Can Dortmund recover from this financial mess?

I have zero doubts there. I would expect Dortmund, if the club is relegated, to be back in the Bundesliga in the minimum amount of seasons necessary. The tradition and the fans are amazing. I just fear things will get worse before they get better.

 

Btw, Dortmund is DFL's second biggest club. If BVB vanish Premiere from 2006 won't pay as much money as they do (not even speaking of their monopoly), attendances drop, etc.. So DFL has completely other interests than DFB. While DFL wants to see the league prosper, DFB is more of a political institution that covers the whole of football.

Maybe it would be even good to restart in Oberliga. In my case it even doesn't really matter as whenever a team of Borussia is on the pitch, it is my team. Then 500km from Berlin to Dortmund are just the way to get to see my club.

 

Re: Can Dortmund recover from this financi al mess?

Good point. I, as a newcomer to Germany Football, tend to group the DFB and DFL into one bunch.

And that is the way it should be!!!

note: Harald Schmidt is leading off with a Dortmund joke. He is a VFB fan, so it makes sense.

 

Re: Can Dortmund recover from this financi al mess?

I like Schmidt, so that's ok. At least it is more or less his duty to pick up the latest news. Stefan Raab did just the same (in a lame way though).

 

I think the next 3 weeks will show. In my point of view, today Dortmund as a stock notated company declared substantial financial problems and that they could not pay their bills if there will not be an agreement with the creditors.

I think that i am right that at this point the company crisis is openly manifested and by german company law, the chairmans have to declare "Insolvenz" within 3 weeks from such a declaration of crisis if there is no solution or they are punishable by court.

 

Re: Can Dortmund recover from this financi al mess?

I can imagine that it would be lame.

I am signing off for now. Good luck for you and your BVB.

 

Keith's Response: Harris, don't be so quick to bury BVB. Had we listened to the press' predictions last year, BVB would be dead and buried already. The new management should have some cards to play.

As for the old management, I wish gross mismanagement and utter incompetency were against the law. As I said on my BVB list a few weeks ago, may they be spat upon by every BVB fan they ever come face to face with in the future.

 

Unbelievable. I am amazed that things are this bad (same with the match-fixing scandal). What an unbelievable clusterfukc. I'm kind of ambivalent about the whole situation: on one hand, the club spent money like a drunken sailor, so they deserve everything they are faced with. On the other hand, it was just a handful of people responsible for all of the stupid decisions, and it is really sad that so many fans have to suffer the consequences.

Plus I think it is really wishful thinking to say that if the BVB gets relegated to the fourth division (which is what, the Oberliga?), that they will be back in the Bundesliga within three seasons. There is no way to guarantee that. Even if they have the most fans and thus the most money, that doesn't mean they'll be the best team in the league every year. And even if it takes them three years to get back into the BL, it will be many, many years before they reach the level they were at before.

I just find it incredible that Meier and Niebaum managed to blow so much money within such a short amount of time. They must have been lighting their cigars with 100 euro notes - either that or using them to snort lines off of strippers' asses!

 

Keith's Response: Meier and Niebaum simply failed to plan for the "downs" that accompany the "ups" in football. They knew ABSOUTELY NOTHING about the changes in the sport since the mid-90's and thought they could simply buy success by overpaying for stars. They thought it was that simple.

If someone were total up the money they've blown on horrible transfer deals and decisions, I'd bet that it would be nearly enough to hold off the vultures circling the Westfalenstadion right now.

They were so ********ing arrogant, they STILL refuse to believe that their STUPID TRANSFER ACTIVITIES are the major reason this club has gone down the toilet!

Another stupid decision they made was in expanding the stadium again. Instead of waiting until the club could safely afford it, they took a gamble and lost.

They gambled to upgrade a stadium that didn't need upgrading. They were jealous of Schalke's new stadium and couldn't stand that Schalke were getting more attention than we were.

People talk about Word Cup prestige and future profits from the stadium. What good is it if you don't have a f#(kin' future?

This isn't all "hindsight" on my part. I spoke out against management and their stupid transfer decisions three years ago. Even as we were "handed" the 2001-2002 title, I told others that someone needed to check management because they were running the club into the ground.

Those on my BVB list know I spoke out against the stadium improvements when they were announced because I thought they were unnecessary and we really couldn't afford them.

Some basically told me I didn't know what I was talking about.

Boy, would I love to be able to give all of them a big "I TOLD YOU SO" and a big "IN YOUR FACE"!

But sadly for us, we're all going down together. Because we trusted in the blind (Niebaum - In charge but obviously didn't know what was going on), the deaf (Meier - Warned repeatedly about their stupid transfer decisions by a small group of fans) and the stupid (Zorc - Who basically holds a title with very little apparent actual managerial skills).

Again, may those three be spat upon by every BVB fan they come across in the future........

