Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by verybdog, Oct 29, 2004.
He is finding the 10 commandments a bit challenging.
Thanks for the concern.
Maybe you can pray for me
Again? But you have to tell me what stupid thing I said in this thread before.
The. Stupidest. Post. Ever. in. This. Thread.
Isn't that nice? Misery loves company. If you are an agnostic, what do you need faith for? Inadequacy, indeed.
That's it???? Come on, show me some faith by answering my question.
Like what? Specific examples on how your prayers got answered, please.
No religion can be PROVEN, since the very core of religion is faith. ie: The belief in things not seen.
If they could be proven, one wouldn't need any FAITH to believe in God.
So do you have to have faith to believe in God?
The lord is good, and he shall provide! This time, he provided rather quickly, actually.
Unless you can logically prove his/her/its existence, yes.
edit: Please note, I'm not belittling (sp?) faith, or those who have it, I'm just answering the thread title.
Well, if you had the time to do a little experiment, you could readily see your proofs.
The 66 books of the Old and New Testament were written over 1500 years and various author counts attribute 40 - 50 authors. The scope is epic, dealing with the very fundamental issues of life. And yet, there is a cohesive wholeness to the Bible.
My challenge: find 40 or 50 literate, educated people and ask them to write a history of Europe since Napoleon. Less than 200 years, without the whole creation aspect. Let them write as little or as much as they want. Let them write in collaboration or in isolation, even with peer review of their articles if they want. Arrange the articles in any order you want. Translate the collected works into 20 languages, and then back translate (just for fun). Then, sit down and read your opus. Does it make sense? Is there any sense that these writings belong together? Would it have any power to change anyone's life?
Well, Scripture answers the affirmative for those three questions. That suggests to me a power beyond what human beings are capable of. That power is God, working through humans, known as the Holy Spirit.
Dude, you really have no idea how the Bible was put together, do you?
I say this with all sincerity. It seems as though, whether you outwardly would admit it here, you are really struggling and searching spiritually.
To that end, I'd humbly suggest taking some time off from this thread and truly looking into the answer.
Start with what one person mentioned, the book of Matthew and keep reading the New Testament. Ask God to give you the answer personally as to whether your question can be "proven". Ask Him, and keep asking. He'll answer.
OK, I'll bite. Tell me how the Bible was put together.
Pretty amazing, eh, Nic?
Big Red, can you do that again?? What is your next prediction?
Blessed are the Typesetters.
It was much worse than you describe.
It was put together by committee.
dawgpound2, I just don't know why Mike Segroves doesn't want to help God convert more poeple into Christianity? All he needs is to show evidence.
Mike, I'm still waiting for your answer.
I know, I know, that's why I'm so impressed with it.
But that's a fair representation of the New Testament. The Old Testament evolved over 600 years. Very different from the Council of Nicea.
The old testament was probably first written down in about 700 B.C. It also went through a good deal of editing, as at some point the "authoritative" versions of Jewish thought ran in Greek. (Alexandria once had the largest Jewish population in the world.)
As for the Bible itself, there was, in fact, a committee, almost 300 years after Christ died that determined very carefuly (and likely partially rewrote) the items that would be included in the old testament. Those that did not mesh with the adopted official version were ruthlessly excised, and the Christians were VERY good at destroying literature they didn't like. Historically, much of our evidence of very influential "heretical" movements come from the anti-heretical pamphlets of the orthodox supporters. Once the orthodoxy won, it deliberately and carefully destroyed any evidence of the heresy. (See: Iconoclasm.)
I do not begrudge anyone their faith in God. But the orderliness of the Bible is a really foolish reason to believe in God.
If you think that nature's ability to create 17 million types of beetles is so amazing there must be a plan - fine. But we know how the Bible was put together, and how much divinity was in that process is highly debatable.
Now that's a pretty concise condensation. Much how I feel about the bible thingy.
It was of course our beloved Roman leader Constantine who called this meeting of the bishops, decided among a lot of things what a holy spirit is and mostly decided what Jesus' role in all this was to be. Son of God and Virgin birth came out of this. As well as Nicky pointed out the destruction of the Library at Alexandria and other pertinent documents.
Most of the doctrine that was founded during that meeting is still the dogma of orthordoxity now.
Just a little aside from that, In general during those days an unmarried female was considered a virgin until she was married. So, in those terms there were virgin births. (And slingshot marriages ) There are records of Joseph and Mary's marrage and Jesus' and his brothers births. Nothing like the dates the church would have up believe, they arranged the dates to cover over "Pagan" holidays, just for convenience.
There's a whole bunch of info out there on Jesus and the Davidian conection in his bloodline that really did make him King of the Jews. But the Romans and the Church of the day had the final word on that.
But nothing in my mind that proves Christianity.
Lets not play these games, shall we? My comments aren't based on faith but historical research.
If you'd like your historian to tell you the specific date of when a changing oral tradition was written down, I suggest you give him your time machine.
Well, alot of historian don't believe in prophesy so I guess they would naturally date much of the bible during/after the Bablonian exile. Not that they have any proof