Can Ronald Koeman Lead the Oranje Crush to Victory

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by Orange14, Dec 10, 2022.

  1. aveslacker

    aveslacker Member+

    Ajax
    United States
    Apr 2, 2006
    Old Madras
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think a win today all but guarantees Oranje direct qualification. The game comes on at a good time for me so I may actually be able to watch.
     
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  2. aveslacker

    aveslacker Member+

    Ajax
    United States
    Apr 2, 2006
    Old Madras
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My stream just crapped out (after the 2-0) but I don't see the result being in doubt.
     
  3. 76557


    What purpose is being served with playing Weghorst as a sub for Depay?
     
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  4. VI's Orange on Rapport: highest grade for Memphis and Frenkie de Jong
    upload_2025-10-12_21-51-52.png
    upload_2025-10-12_21-52-32.png
     
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  5. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Memphis looks like he has lost at least 5 kilos. Other than just walking to take corners he looks more fit now than in the last five years.
     
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  6. With a draw in Poland, they will have to outscore the corrupt score of Spain to get past us, in case we lose the last match.
     
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  7. gabrielguilarte

    Feb 23, 2016
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Since Poland won, I think we just need to draw with them to go through.
     
  8. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    A couple of thoughts...

    J. Timber looked really good at the RCB position in two matches, though suffice to say, the level of competition was not that great to begin with. I like his ability and confident bringing the ball forward, and at times acting as an extra midfielder. Koeman said this RCB position is one of the two decisions left he needed to make. J. Timber certainly made his case this round!! I think the question is if he would be strong and robust enough to challenge more-threatening central forwards. Then there's the unfortunate fact that he doesn't necessarily play as a CD week-in week-out at club. And finally, the issue with his height, or lack thereof. This might not be a big deal. Van de Ven locks in the LB position, so presumably in set pieces Van de Ven could take the assignment guarding the bigger/taller CF's.

    The midfield trio is painfully obvious... Frenkie de Jong, Gravenberch and Reijnders are world-class and way too good to be left on the bench. Can all three gel and build the chemistry in time for the World Cup?!? Though (on paper) a better fit as a no. 10, J. Kluivert isn't anywhere close to Frenkie/Reijnders/Gravenberch level. Then there's Xavi... waiting for his time. He could very well be settled in the wing again. Or come off the bench. He brought the energy and speed to the game when he subbed in.
     
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  9. 76746


    I really don't think J. Timber as CD is a good idea.
    I even think he's not a defender, but a midfielder.
    To bring back the reason why the brothers left Feyenoord for Ajax, was that they wanted to play in the midfield, but Feyenoord Academy had defensive ideas.
    So they joined Ajax. Then Ajax decided they should play in the defense. Jurrien agreed, Quinten refused and joined FC Utrecht as midfielder and then rejoined with Feyenoord.
    Timber simply lacks the hight and the power for a CD spot.
    At Ajax he played decent to good in the CD spot, but that was for the greater part due to his excellent Argentinian fellow CD. The Argentinian left and that season Timber struggled as a CD.
    Arsenal isnot going to play him in the center of the defense.
    It's telling that Koeman, despite Timber's shortcomings as a CD still starts him there. Clueless.
     
  10. Next match is Poland.
    Is Koeman really going to put Timber against Lewandowski?
     
  11. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Thanks for the very bad memory of that ridiculous Euro 84 Qualifying disaster.
    :cry:
     
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  12. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    did you see how high Timber got off the ground on the corner kick that he just sent a bit over the bar? I also note that Timber is taller and quicker than Fabio Cannovaro who was a CB and World Cup winner with Italy.
     
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  13. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Timber has been playing at a World Class level this season at RB after doing fantastically at LB to start his Arsenal career.
    His versatility is top level, and even his aerial ability has greatly improved.
    I don’t think it’s a problem if he was to continue at RCB over Van Hecke, De Ligt, or De Vrij simply because he’s better than all of them, but it’s a fair point about him not playing that position currently at Arsenal, although he was excellent at Ajax in that same RCB role.
    Timber’s tactical and technical ability are outstanding, with his ability to read the game and step into Midfield with the ball are really high level stuff.
    Koeman has other things to figure out, but I don’t think it’s a bad idea to continue with Timber as the RCB.
     
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  14. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    He’s really truly improved in that area and deserves much credit for doing so.
    Like I said the versatility is such a big factor for him, Arsenal, and Oranje to utilize.
    Technically so solid which ironically his twin lacks with his heavy feet and sloppy passing that he displays often.
     
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  15. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    I think Timber deployed at RCB is a case-by-case basis. It is not a one-size-fits-all and hence should not be automatically given. Koeman should scout the opposing CF's and apply his wisdom. Now, I may very well be over-estimating his capabilities here, but that's why Koeman is paid the big bucks (while I am here typing on a discussion board giving him hell :p)

    For a large number of matches, especially when Oranje play inferior teams (i.e. those that plan to sit deep and play defensively), J. Timber in the starting line-up makes a ton of sense. He is a really nice asset in the attacking build-up given his comfort level in passing and bringing the ball... while in defending, he should get decent coverage from the midfielders (Frenkie de Jong or Gravenberch are pretty good defenders in their own right). However, against the powerhouse team with intimidating attacking forces, I think Van Hecke is a more logical choice. He is stronger, meaner and more robust. He has been tested (v. Spain, twice! 3-3 and 2-2 draws), and he gets a healthy stream of challenges playing in EPL and Europa league.
     
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  16. We're talking about the WC (I presume we make it), in which three hosts need to be served the losers of the participants.
    So my guess is we only get one team destined to never make it to the KO phase and also not that inferior to begin with.
     
  17. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member+

    Apr 5, 2005
    I think those odds look correct. It is likely 1 of Spain, France, Brazil, Argentina or Germany will win. Portugal, England, Netherlands and Colombia may get to quarter final. Maybe we get a surprise from one Asian team (Japan) or one African team, but none of these teams have the talent, coaching, depth or mentality to win the big trophy like those 5.
    If you go to wiki for Netherlands national football team, you can see the squad is likely set with a few players from recent call up may swap places with some players in the squad. I don't mind Ake as a bench player but I prefer De Ligt over De Vrij. Hopefully Meerdink or Lang play better and make the team. The striker will be led by a pair of 34 and 32 years old. Look at the top 5 teams and you see the differences.
     
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  18. 77217


    I find those 5 you mentioned defensively rather weak.
    Of the other 5 in the defense Belgium is weak too and England is mediocre. Portugal and Colombia are defensively unknown to me.
    We have the best defensive options of all, as long as Virgil can keep his concentration 100%.
    Our midfield has several formation options of world class too, in addition to our defensive options, but the 1 million dollar question is wich defense-midfield combo is the best, or which combo's work well together.

    Poku atm is developing into a lethal winger in the Buli, though he's also very good as a striker!
     
  19. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member+

    Apr 5, 2005
    Netherlands have a good team and comparable; however I rank de La Fuente, Ancelotti, Scaloni, Tuchel, Nagelsmann and even Deschamps better manager than Koeman.
     
  20. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    There is no one to fear in World Football I truly believe, and all of these teams have some type of flaw or issue.
    As much as they drive me crazy I think Oranje are definitely capable of Winning the World Cup, and I say this watching tons of these qualification matches.
     

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