 

The stadium expansion itself wasn't a bad decision. It costed us about 40 Mio Euro but brings annual extra revenues of about 7 Mio Euro. That is more than enough than we need to cover financing for the expansion. What broke our neck were zillions of stupid transfers, paying beyond reality salaries (at least compared to German standards), the horrible goool.de deal etc..

 

a sad day for german football today...


i was quite unhappy to see a recovering (in terms of form) dortmund crumble so easily at the olympic stadium today...

 

Keith's Response: Manoj, I get where you are coming from. However, I still believe that stadium expansion still wasn't needed. We need that money more right now. Is the stadium not a large part of our debt right now?

 

Keith's Response: It's all right. We just need to put it behind us and move on.

 

DFL confirms: Everything is correct

(Deutsch link)

[26.02.] Sigh of relief at Borussia Dortmund. "This is good news," said Bert van Marwijk after BVB´s final training when he heard of the German Football League´s (DFL) announcement that there is no reason to sanction the Bundesliga side this season, the Westfälische Rundschau newspaper reported today.

Undoubtedly great news, and it looks like the team will be playing in the BL next season, hopefully with this debt restructuring plan well under way.

 

Yeah, we are some how turning around the bad news/good news ratio! ;-)

Still the 14th of March is the date that will decide over our future. If the stadium deal can't be renegotiated we have a real problem. If the deal goes through we are saved for this and next season at least.

Btw, as I see that one of your favourite teams is ManUtd...some days ago a guy on the schwatzgelb.de-forum made a comparison between BVB and ManUtd in 1997 and today. In 1997 we were on top of the world, even won the world clup championship in Tokyo. While it is true that ManUtd was back then already a more or less more massive club than Dormtund and that ticketing and TV revenues are signifiantly higher in UK than in Germany, we had 2 clubs with lots of potential and a bright future.

What did the guy on the forum wanted to say? Well, while ManUtd build one of the richest, most popular clubs of the world, BVB's officials drove the club into a complete desaster. So quality in management is the biggest difference between both clubs.

 

Quite true. We've been very lucky to have the right combination of an excellent fanbase (when we were relegated in the 70s, we still had the highest attendance in the league), a great youth/scouting system, and perhaps most importantly management who wasn't out to make a quick buck but who was looking out for the long-term future of the club as a football team first and foremost. BVB have the great fans who are extremely important but more than anything, BVB needs the latter as soon as possible. While something like relegation would suck, being in the hands of ruthless, callous management is much, much worse. That's the main reason United fans are so opposed to any Glazer bid. The potential for BVB to enjoy years of success both on (trophies) and off (profitability) the field is there, and if the right people come in, the club will get to that point.

 

Keith's Response: Manoj, Man U. have always been and always will be a bigger club than us. I made those very same management comparisons between Man U., Dortmund and Bayern well before you joined our list. I told the others then that BVB would never be as big as Man U. or Bayern because Man U. and Bayern both had been successful over long periods of time, wheras our success was just beginning. I also thought Man U. and Bayern had more "football men" in their managment teams wheras our guys were mainly businessmen. But, you've heard me say that often enough.


Back when Hitzfeld left for Bayern, I told the people on the old list, "There goes our key to success". Naturally, they all thought I was crazy and that Meier and Niebaum were the reason for the success.

None of them will answer my e-mails now........

BTW, I see where you say renegotiating the stadium deal is the key to our getting a license for next season.

If that's the case, why do you tell me I'm wrong when I say the stadium renovations could have waited?

I maintain had we not done those renovations, the club would still be in trouble because of their F#(K!NG IDIOTIC player transfer policies, but we wouldn't be in THIS MUCH trouble.

I still don't believe we NEEDED to renovate what was already and STILL the best football stadium in the country.

This was out of envy over the Arena auf Scheisse (Schalke's Stadium). Tell me again how the stadium renovations are helping??

Because I can't see how they can be "helping" yet they are the major obstacle between us and a license for next season........





Keith

 

It's not the stadium expansion that broke our neck as the additional gate revenues are a good return of investment. Our problem is that we set up a payback plan that was way to ambitious (due to stupidity and Kirch's TV deal). Means that we wanted to repay all the debts on the stadium within 15 years. Had we strechted that plan to 20 or more years, we would have been fine. Not fine at all but fine regarding this deal and our current liquidity. Simple as that.

 

Keith's Response: Now I understand what you are saying a lot better. I agree with what you are saying about the re-payment, but I still believe there was no real need to expand that stadium just then.

If they were worried so much about getting the World Cup money, couldn't there have been a "loophole" to allow Stadt Dortmund or the state of Nordrhein-Westfalen to pitch in some money since the city of Dortmund stands to make plenty of extra money during the World Cup?

I know ordinarily, that's not legal, but when you are talking about the city/state eventually profiting from the renovations, some people can get creative.......

Thanks again for clearing up the stadium issue.



Keith

 

Keith's Response: It's more of a reprieve than anything. The new bosses have to do things the right way now. If any club can come out of this mess, it's Borussia Dortmund. A lot of it will be on pitch performance now........

It's a great day for BVB fans.




Keith