... RF
LF... AM . AM
......... DM
LB .. CB .. CB .. RB
......... GK